Falconhurst

>You don't need armor skill for her, jedi robes don't use light armor, >they are robes. There are some light armors that let the jedis use >force powers, but due to the high dex i think is better to use a good >normal robe. The Jal Shey Neophyte armor (+3 def, +4 max dex, +1 cha) is the best force-allowing clothing or armor I've found so far and it requires light armor skill. If it weren't for the sucky randomized loot & merchant system, maybe I would have good robes and wouldn't have to train Visas in light armor. I had to simply because the plain Jedi and Padawan robes are not as good as the Jal Shey. I hope that will change later in the game, but unfortunately it is difficult to depend on finding any of the better items that people have mentioned -- upgraded jedi robes, scoundrel Dex+5 gloves, dominator strength +5 gauntlets, etc. -- none of that for me so far. It is tough to make good builds when you can't plan on reasonable items (like good jedi robes) being available.

Interesting. Thanks to everyone for the posts. My point is that of all the NPCs, only two -- Mandalore and Bao-Dur -- have no attributes 16 or above. There are NPCs with 20s, 19s, 18s, and lots of 16s. Bao-Dur at least has attributes he can use, while Mandalore does not. In the context of his colleagues or teammates, the other NPCS (who, I might add, have no such pretentious claims to power, strength, or fame), Mandalore seems distinctly deficient to me. Mandalore's combat attributes seemed low for the heroic overlord of the battle-hardened Mandalorian people. Perhaps not low if he were a run of the mill Mandalorian sergeant or lieutenant, but low in view of what he is made out to be. Made worse by the fact that many of the attributes he has, he cannot use in any meaningful way. But then again, you start the game as the big hero of the Mandalorian wars, the exiled Jedi, at level 1...so Mandalore's build, while I view it as definitely substandard *in the context of his role-playing character* is perhaps not the strangest thing in the game.

>The most likely reason they made Mandalore's stats as they did was they >probably had ROLEplaying in mind and not ROLLplaying. Not clear why they have to be mutually exclusive, however. IMO, having well-designed characters with stats that fit their description and personality is conducive to ROLEplaying. The grand leader of all mandalores with no combat ability over 15, stats he doesn't need, and a dexterity implant that he can't possibly use, is not, as the roleplaying thoughtprocess of the design is not readily explainable. Why attribute to roleplaying what is better attributed to mere oversight in a rush to get an unfinished product out the door?

Level 18 in scout gets you targeting 5 (+5 attack with ranged weapons, but no damage bonus). I'd much rather have precise shot 5 (+8 ranged damage), as I haven't found that my high-level characters miss much at all. I switched Mira over to jedi at level 6 or 7 (I give her 1 level just for stealth), but she ends up sitting around anyway. With her crappy WIS and CHA, she will have almost no force points and few powers if you make her a jedi in the late game. If the +5 to hit with blasters is worth giving up 12 jedi levels with accompanying force powers and points, more power to you. Just goes to show that any tactic will do in a game this easy. An argument could perhaps be made that Visas, HK-47, and Atton have as much or more ranged potential than Mira, maybe even Mandalore too as he can soak up a lot more damage, is harder to hit, and gets a lot more feats. Edit: Dan Simson's FAQ states that Mira "gains feats on the Precise Shot tree for free." In my game, I leveled her up as a Jedi and she did not gain any precise shot feats beyond the Precise Shot I that she comes with. Has anyone found that Mira in fact gets precise shot feats free (not the targeting you get free as a scout that adds attack, but precise shot that adds damage)? Do you get these if you level her up as a scout but not as a jedi? If this were true, it would at least provide a little offset to her being such a sucky character in other ways and would make me think at least a little less poorly of her. Still not as good as Bao-Dur's laser remote or Atton's can't-die feats, but at least something of worth.

>You are seriously underrated some of the non light saber melee weapons in this >game. True, they will never do as much damage as a light saber That's the point. >but I find melee works better than ranged attacks either way. I disagree. Precise shot 5 gives you +8 to damage and -10 to deflect. WS: BP gives another +2 damage. Get a good fully upgraded heavy blaster, dual-wield, and you can wipe out most enemies without ever having to move from your position. And, I don't have dominator gauntlets even for my main character -- let alone for third-tier NPCs like Mandalore. The fallout of a sucky random loot system. Some may like Mandalore on melee, but I find there is little melee use for his numerous feats. Whatever floats your boat, but I think it is hard to claim that melee is always superior to ranged, especially with Obsidian really buffing up ranged attacks with precise shot 5 and nice weapon upgrades. >Handmaiden: With her unarmed combat skills and as a Jedi Guardian, she's >doing as much damage with her bare hands and feet as she would with a >lightsaber (unless you have the best upgrades in there). Untrue. If you get fully-upgraded unarmed skills for her at level 30 (good luck), she gets an extra 8-32 in unarmed damage from unarmed combat and +3-12 from Echani Strike III (level 17). That looks pretty good. Except when you consider that unarmed attack gives you only one attack a round, compared to 2 with a good double-bladed saber. I have DS sabers that do better than 8-32 damage and I'm still only on Onderon with level 20 handmaiden, only they get 2 attacks a round instead of just 1. Because of this, even a low-strength character with a mediocre double lightsaber could chop handmaiden to bits with her highly upgraded unarmed attack. Now maybe with flurry and master speed, unarmed would be okay, but at one attack a round vs. two it's not that great. If everyone else fought on Handmaiden's terms -- stripped and weaponless -- unarmed fighting could actually be pretty useful. But they don't, and I have found little use for it. >3) Mira: I agree with the fact that she's not terribly useful as-is (y'all remember >the first fight with Hanharr...), but giving her the lightsaber finese feat (uses DEX >in lieu of STR for lightsaber attack bonuses), some good lightsaber upgrades, >and pumping implant and headgear bonuses into WIS and CHR, and she's >actually very good. Take ANY character, no matter how sucky, outfit them with fully-upgraded weapons, buff them with the best equipment, advance them to level 20 and spend your points rationally, and guess what? They can turn out "actually very good." Just not as good as the other characters with the advantage of the same equipment and upgrades. As I've mentioned, the game is easy enough that even Mira can be made into a contender against anything the computer can throw at you. So ultimately it still boils down to personal preference, all analysis aside. Like powerful NPC? Fine. Sucky NPCs? Fine. Either way the game is basically a cakewalk from the time you receive your first lightsaber. >[Hanharr] Tack on the third level of Flurry and that's five attacks a round. My main character rarely gets to use all his attacks with a DS saber and master speed because most enemies are dead after half a round (2 attacks). If only KOTOR had cleave like NWN, the extra attacks might actually be useful.

Is there anywhere to report bugs that need to be patched? Is Obsidian even keeping track? I see a sticky in the tech support forum for tech issues, but no such thread for non-tech bugs that need patching. If they don't keep track of these things, the chance for a good patch seems small.

Can anyone comment on this?

I like Atton too. I'll stand by "not the best, not the worst," but have definitely come to appreciate his stay-alive skills. Handmaiden still has a 4-point damage advantage per hit (+2 STR, +2 LS Specialization). Handmaiden, yes, I also use a lot. Bao-Dur, however, offers everything Handmaiden does (Jedi Guardian, Force Jump, more force points, albeit with lower DEX) with a lot more skills and a flying laser remote to boot. I still use Handmaiden as much or more than Bao-Dur because she has a more interesting personality, and bring in Bao-Dur mainly when I need the skills. I am not saying at all that people shouldn't play with certain NPCs; I am simply trying to provide some analysis of the advantages and disadvantages. The game is easy enough, even on difficult, that you can easily beat it even with weak or poorly-designed characters like Mira and Mandalore. The decision of what NPCs to use ultimately comes down to who you like.

>Sentinel 8/Maurader 23 >Lvl 31 1st time through. ???That's not possible. You have to be level 15 before you can get a prestige class, unless you use hacks or cheats. If this is not true, I apologize, but my understanding was that Lvl15 in your base class is a prerequisite for the prestige classes.

One hopes that Obsidian follows the path of Paradox entertainment in standing by their products. Paradox is a Swedish company that has developed some great titles like Europa Universalis II and Victoria: an Empire under the Sun. At the initial release, there were some unresolved bugs...perhaps the developers had been rushed at first, but they listened closely to player feedback and were still issuing patches and updates a full two years after the game had been released. Certainly they could have just taken the money and abandoned the product, like so many other developers. At two years after release, there was little money for them to be made. It was simply an issue of integrity. And what they accomplished was remarkable. With good patches, good listening to feedback, and continued support, turned EU2 and Victoria from good, slightly bugged games into outstanding, timeless classics that met their full potential. I have to admit feeling a little cheated by Obsidian, who released a game that they *knew* wasn't complete. I paid $53 for this game sight unseen, as the author of the article says, because of the reputation of its predecessor. That's the most I've ever payed for a computer game since Ultima VII was hot off the shelves 12 or 13 years ago. Obsidian really owes me a complete game, not an unfinished work in progress. If they finish it six months or even a year from now, I can live with that, but not with product abandonment. Time will tell whether they will take the money and run, or whether they will finish what they started and follow through to make things right and deliver to customers what they paid for. If they don't both Obsidian and Lucas Arts will lose a huge amount of credibility with me and I will never buy one of their products again except on bargain-bin discount shelves.

Hanharr Level 4 STR 20 DEX 13 CON 20 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 8 Points: 55 Base + 1 attribute increase at level 4 (STR or DEX) Balance: +25 (!!) Hanharr isn't really as good as he looks. As a melee-based non-Force user, his STR doesn't make up for what you could get with 1 or 2 good lightsaber crystals. The poor DEX and inability to wear armor ensure that he will take a lot of damage in every combat. The inability to use a number of other items ensures that, while his initial stats look reasonable, that's all that Hanharr offers -- it is difficult to buff him like other characters. I would take most of the Jedi over Hanharr any day. Kreia lvl3 STR 10 DEX 16 CON 16 INT 14 WIS 16 CHA 12 Points: 42 Balance: +12 Kreia isn't really as good as her stats look on paper. Yes, the force bond with your Jedi is nice, but the main character doesn't really need it. Kreia cannot gain any Two-Weapon fighting feats, meaning that she cannot use double-bladed lightsabers at all. This means that her melee ability is much less than most other Jedi, in conjunction with very low strength. She is a good force user, but that is all she is: she is terrible in melee or ranged combat and gets few feats. I find that Visas makes just as good a force user, but has much better melee skills too. Go-To (Level 6) STR 10 DEX 19 CON 16 INT 16 WIS 10 CHA 10 Points: 42 base + 1 attribute increase (DEX) Balance: +12 A decent ranged attacker, but without the combat skills of HK-47 or the tech skills of T3M4. I have found little use for him. Visas (lvl6) STR 12 DEX 18 CON 12 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 15 Points: 35 base + 1 stat increase (DEX) Balance: +5 IMO, perhaps the best all-around Jedi. Although her INT is nothing to write home about, as a sentinel Visas gets 3 skill points per level, allowing her to make a significant contribution. With lighsaber finess she is quite good. Also a very reasonable force user. Even as a LS player, Visas has plenty of force points at higher levels to use level 3 force lightening and other damaging DS powers. Reasonable feat and skill progression. Visas has no armor skills, so I find it necessary to put at least one feat into armor so that she can use decent Jedi robes. Edit: I may need to be a little more modest about Visas. Her CON is only 12, largely precluding her from ever being able to use the best implants (she can get 18 CON at the earliest only at level 28). CHA really isn't that useful. Her only shining attribute is Dexterity, which has some major limitations in TSL. It is the easiest of all the attributes to buff, and it also suffers from inherent DEX bonus caps with almost any kind of armor, including most jedi robes that provide any defensive benefit at all. I still think Visas is pretty good, but still not ideal in some ways. As a non-guardian, she can't get LS specialization (+2 damage). HK-47 (level 6) STR 16 DEX 16 CON 10 INT 14 WIS 12 CHA 10 Points: 32 base + 1 stat increase (STR or DEX) Balance: +2 Haven't used him much, can't comment. Handmaiden (lvl 6) STR 14 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 14 Points: 30 +1 stat increase (DEX) Handmaiden is balanced but her bonus feat, Echani fighting, is all but useless as she will essentially never fight unarmed, except against you. As a soldier/guardian, she gains only 1 skill point/level. Makes an OK jedi but there are better. Disciple (lvl 6) STR 14 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 14 POINTS: 30 base + 1 stat increase (DEX) Haven't used him, can't comment. Stat allocation looks the same as Handmaiden. Mandalore (level 5) STR 15 DEX 12 CON 15 INT 12 WIS 12 CHA 12 Points: 30 base +1 stat increase (STR or CON) While Mandalore looks balanced on paper, in practice he is one of the worst designed characters. He has a DEX of 12 which is completely worthless as his armor, which allows a dex bonus of 0, cannot be removed. As a soldier with no potential to be a Jedi, the WIS and CHA are worthless. As a soldier with 1 base skill point per level, a 12 int is also fairly worthless -- there are much better characters for skills without sacrificing stats. So the DEX, INT, WIS, CHA are all worthless, essentially 8 lost stat points. What he needs are STR and CON which are only 15 even as a level 6 character -- also very poor. Mandalore seems to get more feats than most soldiers, he gets 1 a level with only a few exceptions. As such, the feats are wasted on melee fighting because there aren't that many useful melee feats to take. Obviously he can't compete with double-bladed lightsaber users anyway. So I ended up making him into a ranged character and taking advantage of all his feats to get close combat 2, precise shot 5, master 2WF, and blaster pistol specialization for the bonuses. He can dish out a reasonable amount of ranged damage, the big catch being that with an effective DEX bonus of 0 and the impossibility of augmenting this because of his armor, he is obviously disadvantaged compared to ranged users with decent DEX. I just can't figure out what the designers were thinking with Mandalore. Hard to believe he is the "leader" of the Mandalorians with an atrocious, self-defeating design like this. T3M4 (level 3) STR 10 DEX 15 CON 14 INT 16 WIS 10 CHA 10 Points: 30 base Good for tech skills, not so good for combat, no force. But some of the Jedi (Bao-Dur, Visas, main character) have enough skills that I have found little use for T3M4 outside of the times when you are required to use him. Atton lvl3 STR 12 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 12 Points: 28 base Balance: -2 Although Atton has a slightly disadvantaged stat allocation, his "get up and fight" feat even when heavily wounded is one of the best. I took him to level 7 as a scoundrel and switched him to Jedi with stasis powers. This combo immobilizes enemies, and then he gets a +4d6 sneak damage with every hit from his scoundrel levels. He needs lightsaber finess and has poor strength. Overall, Atton seems to balance out and is a reasonable design. Not the best, not the worst. Bao-Dur (Level 6) STR 14 DEX 10 CON 14 INT 15 WIS 14 CHA 10 Points: 28 base + 1 stat increase (INT) Balance: -2 Bao-Dur would have 30 points if he were level 1-3, but when you take into consideration that he is level 6, he should have gotten the int 14->15 for free with with level-ups as he is beyond level 4. So this is a substandard build by attributes. Yet I find Bao-Dur to be one of the best characters, holding him at tech level 6 and changing him to a jedi. He has lots and lots of skill points, especially if you increase his INT to 16. He has reasonable force points with a WIS of 14 and does reasonable damage with a STR of 14. His CON can be increased to 18 to use the best implants. He make a good Jedi Guardian with DS lightsaber. Perhaps the biggest unique selling feature of Bao-Dur is his remote, which adds additional laser damage. This is almost like Bao-Dur having a 3rd hand. The downside is no Jedi robes. I actually keep him in armor and give him a good lightsaber. He can still heal and use limited powers, but his best use is melee. Mira (lvl 6) STR 10 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 14 WIS 11 CHA 10 Points: 25 base + 1 stat increase (DEX). Balance: -5 points, this is as bad as it gets Mira is completely sucky, very substandard. She can be a Jedi, but I find no use for her. Her unique skill (doesn't set off mines) is fairly worthless. Her melee damage is terrible (STR 10) and she makes a poor lightsaber user. Her CON is low and so she can never use the best implants. Her WIS and CHA are low so she is a poor force user. By far the worst of the Jedi.

- Skills. They did a great job in making skills meaningful and necessary in this game, while they were almost worthless in the first. INT was a wasted attribute in the first game; in KOTOR2 it is crucial. -NPCs. Nice overall. -Cool upgrades -Nice feats, force powers. I am enjoying it more than KOTOR1, but definitely dreading the unfinished ending.

Is loot & random merchant inventory normalized to your level? What I am asking is if I go see a merchant for the first time at level 25, would he have a potentially better inventory than if I talk to him at level 15? Is there an advantage to waiting until you are a higher level -- or is the randomization of merchant inventory independent of your level? Thanks. Falconhurst

In order to provide correct information and avoid further confusion on this topic... I've listed below the implants and items that can be created at a lab station with treat injury skill. This list is comprehensive (I used a cheat to enhance my treat injury skill to over 100. Item Required Skill (Treat Injury) Chemicals Medpack 1 20 Adv Medpack 10 40 Life Support 20 75 Antidote Kit 5 24 Implant Required Skill (Treat Injury) Chemicals Bonuses CON12 implants Reflex Package 8 17 Reflex saves +1 Pheromone Package 17 150 CHA +1, Persuade +1 Cardio Package 26 450 CON +1 Strength Package 35 850 STR +1 CON 14 implants Retinal Combat 5 37 awareness +1, immune to critical hits Lornan 18 150 10% electricity immunity, 5% energy immunity Biotech 27 450 regenerate vitality points 1 Power 36 850 STR+2, fortitude +1 CON 16 implants Bioantidote 10 37 CON+1, immunity to poison Nerve enhancer 19 150 stun, fear, horror immunity Reaction system 28 450 DEX+3 Advanced combat 37 850 Attack +1, blaster pistol& rifle weapon focus &weapon specialization CON 18 implants Strength-D 11 37 STR+1, CON+1 Immunity-D 20 150 immune to critical hits, poison, stun, fear, horror Perception-D 29 450 WIS+2, CHA+1 Enhancement-D 38 850 dueling, improved dueling, master dueling, two weapon fighting (TWF), improved TWF, master TWF Required implant CON requires natural CON without item modification or other bonuses (force mastery, force powers) There is no way to make Universal-D implants or other high-end implants.

I just ran some tests, using the cheat codes on IGN.com (see http://cheats.ign.com/ob2/068/608/608569.html?fromint=1 ) to increase my treat injury skill to 99. And guess what? The highest implant I can make is in fact the enhancement-D (weapon skill) package that requires a treat injury skill of 38. Nothing better than that; you can only make poor-quality implants. The whole game I've been getting all my chars up to CON 18 and buffing my WIS and treat injury to be able to use the Universal-D implant based on misinformation previously provided by some posters on this board in other threads who assured me that yes, the universal-D implant can be made. That is a load of baloney, they don't know, they've never done it, it can't be made. If I am lucky I might find one universal-D implant in the entire game, I might find none, but I sure as heck can't make any. And I have all these characters with CON of 17 and 18 when the CON12, CON14, and CON16 implants I have are just as good or better than the sucky CON18 implants that only give a +1STR/CON bonus or useless weapon feats that I already have or don't need. Foo on lab stations.

>What's the treat injury skill? 30? That's what I'm asking and no one has been able to answer. My treat injury skill with buffs is 35, and I still can't make it. I can see implants up to 39, and its' not there. So it must be significantly higher. How much higher can it be? If most people finish the game around level 26-27, that would put your max base treat injury skill at about 30. Add +7-8 for bonuses of a highly buffed wisdom (including force powers -- mastor valor), other buffing equipment (D-Skills implant for +6, +3 from skills belt), about the highest reasonable modified treat injury skill I can see one getting would be about 50, certainly not more that 55 which would be a stretch that would take a near-max level character and a lot of really good equipment. I can see up to 39 and no universal-D implant, and that's why I'm starting to get concerned. If it's not within the next 10, if it's over 50, there would be virtually no *realistic* way to make the implant. If the implant can in fact be made, as some here have asserted, certainly there should be no difficulty for them to check their games and see at what skill level the Universal-D implant becomes available, and post their finding here.

How high does your treat injury have to be to make it?

I will be sad if it can't be made as I have not found any and I have been buffing my CON and treat injury skills in anticipation of universal-D. After buffing my skills slightly, I see that the enhancement-D package (the one with weapons skills) requires 38 in treat injury. Every D-package is 8 or 9 more than the last. Even if you are level 27 or 28 at the end and have a reasonable WIS and some buffing items, it will still be hard to get much more than that. If Univ-D can be created, the stats required must be ridiculously high. And I'll be very sad if I can't make it.

I talked to Kreia after increasing my weakest skill (Demolitions) but neither my strongest skill (treat injury) nor my weakest skill (demolitions) have gotten any bonuses. Very strange. Another PC bug?

How high does my treat injury skill need to be to create the Universal D? I am level 18 or 19 and have 25 in treat injury, including stat bonuses. The Perception-D implant requires 29. I don't even see Universal-D, so I assume it is significantly more to create. Given that the other implants are fairly weak, I had planned on giving Univ-Ds to all my NPCs and have been focusing on increasing their CON to 18. But I haven't really found any good implants yet. It would be nice to know about what treat injury skill I am shooting for, Unlike the other skills, I haven't found much that increases treat injury. It seems to be pretty much skills + WIS alone.

Yes, Mira is the most crippled of all of the NPCs. Going by weighted stat allocations, Mira only has 25 points (30 is normal). Visas Marr and Kreia both have over 40. Disciple and Handmaiden are balanced (30), while Handmaiden and Disciple are slightly underpowered (28).

I checked again, the grade 2 and 3 droid armors with defense=6 were different types, so maybe the mark 3 plating is better. Still odd that type I armor is better than any of the type III I have picked up.

But I'm pretty sure the D-series strength implant is listed as CON+3/STR+3 on spoiler sites. Here's another problem. Droid Desh Plating (requires upgrade class 1): Defense 6 + dex+1 Mark 2 droid armor (requires upgrade class 2): Defense 6 Mark 3 droid armor (requires upgrade class 3): Defense 6 Mark 2&3 are the same, and a low-grade (1) implant is better than the grade 3 implant. Go figure. Can you say, "rushed?"

in my current game... Fitness implant Required con=12 STR +1 CON +1 Strength-D implant required con=18 STR +1 CON +1 What the heck? I thought the D implant was supposed to be +3/+3. Is this a PC bug? I've been working all my characters CON up to 18 for the D-implants...which suck and are no better than the CON12 implants? What the heck?

I tried another DS point, sending Kreia in to get the reward after forging the will in solo mode. And again, my main character kept LS mastery, and Kreia appeared to inch slightly more to the dark side. Cool, huh? This should be tried more extensively in a variety of settings, but it is significant. First because it is possible to do some DS actions without losing LS mastery by sending Kreia to do it instead. Second because Kreia's offensive powers are mainly DS and it seems advantageous to her to be skewed to the DS even if only a little.