Gromnir

Yes? The police tactics we're seeing in Ferguson pre-date that 2011 press release by several decades. Police were doing this sh*t against protesters way back in the Veitnam era. Assault Rifles and everything? well, actually, yes. is actual the result o' the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Years 1990 and 1991. started as a war on drugs kinda thing. Congress expanded in 1997... counter-terrorism were included as rationale. try searching 1033 program. we could explain, but am doubting that would help you much. in any event, we would still like to hear zor spin the israeli/st. louis connection. we will make popcorn. HA! Good Fun!

please, spell out what you see as coincidence. ... this will be good. give us a sec to first grab our tinfoil hat. HA! Good Fun!

we like a political circus as much as the next guy, but... well, perhaps video is better and it would appear that these kinda videos received significant airtime, and cop organizations beat Perry to the punch by demanding lehmberg resignation. now perhaps prosecutors can come up with alternative reasons why Perry really wanted to remove lehmberg, but lehmberg did a pretty good job o' providing Perry with a plausible excuse, and that is likely all he needs... unless prosecutor got audio/video o' Perry admitting that his actual motivations were illegal. HA! Good Fun!

distilled your entire post down to the essential. rodney king comparison in story link is particular noteworthy as rodney king were 1991. am thinking you need better than once every 20 years to be establishing a trend. given the enormous volume o' police stops that occur weekly, monthly, yearly in the US, the excessive force examples is kinda small. widespread use o' tasers actual resulted in a temporary increase in excessive force complaints. am suspecting cops were perhaps a bit too comfortable with application o' a non-lethal attitude adjuster. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/29/world/europe/russia-jolted-into-action-on-police-brutality.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 yeah, US cops don't seem all that bad by comparison. as an aside... http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/tech/social-media/ferguson-hands-up-igotthetalk/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 is reminding us o' our own anecdotal contribution earlier in this thread. we will note that the talk our father had with us is different than the one many young men get nowadays. we worked at a nor-cal juvenile hall for a bit. heard some odd variations o' "the talk." "don't let anybody punk you." that were most common variation we heard from kids who had gotten advice from their father. mom advice were typical different. even so, whether kids were crip, blood, norteno, sureno, g-mob or peckerwoods, most o' the kids we dealt with were believing that an essential quality o' manhood were defiance, particularly police defiance, and a stay in juvenile hall were a right o' passage. being sent to prison were often referred to as "going to college." the kids we dealt with seemed to think prison were where they would eventual learn their real trade, though the reality were that you could see just how terrified they was when they came back from court having heard that they would be tried as adults. example: asian kid, chinese, had been in juvenile hall for over a year as his case slowly worked its way through the system. he were in juvi 'cause, as he put it, he went along with friends as they stole a car... stole car and eventual fired a weapon at a cop. he had no freaking idea. he thought 'cause he were a passenger during the high-speed chase, and 'cause his co-conspirators would vouch for him that he did not drive car or shoot a weapon, that he would only be facing car theft charges. one freaking year passes and his attorney never let him know that as a co-conspirator he were facing same charges as his pals? the kid were kinda proud o' the cred he got from being involved in a serious crime. we broke our own personal rule and advised the kid; we told him to ask his attorney 'bout what it actual meant to be a co-conspirator. age seventeen hardarse comes back from lawyer visit crying like a twelve year old girl, and we genuine felt bad for him. *shrug* strangest/saddest variation o' "the talk" were from sixteen year old who were in j-unit awaiting trial for a double-homicide. his father had given him the most brilliantist advice we ever heard: "never apologize." big surprise he ended up in trouble with the law, eh? HA! Good Fun! ps visiting days at juvi is why we decided we will never have kids. 90% o' the messed up kids in juvenile hall had messed up parents. messed up kids with messed up parents were reinforcing our naive world view. the 10%... scared us. 10% o' the folks who visited were hard working people who clearly loved their children, and the kids loved the parents back... were no creepy vibe. the 10% coulda' been norman rockwell characters... albeit a bit more diverse. juvi taught us that parenting could be a crap-shoot and we don't gamble.

... is extreme creepy, but nix the facial hair (all facial hair) and josh is looking increasingly like our mother did the first time she went through chemo in the mid/late 80s. she became extreme thin and wan and her hair began to grow back a charcoal-grey color. we see pictures o' josh nowadays and we feel an overwhelming urge to give him zofran and cranberry juice. we did say it were creepy. HA! Good Fun!

Yeah, our officers have the cameras as well. People sue police departments with regularity, so financially it makes sense to have video of every event. the cameras is expensive. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66695-police-arrest-attack-reporters-order-reporters-not-to-cover-protest-in-united-states/?p=1478326 clearly Gromnir thinks the cameras is a good idea, but at $900 a pop, and $23,000 a year to store video for a smallish department, am recognizing that many police departments is gonna need help outfitting a substantial % of officers. for example, many counties and cities in CA is still operating in the red despite the overall improvement o' the economic situation nationally. HA! Good Fun!

am not gonna speak to bester's imaginary statistics for cop corruption, but from a law pov, the US Constitution hamstrings its cops compared to western european countries.... and am not even gonna bother with eastern european notions o' civil liberties. am thinking we mentioned exclusionary rule in another thread, yes? exclusion is not embraced by most europeans, and australia has kinda a exclusion-lite version. exclusion is designed as a deterrent o' police excess as it is a rule that sets guilty folks free. most europeans is more enlightened and has decided that the way to deter cops is to punish bad cops as 'posed to letting guilty folks escape justice. in the US we punish the cop AND set guilty folks free. silly. should be called the excessive rule. furthermore, searches o' dwellings in the US requires probable cause, which is, from a practical perspective, a much more difficult threshold to overcome than european equivalents. euro "reasonable grounds" or "reasonable suspicion" would amount to "barest suspicion" here in the US. ... given Gromnir's profession, we is feeling sheepish to admit it, but more common than a belief that US laws is overindulgent o' police excess, a more common fear is that lawyers may twist laws so that no genuine criminal with enough money will ever be convicted. such a belief is not borne out by the facts, but regardless, the fear that criminals can escape justice 'cause o' wiggle-room in laws is common. in eastern europe, on the other hand, lack o' faith in legal system is due to belief that corruption is endemic as 'posed to institutional flaws that favor the guilty and the rich. regardless, the common American belief that laws and institutions is far too protective o' the rights o' suspects is having more than a little validity. we honest don't know european statistics regarding incidence o' police using excessive force. am knowing that the US is a far less homogenized nation than is typical in europe. is our belief that such diversity makes conflicts such as the recent events in furgeson far more likely than in most european nations or japan. there is also more than a few unfortunate US institutional legacies that has made crime a hereditary problem. nevertheless, we has no genuine knowledge o' statistics to support our assumptions regarding euro police excess. we do know laws though, and bester is ridiculous wrong 'bout laws. HA! Good Fun!

But why there were police officers geared as they are in that last picture? As I can say for sure that there were zero polices in such gear in that riot that I mentioned my previous post or any other riots that there has been in Finland that I know and it is not because of that Finnish police don't have such equipment in their use. again, from the first 2 pics you can see that the riot lines were patchwork and hodgepodge. am betting that st. louis police used pretty much used a kitchen sink approach... am not surprised at all that swat were sent out, even if we agree that it seems to us like overkill. we would also not be surprised if those swat guys were only the smallest % o' total police employed, in spite o' disproportionate screen-time. HA! Good Fun!

to be fair, there is similar pictures from st. louis. unfortunate/fortunate for st. louis, they ain't had riots and am suspecting they were scrambling to put together a hodgepodge force to deal with rioting. that being said, swat teams is gonna be far more photogenic. have media show disproportionate number o' swat is hardly surprising. if peter parker brings the three pics above to j. jonah jameson, which is mr. jameson gonna pay for? HA! Good Fun!

Or we could not assume and just wait for all the facts to come out. May be police used excessive force, may be they didn't. Yeah the guy was unarmed, but he's a 6'4" 290 lbs giant. You can see him assaulting the clerk in the robbery video, anyone would be scared for his life. he coulda been 8' tall and looked like mumm-ra from the thundercats cartoons for all we care. he were unarmed and were a considerable distance away from the police vehicle when he were being shot. unless cops thought brown/mumm-ra represented an immediate threat to the life and well-being o' themselves and/or innocent bystanders, there were no cause to shoot... and we is having a hard time coming up with even imaginary explanations that reveal the necessary threat on behalf o' brown... or mumm-ra. being big is not a valid reason in itself to be shooting people. Gromnir is waiting for full story, but it makes difficult when we can't come up with even a hypothetical that reasonably explains the situation. HA! Good Fun! ps am gonna conceded that if mumm-ra or mr. brown had the eye of thundera in their possession, the situation would be complete different.

wow. is this an age thing again? so, if all pictures o' ferguson police were shown as above would you believe that once rioting started, st. louis and furgeson police would be kitted like mr. friendly from our pic? once riots start, and we get images o' swat and gas-mask bedecked stormtroopers, somehow folks thinks that is typical? you get that this is, thankfully, an extraordinary situation, yes? some foreigners watch far too many movies... or is just very gullible. HA! Good Fun! ps our pic is of a baltimore cop, but ferguson standard uni looks very much the same. hell, typical cop uniform virtual anywhere in US is gonna be similar.

the media is predictable. some folks wanna blame slant on liberal media, but am thinking that leftist motivations is almost a negligible factor in the current situation. news reporters wanna report news. especially nowadays when even print media is too slow for most folks, the cops/city reticence to speak makes their side o' the story less appealing for media outlets. "So the police are now saying the reason the shooting victim was stopped was because he had just committed a robbery in a convenience store. Looks like once again everyone has jumped to conclusions and we've been fed a narrative to advance an agenda." keep in mind that the even if the young men were stopped 'cause o' a convenience store robbery, that won't change anything for pretty much anybody. an unarmed black man were shot by the cops. Gromnir has tried to come up with a scenario that makes the shooting reasonable, and am having difficulty doing so. for instance, lets assume that the ferguson cops did stop to talk with two robbery suspects and as one cop were exiting the car, michael brown shoved the door closed on the police officer. am gonna assume that the police officer grabbed at brown as he were forced back into the car, and brown then wrestled awkwardly with the cop through the car window. now lets assume that brown reached for the cop's gun and there were a struggle over the weapon. heck, lets assume that the cops gun went off while brown and the cop were tussling.... though not tussling like j-lo in out of sight. anywho, gun goes off in car.... and then what? see, assuming that both brown and dorian johnson were unarmed, how does we get from shot going off in car to unarmed brown being shot multiple times some 35' away from the police car? am trying to imagine a plausible reason for such an outcome and am having difficulty. the Best argument we can come up with that benefits cops is that brown were aggressive and assaultive and were fighting cop for his gun. the gun goes off in car. does cop loose control at that point? does cop for some reason think that brown has a weapon? as brown runs away, unarmed, is he an immediate danger to nearby citizens? lord knows we weren't taking dorian johnson story as gospel. heck, our experience with law enforcement made us think that the most likely scenario were that brown were being an arse and combative, but that still don't get us to an explanation for brown being shot. ... the lessons Gromnir were taught about dealing with cops is actual the opposite o' what many kids from rough neighborhoods is taught nowadays. "Don't let the cops, or anybody else, treat you like a punk." is not necessarily a race specific lesson neither as we has seen same from white, latino, samoan and other ethnic groups... but again, far less from assians. even if we assume that brown were instigator, how does he end up being shot multiple times given that he were unarmed? even so am not surprised by anything we has seen outta ferguson so far. and bester not visiting US 'cause o' cops doesn't strike us as much o' a loss for him or the US. 99.9% o' all our cop interactions has been somewheres 'tween slight aggravating and very positive... and given our past job(s) and 'cause o' where we has lived, we suspect we has had 'bout 100x the contact with law enforcement than the average American has had. HA! Good Fun! edit: am not sure what happened in our post, but wrath quote sudden became a non-quote dropped in the middle of our post. weirdness.

am apologizing ahead o' time for length o' the post... skip if you don't want yet another boring Gromnir story. We didn’t have heart-to-heart talks with our father. We didn’t get advice about girls from him. We didn’t learn about how to fix a car or even ride a bike from our father. We didn’t learn much wisdom from our father. In fact, the few times he offered us advice, we were old enough to realize that most times he were full o’ crap. Am recalling that before we went to school in California, he warned us ‘bout not getting involved in what he perceived were the good-for-nothing lifestyle o’ his imaginary west coast… am gonna leave out the details ‘cause otherwise we just make him sound like an ignorant a$$hole. Nevertheless, the old man did give us one bit of sage advice that struck us as being valuable. … Am gonna give abbreviated version ‘cause our father were a proponent o’ volume and repetition and actual message we got were this multi-hour beat-down o’ our will. In any event, Gromnir, in spite o’ getting good grades at school, had a minor problem with authority. *gasp* Am guessing few obsidian boardies is shocked by this revelation. In any event, we knew that our high school vice principal had sent a letter to our home regarding our attitude problems and so we were prepared for unpleasantness when our father, letter in hand, called us into the kitchen to have a talk. At least he hadn't removed his belt. The discussion did not go as we expected. Our father didn’t seem much interested in altering our behavior at school. Our father were so worried enough ‘bout something else that he seeming forget or did not care ‘bout our school behavior. The old man wanted to tell us ‘bout how we should behave around cops. “Doing what the cops tell you to do does not make you a punk.” The discussion our father had with us lasted literal hours as _________ repeated self into incoherence. Nevertheless, our father were clear worried that our problems with authority would translate into problems with the local constabulary. Perhaps our surprise at not being confronted with our shortcomings at school was the reason Gromnir was a bit more attentive o’ our father’s advice regarding cops. _________ shared with us some personal experiences from his days as a youth on the rez youth as well as from his time in the military. He wanted us to understand that cops were mostly good people, but it were in our best interest to assume that they were all d*#%s who were secretly trying to ruin our life. It would only take one cop who were having problems with his wife or were racist or were simply a genuine no-good a$$hole to mess our life up both short-term and long term. The neighborhood we lived in were not all that bad as far as crime were concerned. Sure, our neighborhood in Chicago were statistically horrible for violent crime, but we could avoid most difficulties simply by staying away from drugs and gangs. We were a star athlete, so some o’ our early difficulties with our fellow students in high school were lessened as we were insulated from school problems by teammates. _________ seemed surprising aware o’ our school situation and so he focused on potential issues with local cops. “Eventually, a cop will bust your chops for no other reason than that you are an Indian. Grow up and deal with that fact.” __________ explained that when the day arrived when we were confronted by a racist cop, we would have choices, and those choices would be harder based on whom we were with at the time. Our father told us that “being right is meaningless when the other guy has a gun.” One day, perhaps, Gromnir might join the military and fight for our country. One day we might take a stand on some social issue that could bring us into conflict with the cops. ___________ recognized that getting shot or ruining your life for the right reasons might be a conscious choice we would need make, but he told us we wouldn’t be doing so today, next week or for the next few years. Our first priority should be to grow up, and getting shot or arrested would make that a far tougher proposition. “The racist cop wants you to give him an excuse to arrest you, so if you want to ruin his day, be polite.” ___________ told us that being a smart-ass to a cop didn’t prove that Gromnir were tough, it proved that we were stupid. The cop with an agenda wanted us to be disrespectful. The racist cop wanted us to fail to obey instructions. The racist cop wanted us to give him an excuse to “twist” us up and drag our too-smart-for-our own-good butt down to juvenile hall where we could spend the weekend locked up with rapists, murderers and mentally unstable near-adults who outweighed us by +50 pounds and out-toughed us by a mile. Our old man knew us well enough that he could see what would be making our inevitable d#@&% cop confrontation(s) most dangerous. “You think you are funny,” he said,”but your tongue is twice as fast as your brain.” ____________ told us that the most dangerous cop encounters would be the ones that included our friends. Our father foresaw that if we were with a group o’ friends we would be far more likely to shoot our mouth off; we would mistake foolishness for bravery. “If you say anything that makes your friends laugh, apologize immediately. It may be too late at that point, but do it anyway.” We got lots more advice ‘bout cops, but most were repetitive. The stuff that stuck with us were a couple stories he shared. One such story involved an encounter with SP while he were in the navy. Our father were a bit drunk one night and he shot his gob off to some racist SPs that were looking for an excuse to arrest a minority or two. They goaded him into a confrontation and he obliged. There were words exchanged and actual some blows thrown. __________ shared with us what fun it were to be tossed in the brig and to be thinking that his military career over and his future ruined. Our old man let us know just how scared he were and just how dumb he felt when he realized that a couple ignorant rednecks had successfully managed to ruin his life. Lucky for our father, his commanding officer, a black man, eventually stepped in and smoothed the situation over as is only possible in the military. Our father thanked his CO, but the CO claimed he hadn’t helped our father, and he made damn sure our father understood that he wouldn’t get any help in the future. “If you can’t show me you are smarter than those idiots who dragged you in here, I don’t need you. Got it?” Dunno if our father actual proved he weren’t an idiot, but he never made the same mistake. As for Gromnr, years later we would have our own run-in with police. Ironically, we were in Danville, CA when we had our first serious racist cop moment, not South Chicago. Yeah, we had dealt with cops in Chicago, many times in fact, but we had always been polite and so we avoided problems. It were an affluent bay area neighborhood where our resolve actual got tested. Details ain’t all that important, but we could see almost immediately that the Danville cops were looking for an excuse, any excuse, to bust us. We were a scholarship athlete at Cal, but we weren't a star. Is not as if coaches woulda’ shown up to jail to get charges dropped for Gromnir’s sake. In point o’ fact, our authority issues had created a bit o’ a problem ‘tween us and our position coach. Am expecting the coaches woulda’ loved a chance to drop us and get their schollie back. Lose scholarship woulda’ meant we would not have been able to pay for school at Cal. We would have needed to go back home to Chicago, and we likely woulda’ had a criminal record following us. Is hard to imagine just how different our life would be today if we had given a racist cop the opportunity to destroy our world. *shrug* Is it fair that minorities in the US is likely to eventual deal with a racist cop at least once in their life? Nope. That being said, there is typically a chance to avoid a serious confrontation. “Doing what the cops tell you to do does not make you a punk.” Is likely the only good advice we ever got from our father, and is too bad that so few young, male minorities learn this lesson… well, unless they is asian. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/08/12/why-the-police-shooting-riots-in-ferguson-mo-had-little-to-do-with-ferguson/ HA! Good Fun!

am far from being a cop honk, but the media is spinning multiple stories all at once. we is getting news that rioting is going on in ferguson and st. louis... oh, the horror. situation is sounding tense. *chuckle* we get the media hyperbole about "war zones" n' such. at the same time, reporters is complaining that they personal is being harassed by cops, cops who were asking everybody to leave an establishment. sure, the reporters weren't complying with police directions and were instead filming the action, but hey, there weren't no real need for reporters to leave. we will share a Gromnir anecdote later, but until then, we believe the following video might be kinda a wave o' the future thing for cops in the US. yeah, is gonna be expensive, particular for some communities that is already operating in the red these days, but we believe the body-cam would useful even if cops would initially be resistant to the idea. http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2014/08/14/pkg-police-body-cam-machado.cnn.html HA! Good Fun!

yeah, see, that is exact the issue we had with da:o on console: it played like kotor. *shudder* kotor, for as much as we enjoyed the game, the combat were extreme lackluster. am knowing most folks will yell "sacrilege," but when kotor were released, we noted that kotor reminded us o' ps:t in many ways, good and bad. bad combat were one o' those attributes ps:t and kotor shared. kotor combat were visually more appealing than ps:t with lightsabres and force leaps and none o' those ridiculous ps:t cut-scene spells. nevertheless, we found our self wanting to skip or speed up combats in kotor as they were kinda an auto-pilot experience for us. point is that compare to kotor does not diminish our problems with da:o console combat. HA! Good Fun!

I'd be surprised if they offer one. For a heavily marketed major release, Demos probably deter more purchases than they attract. I, for one, tried the DA2 demo for about 15 minutes and concluded that I had very little interest in buying the game. That said, as you've mentioned a few times, everything works out better if you wait a few months after release to decide whether you want to purchase a game. A few months worth of reactions from PC players and fan-made gameplay videos are probably better than a demo for the purpose of making an informed purchase decision. after nwn, we started waiting til after first major patch to purchase pc games. we were kinda ambivalent 'bout me3 before its release, and then we got busy with work. eleven months passed between release o' me3 and our eventual purchase o' that game and we don't regret the delay. as you noted, we has beat that horse to death so we won't belabor yet again. nevertheless, we will observe that our expectations regarding price drop o' me3 after eleven months did not match reality. is not that we is poor, so pricing is rarely a major factor in our purchasing behaviors o' games, but am gonna admit we were wildly wrong regarding the price reduction o' me3 after eleven months. we had assumed that ~ one year o' wait would result in 50% savings. dunno why... that were how we recalls the price plummet o' typical pc game software. am thinking we ended up getting me3 at 80% o' original price, or maybe a tad more... 85% perhaps? in any event, we did not get the savings we expected even if we did get a better and more stable product. HA! Good Fun!

am not wanting to get off topic by talking 'bout robin williams, but our favorite robin williams moment were from relative late in his career. "Weapons of Self Destruction (2009) "Williams' last HBO special from is a package of his polished, recent thoughts about politics, sex, a merciless appraisal of his alcoholism and an anecdote about appearing on German TV which shows he did not mind taking risks even as he aged. He is asked, "Why do you think there's not so much comedy in Germany?" to which he replied, "Did you ever think you killed all the funny people?"" is from a rollingstone article, but the quote has been posted many times. it takes some chutzpah to make such a comment to a german tv host on a german tv show. HA! Good Fun!

so, this is no longer a robin williams thread? fine. Gromnir is old. twitter and facebook strike us as inherently narcissistic outlets. we recognize that there is many dirtbags in the world. if you voluntarily open yourself up to the world and say, "look at me," you should be expecting some o' those dirtbags to respond according to their character. we see no need for some kinda institutional oversight to chastise the predictable crude and obnoxious behavior o' dirtbags, even extreme crude and obnoxious behavior. now, there is the potential for actual illegal activity via these social media resources, and we agrees that when behavior becomes illegal rather than simply distasteful, offenders should be punished severely. that being said, violations o' good manners and polite behavior is not the kinda violations that need institutional correction. nevertheless, as we said already, Gromnir is old, perhaps too old to understand. HA! Good Fun!

It didn't look like there was friendly fire or attacks of opportunity in that gameplay. I wonder if either of those can be turned on in a higher difficulty setting? those were options in earlier da games... da:o at least. da2 is kinda a blur to us and is amazing how poor we recollect it. and no, da2 were not as bad as some suggest, but the developers did cut many corners with stuff such as recycled maps... thought sherman had set way-back machine for mid 90s and we were playing diablo at times. what we would genuine like to see is pc gameplay. honest. Gromnir could not play da2 and da:o on our console. no doubt some folks thought console gameplay were okie dokie, but we had camera invariably pulled back to max distance at all times on pc and we found keyboard interface to be far less awkward. am genuine wondering what it is about the damned da franchise that all gameplay video pre-release must be console only. da2, thankfully, had a gameplay demo so we could actual play da2 before release. any chance for a da:i demo? we don't follow bio boards much nowadays. also, we listened to commentary from gameplay trailer and we heard the bit 'bout 200 spells and abilities... which honestly don't sound like all that much when spread 'cross multiple classes and possibly including unique npcs. does 200 sound like a small pool to other folks or 'bout right? is even worse if they do the 3 tiers for each unique ability nonsense and the pretend they gave us 3 abilities by doing so. am not kidding 'bout our continuing disappointment regarding the lack o' dedicated pc gamplay video. if we were paranoid we might suspect that pc gameplay is identical to console. HA! Good Fun!

or 1) paizo and obsidian is figuring out how to pay for a traditional crpg development. card game may, in part, be a source o' future paizo/obsidian electronic game funding. 2) success o' card game venture may very well determine scope o' future projects, so is no reason to allocate significant man-hours to hypothetical future projects at this time. 3) obsidian folks that would be needed for a potential future crpg may be looking at many sleepless nights in the next few months as obsidian tries and gets PoE released on time... and considering that PoE represents obsidian intellectual property, we suspect that feargus gots great interest in making PoE a success. etc. we can come up with many more "or" that don't require obsidian to be working on other more compelling projects. we see smiley, so we suspect you realize this, but we don't mind stating obvious in case some folks ain't similarly aware. HA! Good Fun!

Show me a single example where Paizo has failed to deliver a hyped product. As I said above, there is a quantifiable reason why people take their word as gospel. you honestly believe that every paizo product has been matching hype? we has seen any number o' their products that got criticized by fans. recent deity products for pathfinder is Nothing save reprints o' the material that were included in the adventure paths, but with some new art. more than a few criticized empty hype for what amounted to repackaging o' old material. and this ain't just paizo doing pnp products, is it? the reason why they would need team-up with obsidian is 'cause the products envisioned is not like past paizo products. hype for possible future games when all we actual know anything 'bout is a card game? again, am not criticizing card games. the obsidian/paizo card game might be groovey-kewl... am sure all the kids will be playing it on their smartphones. disney, for example, seems convinced that the mobile games is where the money will be for the star wars franchise. dunno. regardless o' popularity, Gromnir is not the target audience for such things. regardless, making a card game today doesn't give us much reason to buy-in to any kinda hype for a theoretical paizo/obsidian crpg for which we know Zero details. HA! Good Fun! ps am done here. until there actual is news, we don't see a reason to beat schrödinger's cat into a formless paste.

have you read the entire agreement? lord knows if we were a developer or publisher in an extreme volatile industry, we would make possible to get out o' deals that possibly turn sour. please note that atari had actual d&d license for years and for various reasons stopped making crpgs. oh, you can give us reasons why no crpgs were made? So What? things change. paizo circumstances can change just as did atari's. the press release says nothing about crpgs in any event. HA! Good Fun!

so a vague internet message board statement that paizo wants to make a crpg with obsidian is having more relevance than an official press release from folks such as nokia? does that sound right to you folks? am not thinking paizo is a company with public traded stock, so message board ramblings have even less significance for paizo than would nokia. the pnp rpg maker could claim that they is hopeful to at some point in the future raise the titanic so that they could play games from decks o' the sunken leviathan as part o' future paizo day celebration and it would have the same significance as the crpg comments from the paizo ceo. if no crpg is made, worst you could say o' paizo is that they had intentions o' making at least one crpg (vague descriptor in this day and age,) but failed to do so. so what? we would look forward to a paizo/obsidian crpg collaboration, but we got nothing to be enthused 'bout save the possibility that such a game could be developed in the future? is that it? the only thing in the box is the card game. play schrödinger's cat thought experiments is not having much value as far as we can see. ... the horrible thing is that we got loads o' folks on these boards who justifiably complain 'bout certain publishers and developers generating empty and meaningless hype for their games and yet 'cause is obsidian, folks here is willing to generate their own mystical hype for a maybe game for which you know absolute zero. weird. HA! Good Fun!

anything beyond the card game is hypothetical. HA! Good Fun! It is mentioned as long term with multiple projects both in the press release and by Pazio's CEO. which means absolutely nothing. honest. we don't know anything about the future projects and any deal can be renegotiated at any time. serious folks, other than the card game, there is nothing to see at this time. hell, how many games has bis/obsidian actual contributed serious man-hours to that eventual got cancelled? more than a couple. for folks to get excited about hypothetical future games we has Zero details about is striking us as a bit silly. *shrug* is a card game with the possibility o' complete unspecified projects down the road? huzzah? be excited if you will, but let's not blow this news out o' proportion. HA! Good Fun! It is a long term agreement. It's confirmed that there will be multiple projects, actually, it really doesn't mean anything. and yeah, the card game can get cancelled, but at least they is working on it. the electronic game industry is extreme volatile, so even games in development is frequent cancelled. how much less excited is we about future, maybe, possibly projects that we have zero details 'bout? is possible that crpg never happens and obsidian does a series o' card games? yes. is possible card game sells horrible and obsidian and paizo go different ways? yes. is possible Gromnir can come up with another dozen possibilities? yes. ... serious. this is not particularly noteworthy news unless you is interested in the card game. HA! Good Fun!

it could be the bestest damn fantasy card game., evar. our interest will still be zero. pathfinder is a pnp rpg. am interested in paizo 'cause o' pathfinder. the only games by obsidian we has had interest in is crpgs. we didn't even play ds3 'cause ds franchise is too actiony for our tastes. is not as if we is saying card games is for losers or somesuch nonsense. is simply an observation that the teaser news were intriguing 'cause o' the rpg experience o' paizo and obsidian. so, fact that the reality is a card game is... meh. HA! Good Fun!