NikoBolas

I'm excited for PoE, but I have some concerns regarding the attributes and what they do, specifically related to combat. Intuitively, without looking at what they do in the game, if you told me what each stat affected I would list something like this: 1. Might - Melee Damage, Destruction of Objects 2. Constitution - Health Points, Body Resistances 3. Dexterity - Ranged Accuracy, Armor Class These physical stats are shared between PoE and DnD, so I suppose most people would form a similar list (with Might being a renamed Strength). 1. The differences between what I would expect Might does are Might also contributes to healing, which is a minor bonus, but more importantly Might affects everyone's damage (not just Melee)! Wow, that is a cool attribute. In fact, I'd say it's probably OP. If all Might did was affect damage, I think it would still be a worthwhile stat, though I suppose Support characters (Priest, Chanter, etc) could dump it. I imagine that the healing mod was added so that support characters would also have to invest in Might. 2. Constitution does affect health, but not healing which feels a bit weird. Constitution is unlikely to be a dump stat in any case since most characters need decent health thresholds. It does exactly what I would expected, by giving a bonus to Fortitude Defenses. 3. Dexterity has been dialed way back from DnD, where it was probably the strongest attribute in the abstract affecting many skills, Armor Class, and all Ranged Accuracy (which included many spells). In PoE, Dexterity only affects Accuracy, but does so for both melee and ranged characters! Wow, again that feels very powerful. It's not what I expected, but it's an easy thing to remember and fairly intuitive (after all, hand-eye coordination being important in melee battle is pretty intuitive). It also affects Reflex Defenses as I would expect. 4. Perception - Awareness, Initiative 5. Intellect - Spell Damage, Skills 6. Resolve - Spell Defense, Healing These are the mental attributes, though only Intellect looks familiar if we continue the DnD comparisons. Perception sounds like a subset of Wisdom with Resolve being a mishmash of another subset of Wisdom and a bit of Charisma. 4. Perception does affect awareness, but that is a difficult thing to convey in combat. I'm not sure if it currently affects Initiative, but I hope it does. What it does actually do is provide an interrupt bonus. This is a new thing to PoE and therefore probably difficult to evaluate. Compared to the physical stats, this attribute feels weak to me. If you asked me how important it was for all characters to be able to interrupt other characters, I would say low. Maybe I'd want one of my party to be especially good at it, but since I'd imagine there are defenses to interruption, it seems silly to invest halfway into it on a number of characters. 5. Intellect does not affect spell damage, that is actually Might since it affects all damage (again, Wow good stat). However it has been given a very cool ability that feels intellect-y, it affects the size and duration of abilities. That's pretty neat. I like this stat, it seems very "johnny" to me, a Magic term for people who like to create intricate combos instead of just winning the game. In other words, this will be a fun stat to experiment with. How would a high intellect Monk play? What abilities are in the game that I can abuse with this? It seems really fun and strong. 6. Resolve does affect Spell Defense, in that it is used for Will Defense. It does not affect Healing, which feels off to me. Anyway this is like the new Charisma, which was the notorious dump stat in Dnd. Few characters needed it and in combat-centric sessions it was mostly unused. That said, in non-combat sessions it could very important and it was difficult to imagine pulling off any interesting politics or intrigue without a decent Charisma. Anyway, in PoE it has been buffed to encompass more than just presence and social ecumen. In combat it affects Concentration, which is probably tied to the Interrupt from Perception. That sounds cool but it also is hard to evaluate how useful both concentration and interrupting would be for the majority of a party. Again, I'd expect this on a few niche characters that have long cast-times or abilities where they need to concentrate for long stretches at a time. So what are my favorite stats? Might and Intellect sound the most fun. Might makes bigger numbers for everything combat-wise, while Intellect gives me larger radii to move around. Dexterity and Constituion both sound important, and not-dumpable. Most characters want to hit in combat for the big numbers to appear, and you don't want anyone dying too quickly. Which leaves the difficult to evaluate pair, Perception and Resolve. Interrupting and Concentrating sound like high-level concerns. At low levels, combat is usually more basic and lower level threats don't tend to have things that need to be interrupted. I also probably don't have powerful spells or abilities that require concentration to use, they either cast quickly or I ignore choosing them since typical low-level combat is very brutal. One strong hit against any character can usually kill it in DnD. So, what could buff these stats? Well right off the bat I'd say Resolve could take either Healing from Might or Ability Duration from Intellect, but that in turn makes them more dumpable for a different class of characters (Support could then dump Might AND Intellect). Ok, well maybe if Resolve had a passive bonus? It sounds like a character with 18 Resolve should definitely have more mechanical bonuses when they take a lot of damage compared to someone with say 8. The Will bonus probably covers fear and running away. What about something like a Second Wind chance (or even ability)? I suppose something like that could be linked to a Talent though. As it stands it is difficult for me to feel like I would need a party with high resolve, though I cannot say the same for Might, Constituion, Dexterity, or Intellect. Perception is the other one that stands out as not being that important. Let's say I'm building a fighter. His job is to soak damage, deal damage, and hold the line. He doesn't need to be aware of what's happening and I don't necessarily need him to interrupt (or do I? That's the trouble with new mechanics). Anyway, what if Perception affected combat movement? Intuitively if that were a stat it would feel like it should fall under Dexterity. But Dexterity doesn't need help being a non-dump stat. I mentioned Initiative before and that's definitely something that could help make it important, after all a party that always acts after the enemy is not set up for success. So, here's my ramblings about the attribute system, my own intuition from a long-time DnD player, and some ideas to improve PoE so it's the best it can be. Any thoughts?

I like this idea. I would really like to see a game that didn't have a multitude of races precisely because the diverse nature of both human culture and natural evolution give a large breadth to what is possible. Still I have faith that there will be quite a few mature themes/ideas explored in this game.

It's more important for me that treasure makes sense. In other words, if the boss of a dungeon has a sword in his treasure chest that he could have been using but wasn't, that is a disconnect. Similarly, if I defeat a handful of gnolls wielding pole-arms, it would be nice if their treasure reflected that. Also, wolves and bears shouldn't leave behind piles of gold. Hidden treasure should be hidden for a reason! Maybe finding a hidden map, which leads to a treasure that you could find in other ways (stumbling over it, conversations at an inn, etc). I don't like pixel check but I do like the sound of attributes contributing to item finding.

I agree balance is important. But its difficult in a crpg to give people what they want. For instance, if I encounter something that is not related to the main story, I can save and attempt to fight it. If I lose, I can reload and probably not try again unless I was very close to winning. There is essentially no penalty for trying. In an actual pnp game, this is rarely case. I think a game that did this exact thing beautifully is FFXIII. There are many areas with regular monsters that are more difficult than the other regular monsters, usually they are avoidable. However, due to the nature of 13's system, you can take a long time to win a fight you shouldn't be attempting, you just get less rewards than if you were more properly prepared for the fight. I'd like to dream that they can find a combat simulation that encourages mid-combat strategy changes that are the difference between winning and losing. As opposed to combats that check to make sure you have the right equipment or spells memorized ><.

I like achievements, though I would prefer how to get them to be concealed until I beat the game the first time.

Hello, this is my first post and contribution to Project Eternity. I just watched Josh Sawyer's response to project eternity's attribute system and its pros and cons on youtube (reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMrUo9K9_-s&list=UUormzAJ-LQ2frWbBLcqxIfg). It got me thinking that it would be neat to have the ability to handicap yourself in minor ways, for instance -2 Reflex Defense on a character that otherwise has a good Dexterity score to both intensify the experience and allow more unique concepts into the game, mechanically. These "flaws" could also be present on certain NPCs which could make them more layered. I suppose a caveat to this system would be to lock it until the player has already beaten the game (after all, you shouldn't be handicapping yourself until you really know what you're getting into). I'm just curious if most people think this would be extraneous and ultimately not useful, or if they were flavorful enough, something players would be interested in. I suppose that personally I would enjoy such a system, especially if each "flaw" had at least one payoff at some point in the game (ie- some quest/event/NPC that recognizes your condition within the game). Also, I'd love to hear a developer chime in on whether this type of thing was under consideration or not. Finally, I'd like to point out that something I loved about Baldur's Gate was that each NPC had something unique, rule-breaking mechanically, that was generally not overpowered but just interesting. Layers like this can give a lot of texture to replayability, in my opinion.