Osvir
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Posts posted by Osvir
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but it would be nice to have a dungeon floor be a challenge, not just individual encounters.
I agree. This is actually great.
I feel that resting is something that should be available, but I feel that as a game mechanic a la "replenish all of my spells!" abuse/spamming needs to be limited. And I feel that Resting needs to serve a bigger purpose than that it serves in the IE games; most profoundly found in titles such as Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale.
I think limiting it to every 16 hours is just as awkward if you ask me. I can tell you I can sleep much, MUCH sooner then 16 hours. Made more possible if you go out and exert your self all over the place like some adventurer would. Either way I think there should be some kind of limit on actual sleep, but I already went into that in my above post.Limiting it to only 16 hours is awkward in a sense, but it is also logical. From a roleplaying perspective I can imagine my guys resting after the fight, eating something, perhaps drinking some water to keep themselves fresh before heading onwards towards the next encounter. I don't need a button that practically does nothing in-game for me to experience this.
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It's a nit, but the idea of spells "recharging" is an odd one. In reality it's your connection to the magical ability that's recharging.
Perhaps a spell represents some type of arrangement of connections that somehow gets unfolded when you cast the spell. The connection then needs to return to its original form before it can be tapped again. Higher level spells are more complicated connections and, consequently, take longer to fold up again. Mayhap, when your mind is in a quiescent state, the folding can proceed more readily. That would suggest spells are restored more rapidly outside of combat than in. It would also suggest spells are more difficult to restore when the mind is dulled by fatigue, or by toxins or poison.
This directly makes me feel connections with this:
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61021-long-term-wounding-and-why-poison-mechanics-sucks/
So, with this above thread in mind... what you are suggesting/flirting/hinting in your post is that when you are "fatigued". It could in turn effect how long it takes to "recharge"/connect with magical forces? I like the general concept
Another thing that springs to mind is the idea of letting Mage only recharge spells if he is completely under no effects (Meaning that he is well-rested, no de-buff's or effects wearing his mind down out of combat and instead he can meditate and focus on the connection with the magical affinity)?
Also, on fatigue:
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Met my wife playing DnD at a friends house. Would be nice to play with her.
AWWWWwwww nerd love <3
I'm trying to get baldur's gate trilogy working for me and my lass - I'm right there with ya.
Multiplayer is a little buggy with BGT, you need to use Windowed mode when creating a session (in the menu's), when you are in the actual game you can turn into Full Screen (I think it's something like alt+enter as a hotkey to switch). I also want to suggest Game Ranger. Widescreen mod does not have support for multiplayer.
EDIT: Also <3
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Sorry for double-posting/bumping, I can't edit any of my posts.
Fatigue Thread:<M.I.A can't find it, looked around for a little bit but got stuck in another thread instead>
Just wanted to fill out this because I found the thread
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60903-alternatives-to-vancian-or-cooldowns-other-suggestions/
Why did I want to link to this thread? Several hours has passed since I began writing this Pack-A-Mule thread and the inspiration and flow of ideas I had back then seems to be gone, remembrance as well.
I think it had something to do with fatigue and camp site features fit very well into each other? Or something? Anyways, yes sorry again for bumping/double posting.
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But what about permanently having a wound, or a disability? What if the enemy chops of your hand, and now you can no longer use it or re-attach it.
Let's for instance say that you are poisoned, and because you didn't heal it in time you are now suffering from poison sickness. Add in another dice roll which reflects "coughing", which can interrupt your means of swinging that sword or casting that spell. The benefits you get is that you are, however, practically immune to poison effect henceforth.
"Bitten by a vampire? Become a vampire"-esque.
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So I've read an update, particularly that part
And though any wizard may prepare several tomes, an inexperienced caster is not capable of channeling power through the log-thick, anvil-heavy, dog-eared grimoires of wizened archmagi. Such novices must alternate between more modest selections, relying on their less demanding spells and talents when they are unable to call upon their tomes.and I was wondering.
How do you guys feel if there would be a possibility of creating your own spellbook? For example, remember how Nameless One made his own through a series of quests and dialogue, and even was commented by a mage at Sensorium how crappy his spellbook looked. How about a possibility of carrying multiple spellbooks, or grabbing enemy spellbook after his death? Maybe that's something to concider with idea of specific "suits" of prepared spells.
Of course maybe I'm just on the wrong track here and stuff would be done differently.
This is great :D
I generally like this whole concept of fatigue (and Breathe as well, mentioned in some post).
EDIT:
My idea of a hybrid system thing I guess:
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60996-abc-magic/
Also something else:
Emotional about their characters and their mules.
I couldn't resist linking to this one xD
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I am really for the top one (Yes because it adds more realism).
With this feature, the game could be focused more on injuries and skills/perks surrounding it (How to heal that fractured bone, how much time it takes and so on and so forth). I would love to see it and definitely what I would want.
But then my mind spinning and I start thinking about variety, one game I might want the Hardcore perma-death outcome, where I need to think every action through and manage all the tactical aspects, but then again I want to perhaps play a more casual playthrough wherein I don't need to bother or worry about managing all of my wounds. Then again I would like to have consequential wounds and scars...
Heck! What about loosing an arm in-game or even an eye?
Can character Portraits age/become scarified as the game moves along? (Wolfenstein and friends of the genre I remember had a strong representation of your character being low on health, his face would actually be visually bloody the lower his health).
This is something I would have liked to see in Baldur's Gate.
Last words is that I really don't know, but I'll stick with the difficulty option for now.
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Instead of repeating myself I'll just give you links.
ABC Magic:
http://forums.obsidi...0996-abc-magic/
Resting can't be abused, and it would purely be "free" to Rest, so you don't have to. Player choice.
Pack-A-Mule:
http://forums.obsidi...95-pack-a-mule/
Edit: I wrote "mandatory" when I meant "free"
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What can I say bro, I'm a dreamer
this doesn't mean I expect that any of what I or anyone else says here will be taken into consideration at all. I just like to dream.-
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2) Most of the rest object to the idea of "8 Real-Time hours must pass before spells are restored, and nothing the player can do will speed this process (no "rest", for example)". This doesn't seem to be what the developers are going for, but it hasn't been explicitly disclaimed by them, and it is arguable that this is what they are doing. The object here is that this "punishes" the player for poor play via creating tedium -- and this is a bad thing.
8 In-Game/Lore "Real-Time" Hours. Which would be somewhere between 10-30 Minutes of your Gameplay.
10 minutes for a quicker pace
30 minutes for a slower pace
Isn't that were the two groups (generally) fall here about the cooldowns.
Some want more time, more contemplation
Whilst some want less time, more action
This to me sounds like a Difficulty Option/Options Screen thing more and more.
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I am specialized in another weapon. It doesn't matter though, because I have no reason not to go buy more arrows. There is no consequence for my poor preparation. I can simply stop what I'm doing and walk back to town.
Are you willing to risk it when the Tomb is later re-fortified and more difficult? :D you could continue exploring with the other weapon (Scimitar?) and defeat the Skeleton Lord, with some tactical decisions after all no?
EDIT:
And I wouldn't be lugging around 6 suits of armor and 8 battle axes. If I went into a tomb to find a skeleton lord, kill everyone on the first floor and simply leftAnd since I'm going back, I'll take back everything I can carry. I will actually gain money when I run out of arrows because otherwise I would probably leave a lot of the junk items on the ground.Pack-A-Mule:
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Other: Critical miss or hit could have countless endless effects. For post-game release modding (if there will ever be anything like it) this is also great.
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I see that more and more it is leaning towards "I hate the idea of cooldowns" but little arguments to why?
What would be the better solution? Isn't everything cooldowns?
Time is a cooldown in itself.
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If you, ogrezilla, went into a cave with bow and arrow. Would your arrows be limited or unlimited? In this case, what is most atmospheric?
Again there was a long discussion on "bad preparation" before heading into the dungeon in the Cooldown thread yesterday, and if you run out of arrows, are you not specialized with another weapon? Are there enemies in the cave that has arrows maybe? Etc. etc. Otherwise I can think of having a "Unlimited Ammo?" option button included in the game.
It's all preference. Sometimes I just want unlimited ammo (In Baldur's Gate I've got the mod), sometimes I do not.
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All Limited Ammo
In which you have to pick up/buy arrows, bullets, pellets and similar to reload your ranged weapons (crossbows, bows, slings, guns)
+ Atmosphere
- Can become a chore (Although hardly an argument as you can easily buy arrows from a store... or make them yourself)
Unlimited Ammo/Limited Special Ammo
In which you never run out of standard ammo (A regular arrow will never run out, and either you imagine a story that your character is an Arrow maker and makes arrows out of everything or he is a devious mage-pretending-to-be-Ranger who can summon arrows when no one is looking).
+ You never run out of standard ammo. It is great.
- Not as much atmosphere
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with using cooldown timers
Timers? I have yet to read anything about timers. What about an invisible cooldown?
Taking a real life circumstance: As a human, you have some purposes that you want to fulfill every day. You need to eat. Time is invisible. "Cooldown" is just a mechanical robotic term for the instance of "cool word of time passing". If I'm not wrong, that's per definition is it not?
"Cool down" = "Chillax. Calm down. Wait a while."
http://forums.obsidi...r/page__st__180
Good evening all,
I'd like to take a few minutes to discuss a few things. The goal/vision of this project is to capture the magic (old school feeling) of the Infinity Engine games. Many of the long time folks at Obsidian are just as big of fans of old school RPGs as you are. We are not interested in "capturing the biggest market" or making a game that "caters to everyone" for this title. We just want to make the best possible PC RPG we can, that lives up to the vision I stated above. Those games did very well for the publishers of their day, and since we don't need to deal with a publisher and are going direct, we are more than happy to ship this game to a smaller fan base, i.e. you.
This bears repeating. We want to capture the OLD SCHOOL feeling of the Infinity Engine games. We know the lack of cinematic dialogue or using an isometric camera is not enough to accomplish this. This obviously doesn't mean we are making a BG or IWD clone, however. We want it to feel like those games... with improvements. Not to stream-line it or dumb it down, just to make it better.
I'd like to share a good example of this philosophy from the 3rd edition D&D rules. In the olden days, classes in D&D leveled at different rates. Rogues leveled faster than everyone else and wizards were the slowest, others fell somewhere in the middle. This was built into the system and each class had different xp requirements for each level. Without getting into why the old systems did this, most people hated it. Of course there was a die-hard fan base that thought it was great. When WoTC released 3rd edition they got rid of it... or did they?
I'm using a pen and paper example here because not all of the CRPGs that used the system implemented this. If you played a rogue and disarmed a trap (without anyone aiding you), you got extra xp. Looking at the rules as written (RAW) in the DMG, that character overcame a CR challenge alone. Doing so gains quite a bit of XP and if the DM allowed this, caused a rogue to level much faster than any other class.
Conversely, the Wizard received the Scribe Scroll feat for free at 1st level. If you wanted to be ready for any situation, you crafted scrolls and memorized your core spells. Crafting scrolls (and any other magic item) cost XP, sometimes A LOT of it. Result: every wizard I ever played, played with, or DMed, leveled slower than everyone else. This was now a player choice to level slowly and he was rewarded for it. IMO, this is MUCH better design that accomplished the same thing in most cases as the old system.
These are the types of designs we are striving to implement into PE. We want this game to feel like the games you loved, while not implementing clearly poor design choices. Much like our community, many of us on the team are passionate about certain aspects of RPG design. I tend to fall into the hardcore, old school, group. Part of my job is to be the voice for that community (I've championed turn-based combat on multiple occasions). I know what you guys don't want. Josh and I have discussed this on multiple occasions and I have every confidence in his vision.
Lastly, nothing is currently set it stone. Game development doesn't typically work that way. This will be an evolving process to get us to the goal of making a great strategy system, that feels "real" if that makes sense. Josh's vision of combat will get input from a lot of folks that have a lot of experience in playing and making RPGs. We'll get it right.
What I'm ultimately trying to say is that Obsidian got this
In the meantime we can only speculate what it could mean. I have a distinct feeling that this "cooldown" system will fit in authentically with the world.
EDIT: However I missed one of the great points here, what are the Pro's as well as the Con's?
http://forums.obsidi...0996-abc-magic/
This is something that I personally would like to see, or at least considered.
So I'll use that as a basis, as that is also my own kind of grasp at an improved Baldur's Gate system. We don't exactly know what Obsidian wants, and I am perfectly fine and enjoying the secrecy as well as the aspects that they shouldn't tell. With this being said, it is hard to make a Pro's and Con's list when we don't know what Obsidian has in mind.
Feel free to come up with suggestions for more pro's and con's.
Insta-Cooldown (Resting):
What we see in Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, as an example.
+ You can be constantly fresh and loaded.
+ Gives atmosphere
- Easily abused unless limited.
- Random encounter's could be more often and more dangerous.
Insta-Cooldown (After/Before Fight):
Seen in Penny Arcade On A Rainslick Adventure 3 (messing up the title I'm sure), and it works very well for that type of RPG. P:E isn't going to be such an RPG. Yet I can see it be implemented into this type of RPG as well, but it doesn't feel right personally.
+ You are always ready for a fight.
+ Encounter's need to be more of a puzzle with only one solution, to be a challenge.
- Just one solution?
- Which can be great unless you want the atmosphere and feeling that (roleplaying-wise) you can't be ready for every fight every time. You get tired, fatigued. At some points you need to rest.
Turn-Based Cooldown:
Seen in Disgaea I believe, when you do an ability afterwards a number appears on the spell icon "13 Turns Left". I believe Heroes of Might & Magic follows the same rules, so does Fallout.
+ A very controlled tactical system. Chess-like.
- Chess is hardcore, unfortunately. Many enjoy it, but would they play 300 games of it in a row?
Time-Based Cooldown:
Seen in games like World of Warcraft and other similar mass produced games. The cooldown is only 3 or 4 seconds in many cases, has there ever been a game with a 10 minute (600 seconds) cooldown on your first level 1 spell? I would say Baldur's Gate is that, after about 10-20 minutes playing it I need to rest to replenish spells (Past Candlekeep).
+ It is simply great for many reasons, mainly atmosphere.
- It is misunderstood I believe as something only common in action games. Or I am endorsing it so much that I am blind to the consequences
Help me out.
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I think my own personal dream AI is somewhere along your suggestions/ideas soulmata.
Where you enter a bar, and depending on your alignment/reputation, the thugs of the place might even come up to you and scuff you around "Ya think ya are something huh?" kind of thing, or where they might suddenly attack you just because they are drunk and violent *shrug* a living AI
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An idea, mostly Magic but I included some resting thoughts too:
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I read somewhere that, I think Sawyer, is looking to make a realistic fantasy game. In my ears that sounds like Obsidian wants authenticity. A sword arm is only strong enough to do a certain attack, and not a magical glowing attack. I get a feeling that graphically this game will try to be as atmospheric and deeper than a hack n slash generic game. For this I think that the game will be unique in it's own way, although may possibly imitate many other games in the genre and generic settings.
It will most likely not be a generic game, even if the setting would be.
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Lore-ishly I just improvised. I'll bring you to attention and tell you that I outright wrote the Lore thing only to influence the reader, to give some back story and make my post about Magic a little bit more interesting.
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Too much in one thread and the title is basically wrong, it implies this is THE thread to discuss everything with Obsidian. A better title would be "my suggestions for PE".
That is only because I'm discussing this at this forum, I've had these ideas for some time and would like to discuss them. I also want to hear your ideas, on things that you wanted in Baldur's Gate (i.e "Something is missing in this experience"), what you enjoyed about Icewind Dale. Now this doesn't mean that Obsidian needs to implement anything. I like ideas
of course I wish to influence as well, but that's not up to me to decide whether I do or do not.Also, I split it up into three different threads here:
Pack-A-Mule:
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60995-pack-a-mule/
ABC Magic:
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60996-abc-magic/
Exploring the World:
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Specifically about loot interface... Something easy but reasonable--minimal drag-n-drop, stuff like that in terms of usability.
Minimal drag-n-drop, more click-n-receive. Like always, a "Loot All" Hotkey/Quick-Button is always nice, but as I am getting a feeling that this game (P:E) will be more of a depth-wise, tactical experience, I get a feeling that something fitting to that would be the more "intelligent" and "scholar-ish" approach will be taken towards it.
In Diablo, as an example, all the loot falls out of the corpse and you click the items and "Get".
In Baldur's Gate you click the corpse and you are taken to another (although small) looting interface wherein you click to "Get".
The system in both are the same, Baldur's Gate just has one extra short session of it. Instead of getting a small screen at the bottom, telling you what the corpse is holding, I am more curious to the possibilities how it could be expanded. What can you do with it to make it feel more atmospheric, as well as interesting and effective "ease-of-use"?
Another interface could be an "Equipment" screen, but for the slain creature/bandit, much akin to the Equipment screen of your character.
I vision it as the Baldur's Gate Equipment screen, in this case:
1, You click the corpse
2a, A window, in-game, is displayed in the game with the BG Equipment screen.
2b, additionally, your Equipment screen could be brought up side-by-side for easy access and "trading" equipment between corpse and you.
3, Hovering your mouse pointer over the helmet, you'll get a "DA:O" transparent information/details box what the Helmet statistically does.
4a, One left-click and the Helmet automatically is thrown into your limited inventory.
4b, One right-click and you automatically equip it.
5, in case you did not equip it in 4b. Go into your inventory, equip/inspect further/maybe better on your Thief etc. etc. the macro-management stuff
EDIT:
maybe there's a "campfire" button on the UI that allows you to drop a camp somewhere on that map and the mule automatically stays there.Waypoints! There could be Camp Sites scattered about the world, mechanically they would be like "Waypoints" in Diablo II, you have to find them before you can use them. These points could also be points in which you can Fast Travel from Camp Site to Camp Site (Without going to the "edge" of the screen).
Remember the Scenario Sawyer brought up and asked us about what was good about the experience of walking back to camp?
I can totally see how this Camp Site thing could be directly combined with that.
There is a camp fire in Baldur's Gate, right outside a Goblin cave (in Tradeway North). For some reason I always rest by it when I'm in that area.
There could be different difficulties on it too, in hardcore mode the Mule can be slain, but in Casual/Normal the Mule always flee's.
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Okay, well then this thread can be locked/archived or removed or discussion of just what we are discussing I s'pose "Too long of a thread".
Or I can tackle what I wanted with this thread, what would you guys like to see in a modern day cRPG that hails influence from D&D and the more "advanced" and tactical classical cRPG's that built the genre. What would you see as something creatively new? Do you have any vision, had any dreams of something you'd like to see implemented? Or am I the only who dreams of how RPG's could be presented and built? xD *forever alone*
What have you encountered in a game that makes you think "if it only worked like this" and what exactly are those improvements you thought of? What is it that you disliked, that was more of an encumbrance for your experience?
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NPC's and Fame; Are you the Chicken Chaser or the Returner of Time?
Different reactions from the world, even if you are an incurable Light White Shining Paladin from a Shining Bright Academy Castle "How to be THE Paladin of Holy Light!". NPC's will comment on your naiviteé of trying to make the world a better place, only to later confess they were wrong when you indeed succeed. Maybe some people will move away, close their windows as you pass, if you play an awfully evil character.
With the option of being more mysterious in your approach, where you can be an evil super villain, but no one knows that you are that person. Basically the NPC's are talking about what's going on in the world and they will react to how you change it.
Exploration and Research; Lore
Before entering a Dungeon, will there be indication, an Outpost Guard who sees you walk into the "Forbidden" or "Dangerous" area, runs after you or yells at you to stop. Tells you off the danger's and the things that lurk in these places, giving you an indication (from a roleplaying perspective) what might be a good idea to bring with you. So preparation is important beforehand, but I understand that not everyone plays like a Scholar, even if you prepare without foresight or research you can still manage as well. Just because you don't have the Dungeon Counter-Spells doesn't mean it should be impossible to finish.
Dungeon's should be able to be tackled in many different ways, Tactical Wise. No Linear "Go from point A to point B" but expanding upon the idea that you can use the environment to your favor. So you don't have a Mage in this particular party, and you are in a dungeon where many enemies are more resistant to physical attacks and vulnerable to magical attacks, does it mean that this Mageless party should have a harder time, or an impossible time, challenging this dungeon? I lean way more to the foremost and think that the latter is stupid.
In the same way I want to be able to explore a dungeon without a Thief scouting ahead all of the time, looking for traps, opening all of the locks and being the utility guy. I want to be able to get through the traps by quick thinking, reaction. Perhaps one notices a traps and hence then the party will be more careful generally in this dungeon and the party will gain "Trap Insight" bonus for the duration of the Dungeon, which means they will avoid more, notice more and take less damage from future traps.
Pack-A-Mule:
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60995-pack-a-mule/
ABC Magic:
Pack-A-Mule
in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)
Posted
The question is... would you be able to resurrect it at a Temple? xD
Exactly what I was thinking though, the Mule would both be a nice Gift to your inventory and adventuring, but it could also be a difficult tactical encumbrance. The price you pay for an extra "party" member. Of course, the Mule should also cause more bandit random encounters as you fast travel through the world (as in if this would have been a feature in, per say, Baldur's Gate).
I'll work on something in photoshop. Basically something along the way of this:
http://downloads.spellholdstudios.net/scrn/81-1208086572-1ppv2_screenshot.jpg
You see the entirety of the slain creature, in this case a Human. If hovering the mouse over the head, you would see what Helmet etc. etc.
I want it all! too!