Osvir
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Posts posted by Osvir
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So I've been thinking, what is the soul?
This topic might have popped up before (I didn't check all the pages). But I generally want to discuss what the soul is, not some mumbo-jumbo Magic system. But from a Lore perspective countered with a Real-Life perspective.
To me, Soul is everything that has to do with Music/Dancing/Laughing/Loving/Hating for instance (Breathing/Living... Being. "I Am"). Soul/Creativity is the same thing to me.
But in a fantasy setting, what kind of role could the Soul have? Would it be a ghostly Aura that encompasses every living being? (Plants, trees, heck even rocks, clothes, insects, humans. Life). Is the Ghost-mode in World of Warcraft an implication of "The Soul" and how it could be used in a game? (I think it is, and when World of Warcraft came out everyone was shrieking "YOU CAN BE A GHOST!! Awesuuum!!!". This might have degenerated over the years, but don't forget the shadows of the past).
What happens to the Soul when the "Vessel" is gone? Per say, if your character dies, could your Soul then move on and fit itself in a new character?
In case of a perma-death, could the Soul be the answer to the "New Game+"? xD lol
Would your 2nd character benefit from your 1st character dying? In a sense they already have the same Soul (You <3) but I am thinking if you could benefit from it in-game, having some sort of benefit to it.
EDIT: If you thought the above was Mumbo-Jumbo, the below is Mumbo-Jumbo Deluxe. I know I said I wouldn't get into those aspects but I'm just free-styling my posts. I might intend them to be something when I write the first paragraph, but it kind of transforms by itself. Flowin'
What the fuzz are you thinking Osvir?
I create a character, but I didn't make him proper. He be dead after the first two or three encounters.
Now I get the option to create a new character from scratch or create a new character with the same Soul as my previous character.
Eh, so what's the benefits?
Statistically your character could get +1 (or some other absurdly weak low number) to attack towards the creature/being that took you down. Heck maybe you won't even get anything at all except your own insight.
That's all?
Well, roleplaying-esque (depending on how far you get into the game) there could be rare banter's. Companions that you met last game that react "There is something familiar about you" type of deal~ Quests that react to you~ "Hmm strange, I was sure someone with a similar Soul like yours passed by here before to carry my message to [point B] before...".
In Planescape: Torment, if you died, you would always get back to the Mortuary (wrong? I only died early game a couple of times before I learned to do better, I don't know if this persists throughout the entire game). Could this be something that Obsidian is aiming towards? Where, when you die, the game doesn't restart but you restart from a "Checkpoint"?
With the Soul being in focus here in P:E, would it be unlikely to see something like this in the game?
Thoughts?
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The Soul and Magic hmm...
It sounds odd, the thought of casting Magic to...
I throw magic missle and for every use I charge up my souls potensial power, when charged up enough I can use it to throw a fireball.So basically I have the spell to cast Magic Missile, by throwing 3 Magic Missiles I unlock the ability to cast 1 Fireball. If I choose to throw the Fireball all of my spells are reset and I'm back at only Magic Missile?? It could work.
The weird thing is that I feel that Magic stems from the Soul, not the other way around. Though just as such I feel that the Soul is Magical in itself (I'm spiritualistic). When I think about the word "Soul" I think about "Singing", "Dancing", "Laughing", "Writing", "Drawing" and so on and so forth.
Incantation Magic = Singing
Ritualistic Magic = Dancing, Drawing (Tattoo's on the body, scrolls)
Pure Magic = Laughing, Loving (Stay away from a Wild Mage laughing! Just saying)
For the sake of it, this is the one I enjoy the most.
Incantation/Singing:
Drawing upon the Soul you sing to get in tune with Energy and can cast Magic.
Mechanically I don't know how, because I can sing abundantly as much as I want. My voice will get hoarse after a while unless I replenish with simple water. Well that is unless you have like "You can throw X many spells per in-game day, regardless of the level of it (Unless High powered Apocalyptic Magic which can only be cast when certain circumstances have been met)".
This is a link to my general idea of it. The Soul that I write about in there is simply a "draft" a "sketch", improvised writing out of the top of my head to make my post more interesting:
http://forums.obsidi...c/#entry1221644
EDIT: I'm unsure how if I feel about the Soul being an important Lore mechanic or an actual gameplay mechanic...
2nd EDIT: xD because with the Soul I start to think "Where does the Soul come from?" and that's Einstein mathematics. Energy.
So we've got Magic stems from the Soul, which stems from Energy. Which in itself stems from Magic, which stems from the Soul, which stems from Energy. I can go on forever. Energy is Abundant, constant, every moment every second, every blink. Like pictures, frames. This is all spiritualistic gibberish.
That's the jist though, why I think there should be some regeneration to Magic. Some constant flow as to how and why I gain the power to cast spells.
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Fog of War was great for Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale.
I would not want to have it like people are describing NWN2.
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Resting/Sleeping, in real life:
* 12-13 hours is about as much as we can sleep (tops) in a row
* I personally get a headache from this much sleep
* My own record of being awake is 52 Hours before totally, entirely, completely, passing out.
Resting/Sleeping, in IE:
* No boundaries
* I can be awake for 4000000000 hours
* I can sleep for 4000000000 hours
What actually happens, in IE on my playthrough:
* Awake for 3 hours
* Sleep for 8 hours
* Awake for 3 hours
* Sleep for 8 hours
* Awake for 3 hours
Mechanically it isn't even plausible. I dare anyone here to try and sleep this entire weekend without waking up without a headache, are you sensible for the sake of science you'll report scientifically back here properly.
I want to see a limitation to the rest function.
IE Games
08:00 AM: Just woke up, ready for some adventuring!09:00 AM: Gyaargh! This armor, the mage, everything is sooooo~~ heavy and tiresome. I need to sleep...
03:00 PM: Mmm what a good rest.
04:00 PM: Gyaaargh!!! Zzzzz....
12:00 PM: Midnight already????? Pfft adventuring into the night! Have at thee night!
In this scenario/example, one in-game day has passed awfully fast. I am just outside Candlekeep and all of this managed to happen.
What I am suggesting (As well as TrashMan and many others I think)
08:00 AM: Mm just woke up, time for some adventuring!02:00 PM: Mid-day... pheeuuwee, need to rest up.
04:00 PM: Alright, let's move on.
10:00 PM: Zzz, time to get some rest
Example: In this game I managed to get to the Friendly Arm's Inn and leave it. In this scenario you wouldn't be able to rest, maybe it would be limited to a 2 time click in a row then a 6 hour in-game cooldown.
Doing it every night for a 3 week journey would make any travel take an absurd amount of time.Sleeping for 16 hours and being awake for 8 hours, every day, for 3 weeks straight is going to take it's toll as well.
What is most authentic?
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I think rogues should be focused not on combat, but on their other abilities: pickpocketing, picking locks, finding traps and so on. Just like in Baldur's Gate and PST. In combat, rogues could backstab enemies or fire arrows from the distance rather than be on the front lines. It seems that the devs took the opposite route though, they want every class to be combat-effective. It makes sense in games like IWD where pure thief class was almost useless and you had either to dual-class or multi-class.
Not useless. This is preference.
That's what made IWD and all those games unique, that's why we disagree on many things here.
TrashMan liked to play his Thief as an utility character (I'm just guessing), scouting, finding traps, checking if there's enemies ahead and so on. Set up the tactical aspects. Access the situation, how many enemies are ahead? Traps? Can I position my characters in an ambush? Many times I used my Thief as bait to lure difficult enemies into a most welcoming critical hit from my Fighter.
So did I. I always scouted ahead, found enemies. Stragglers my Thief would backstab and take down on her own.
Others would give the Thief a more backstabbing and DPS role, or a long-range fighter. Some would dual-class.
To my understanding the Rogue will function in several different positions and roles. Just like I get the feeling the Fighter will too, and the Mage. So this is something that most likely will land in the "what do I prefer to play?" corner.
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I think of Scandinavian Skalds when I hear the word "Bard", poets and musicians, Lady-Killers, charmers who can make any woman feint, trickerish, cowardice except when there's a fight that matters. Kind of sounds like a Rogue towards the end.
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Arghh... waiting for potions of Pepsi and Coca Cola and all their imagined benefits. Or what's their name, all the guano based energy drinks. Fatigue? Have a Red Taurus.
Red Bull gives you wings, literally.
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This thread made me wonder:
"What if an advertising company got a hold on one of these?" *shudders*
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Couldn't a barbarian be a fighter?
Couldn't and elf be a human?
Couldn't a human be a dwarf?
EDIT:
http://en.wikipedia..../Rogue_(vagrant)
A rogue is a vagrant person who wanders from place to place. Like a drifter, a rogue is an independent person who rejects conventional rules of society in favor of following their own personal goals and values.Reading this Wikipedia makes me feel more like a Bard is a Rogue, specially after reading con artist in there somewhere xD
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Yes, correct. What Hypevosa said. You just need 2 computers and an internet connection. If you want mods there are several places to check out (Spellhold Studios, The Sorceror's Place, Gibberling3 and others). The easiest method in my opinion, is to find the latest version of the "BiG World Setup". It manages pretty much the process of downloading and installing mods for you (I've got about 20 GB's worth of mods, all from a simple item to quests, NPC's, areas, monsters, AI improvements, world map and BGT of course).
How did you get the Widescreen mod to work with multiplayer?
What OS are you on? (I'm on Win 7, known for it's issues with Widescreen+Multiplayer)
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I say limited ammo, add that bit of tactical micromanagement. However, this is only if you can hold a large stack of ammunition and not have it take up a lot of your inventory.
Granted you would have the inventory space to carry more than a quiver or two.
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typo
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I hope it's slow too, or adjustable. Part of Difficulty Option?
There's a mod for Baldur's Gate Trilogy which allows you to lower your exp rate (I lowered it so low I got 1~5 exp per enemy slain xD).
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Couldn't a Rogue be a Bard though? Seems to fit in the spectrum of it.
Fighter/Priest = Paladin?
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I would want to see an easy comprehensive Class Kit Editor where I can completely from scratch make my own Class. This way I wouldn't have any trouble with what kinds of classes I want ^^
EDIT: Something I feel all IE games should've featured... although what would be the point of stretch goals if that existed?
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I'll just summarize my own ideas.
The least abuse-able I can think of in a couple of words:
* Magic regeneration at a constant flow, 1 point at a time. In other words, the spell's power is regained after in-game hours at a very slow and/or adjustable levels (difficulty) of speed.
* Make resting limited "You are already well rested, you can not rest now" or in a grumpy way from character "Nooooh, I've slept enough already! Leave me alone!" ~pun
* No sleeping in dungeons/Unless floor entirely cleared.
* More Difficulty Options (Not just "Easy", "Medium" or "Hard" but some depth to some sort of customizable difficulty)
* Mobile campsite
* Wilderness camping de-moralizes and City or Inn sleeping replenishes morale
* Riskier Camping
I would love a system wherein I play Baldur's Gate just like it is, just like I played it. Like many of us played it, moving around, clicking on targets to talk with them and so on and so forth. The only thing I really miss is that constant flow, that "regeneration". Maybe not a regeneration that heals up all of your Magic Charges (Memorization or whatnot) instantly, but over time and you get only 1 at a time.
Cumulatively the more you wait, the more will regain. To compare my idea with Baldur's Gate:
In Baldur's Gate I would fight an enemy, save, rest, save and regain all my spells. "Cool I've got all my spells, continuing my journey!"
In my idea I would fight an enemy, probably save, continue my journey and get back the spell memorization over time. Come night, I'd sleep. I would have progress, a constant flow of my characters journey without halts or restrictions to the story... but it would come at the price of being restricted mechanically. I don't know how long an in-game hour is going to be in-game or if there is even going to be a time system but I imagine one in-game hour taking about 4-5 minutes.
EDIT: Typo on page 2~:
[typo]
Can you rest here?
0 = False
1 = True
[typo]
Now imagine the game is side-scrolling, and for the sake of it that the quotes below is the game-screen.
Degenerate problem:
11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111This would be Baldur's Gate, you can save & rest at any point in the game.
Restricted solution:
11111111110001111111111000111111111100011111111110001111111111I would say that Final Fantasy series deploy's somewhat a system like this. You can save/rest anywhere on the world map, but you can't save in dungeons (unless at a save/rest points).
Checkpoints:
00000000001110000000000111000000000011100000000001110000000000Diablo II and similar employs something like this.
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There's a difference between logical distinction and aritfical distinction who purpose is just to make sure things are different.
For example:
Only rouges can dual-wield. You can put that restriction in. It would make rouges unique, wouldn't it? But we all know it's just stupid.
Agreed.
Which of these two are most appealing? DPS or Utility?
1, From a role-playing perspective, wouldn't Rogue's be adept at survivalist skills such as herbalism, cooking, sneaking, alchemy, guile, lots of stuff that were in the Witcher I think. If anyone reads manga, the Wind Sword dude from Berserk comes to mind. An acrobat, flexible and quicker. The Rogue would be the Utility.
2, The Lore and Class of Asssassin depends on your character being trained to be an Assassin. The role of the Assassin would also be different from that of the Rogue's in my opinion. And an Assassin could possibly be deadlier than a Fighter, this is it's discussion in itself. Unlike the rogue the Assassin is trained to kill, in combat practices. A DPS Rogue for those that want it basically.
-end
Thinking about it more, when did Rogue's and Thief's become associated with being Assassin's? That's 3 different classes/definitions by the way.
The role of the fighter is more bearing, sturdy and enduring in any occasion (historically). For it's era (that's been confirmed) soldier's would be raised harshly, as infantry men. Few there would be, vagabonds, who practiced the "Way of the Sword" outside of War. In almost any case I can think of (historically as well as in fictive lore) the warrior/soldier/infantry is almost always quick, adept and strong, but the Rogue is always dodgy, gets in dangerous situations but escapes with dumb luck. Enlistment would be mandatory and forced upon you.
Thinking about it more, not having backstab as a hardcoded in-game mechanic doesn't sound like a bad idea.
edit-
spelling, wording, additional
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Yeah Rogues or Assassins, dont need a Backstab, any atack done from the sides or back of any class should do more damage.
Rogues and assassins should have other things like Dirty fighting poisons, traps, other kind of ways to deal damage, scape damage, but clearly should not be a miracle damage sourse that other skilled fighters dont have.
This is what a rogue is per definition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(vagrant)
Is it possible to change the class title entirely to Vagrant instead?
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Fair enough. I'm not sure where you can get from there though - I guess you're just trying to point out that the system used by a game has a large bearing on the enjoyability, even if the plot, characters, etc are the same.
Yes
To be honest I don't really get why there's so much discussion about preventing rest. I mean, what's the goal? Just to make the game harder? I don't see how it would do that, but I do see how it could do the opposite.Let's look at Baldur's Gate: at some point you've fought through as much as you can take, you have no spells left, and your party has 15 HP between them. At this point basically your only option is to find somewhere safe to rest, and do so. What does it matter if you've been awake for 8 hours to get to that point, or 48? If you can't rest for another 8 hours, pretty much your only option is to leave the game running for an hour of real time while you do something else. It's not like you can just say 'I'll be hardcore and fight on anyway' - you'd die the moment any enemy lands a blow.
If instead you use something other than a rest mechanic to throttle the rate at which people cast spells, what does that actually gain? In all the games I've ever played that's led to less downtime required, not more.
I am speculating and wondering, personally, if something like this could even work in a cRPG:
http://forums.obsidi...0996-abc-magic/
So, serious question: why are we talking about this? What do we want to get out of it? I don't really understand this discussion but I might have a better idea if those were spelled out to me.So we can discuss some common grounds that ticked us off in older games, ideas, speculation, dreams, thoughts. Be friends and work together. Endorse ideas and improve on ideas. I am talking about this because I like to talk about this; What would a great game be with this theme?
This discussion, and the question that I ask at the top, do you want to be restricted or do you want more freedom?
Do you want to be able to throw a spell every second by using an exploitable method in a game, or do you wish it to be more authentic to lore i.e a realistic fantasy? One of these are unfortunately mechanically restricted, which means that Obsidian would have to restrict the game from having the exploitable feature.
I wrote this in another thread: <- EDIT: Lol no I didn't...
<removed, Page 2, look for the 1's and 0's>
I want efficiency in the game, and my way of what efficiency would be is in the ABC Magic thread (linked in this post)
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Kind of like this?
0 = places you can't rest
1 = Where you can't
Now imagine the game is side-scrolling, and for the sake of it that the quotes below is the game-screen.
Degenerate problem:
11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111This would be Baldur's Gate, you can save & rest at any point in the game.
Restricted solution:
11111111110001111111111000111111111100011111111110001111111111I would say that Final Fantasy series deploy's somewhat a system like this. You can save/rest anywhere on the world map, but you can't save in dungeons (unless at a save/rest points).
Functional solution:
00000000001110000000000111000000000011100000000001110000000000Diablo II and similar employs something like this.
Am I understanding what you are getting at?
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Without resting in the game it wouldn't have been the same game, instead it was released to have that feature. What if the developer's had gotten cold feet and removed the feature from the game? Would it have been the same experience? Would we even be talking about it today?
What would that even mean? You're talking about having an entirely different magic system? I don't think it would have been anywhere near as good if it had used a mana-based system, which was the only other system in common use at the time.
It simply means that Baldur's Gate would have been different game without the Rest mechanic, and from reading your post we agree/are on the same level.
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Maybe this is too logical for people, but have you considered limiting sleep by only allowing it every 16 hours? Yeah, I know it's a totally crazy idea and all.
I guess I'm deficient in logic. When I'm sick or injured in real life I frequently sleep more often then every sixteen hours. Why is it illogical to do the same in a game?
That is like implying that the party you deploy is constantly sick and injured (which they are in a sense it just sound funny).
But I get where you are going, the thing here is that in Baldur's Gate you have the ability to rest for 240 hours if you so wish too. I love it, I have the freedom to do it! Doing it would be utterly pointless as I only needed 8 hours to heal up my spells (one click). I would just like to see it more challenging and, purposeful.
This whole resting business in game seems to be player preference completely.
To counter with a real-life scenario towards you:
If I sleep 12-13 hours I get a headache, a bad headache. 12-13 hours is about the most I am capable of sleeping. My longest "record" of being awake is around 52 hours before completely and entirely passing out:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_can_a_human_sleep
I guess that the "This is a fantasy game"-argument is going to be followed soon xD then we'll go full circle!
Poster1: "Let's compare with real life"
Poster2: "Your comparison is invalid"
Poster3: "It's a fantasy game!"
Poster2: *Face-to-palm*
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Perhaps I'm going too far now, but what about scrapping "sleep" and make any rest at inns a high-quality resting with some temporary perk being turned on for like two hours? You know, like all those scattered priests giving the party blessings of all kinds.
I can't resist but this sounds like copied and pasted from W.o.W. "Well Rested" is a stamina thing?
However, I think that there should be a perk, as if encouraging the player, to rather rest at an Inn instead of out in the wilds (both for safety and because of comfort/morale).
Could sleeping out in the wilds cause demoralization? If you sleep outside this or that many times you'll notice your party becoming more and more grumpy, but by going to a Tavern and drink some as well as sleep at an Inn could replenish it? Hm..
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What's the point of the question?
If we need to restrict ourselves from abusing game mechanics to break it, that mechanics is already broken and unbalanced.
Well there are certain freedoms that come with an exploitable feature, whilst the un-exploitable feature would make everything more authentic/a.k.a. hardcore.
Take a look at the Baldur's Gate rest mechanic as an example. If you could rest, but not abuse it, and the ambushes scaled and were more of a challenge, it would feel atmospheric/authentic I am sure. But facts stand that the Rest feature is highly exploitable, and it is an enjoyable freedom in itself.
Within freedom you will find yourself more in the situation where you ask yourself "Should I use this or not?".
Baldur's Gate got the resting mechanic to mirror this.
Whilst in a constricted, authentic world, you will more oftentimes find yourself in the situation "I should use this".
Diablo II got the Waypoint mechanic to mirror this.
RTwP versus Turn Based Combat
in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)
Posted · Edited by Osvir
I didn't read, but whether there is a Turn Based solution (A la Baldur's Gate, which was Turn Based in the mechanics. Would Baldur's Gate had been a Text game only you would've seen it as taking turns), or a Real Time Based solution I want a Pause function.
That's all I'm asking for really.
EDIT:
<3 intended for all of you from me (And probably from Shrek too, I'm sure)
I couldn't help it, I just thought it beautiful in the midst of the posts and wanted to highlight it
2nd EDIT:
And I can't help it! Someone said that RT can not be truly strategic (metiman) where I think you are wrong.
As a rather seasoned League of Legends player, as well as a noob StarCraft II player, Real Time is all kinds of strategic.
Whether it is Real Time, Turn-Based or whatever it is, it will always hold it's own Strategy.
You have no idea how much my mind works Real Time to access the best strategy when I play League of Legends:
* Wards
* Enemy movements
* Typing/Communication with the team
* Positioning
* Vision
* Map awareness
* Who should I focus on the enemy team?
* Where should I throw my spells and how will that benefit my team?
Whilst in Baldur's Gate I can take my time by simply pressing "Space" or the Pause button and access the situation from a Chess perspective. In Baldur's Gate I have all the time in the world to solve the situation, strategically, and in League of Legends my time is running out (I have to think and react fast) and I have to choose my strategy before it is too late.
I wish to highlight this so there is no confusion or misunderstanding:
I would not like to see a real time system being used in a Baldur's Gate-esque game without the PAUSE function
EDIT: This quote is a response to the Turn-Based mechanic.
How is it exploitable? Explain/Elaborate.