Osvir
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Posts posted by Osvir
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^Depends on how mature the Wizard is. Is he an Anakin or an Obi-Wan? 2 Evil Sith Wizards battle for power constantly.
About sharing spells, could you teach a trainer who then trains others so that you will meet enemies and friends alike using the spell? It could replace the generic other spell that the enemy always casts in battle (over time you'd notice more and more use it, if it's a good spell ofc). This would be a great feature for two reasons,
A, Being able customize your game in a way mid-game, altering the world from within the game (This makes your character feel important imo)
B, Personalizing your game (Hey, you named that spell, and made the spell combining Generic Spell Animation A and Generic Spell Animation B, sure, Obsidian gave you the tools but you "built" it, or at least that's how it could feel like. It could make the game up-close and personal on a personal level).
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Hmm... this brings to thought off topic things (Why is always Good versus Evil, or Evil versus Good? Where is the Evil versus Evil and Good versus Good? Just feels as if it is rare in games altogether)
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I definitely like that idea, Osvir. I think being a Warrior doesn't mean you can't fight with a quarterstaff, or use magic, just as being a Mage doesn't mean you can't handle a weapon well. I've ALWAYS loved the idea of a combat Mage. A Mage who can do more than poke people occasionally with a dagger in between spells.
You just don't want to take it too far. Like in Skyrim, for example. Or Fable. Yeah, you could "make your own class." But, since you could pretty much do everything to the fullest, there really wasn't much of a specialization. You shouldn't be allowed to do EVERYthing. It just doesn't make any sense in an RPG. If you play ALL the roles, then you're left with a PG.
Exactly. What I am envisioning isn't a TES system:
Character & Class Level Up = Quest Experience"It is at the end of the journey we realize it was a journey" in that way I feel about lots of things. I can only come to full realization when my Quest is done, and I learn the experience of it (Quest Based-System). It makes no sense that Quests would have anything to do with my skill with a sword, unless a specific Quest. My sneaking, speech skill and trade skill could all be tied to Questing however.
Weapon Level Up = Kill enemies. How Baldur's Gate does it (Take down 1 Enemy, get 15 Experience for the Equipped weapon). You'd have 1'000'000 Experience just to Level it 1 Level. When I am only the one left standing on the battlefield, that is when I learn. When I have taken down my opponent, that is when I learn. You learn in the midst of combat as well, but for simplicity's sake and philosophically you learn when you are alive and your opponent is dead. If the other way around you learned/experienced only to embrace defeat or death.
Fighter -> Monster dies = Experience
Monster -> Fighter dies = Death, no Experience
Makes sense?
I really like the idea and thought about how a Rogue with Axes would have its own style, just a thought:
* 11 Classes and some 22~ weapons? That's about... 231+ different styles/animations/abilities at least
For simplicity's sake it would be easier to tie about 3-4 abilities to each Weapon for everyone, that would narrow down Weapon Abilities to some 33-44+ (this is not taking Spells or Schools into Account). Class specific abilities could be 3-4 for each class as well, now up to 33-44+ abilities. Roughly 70-80 Abilities in total, which could leave us with ~140 spells instead of having "[Class] Axe" skills.
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I can see it and I like it. Though like other people have said it's not super important but if resources allow.
Thoughts:
* You are knocked unconscious 3 times loosing all your Stamina (throughout the game, not in just one fight but throughout the entire experience). This "unlocks" Mortality mode, and now you could loose all Health as well and die.
* Likewise like the one above but harsher, you are knocked unconscious 3 times loosing all your Stamina, you die. This could be seen as "Continues", as you have limited resources as to how many times you can get knocked unconscious.
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I'd like to see something that hasn't been done yet (afaik) and I think this will be the last time I will bother with posting it.
Obsidian said they would handle Out of Combat Skills as a separate "Tree" than the Leveling Up feature, can't the Out of Combat Skill be attached to the Character Levels then? You could have Classes with specific Class abilities that level up with the Character levels as well in this fashion.
What I am most curious about, and a new take on it, is to have an external Weapon Leveling (Like how Baldur's Gate handles it, you kill an enemy, you get 15 experience). This way you can define your class.
How?
You start off as a Fighter, but you want to be able to cast Magic with your Fighter so you Equip him with a Grimoire. You'll practically be your own take on what a Fighter/Wizard is, you defined the class progression. You'll be a Fighter with Fighter Class Abilities with weak Grimoire Magic Abilities.
You start off as a Wizard, but you want to be up close and personal with your Wizard so you equip him with Sword & Board. You'll practically be your own take on what a Wizard/Fighter is, you defined the class progression. You'll be a Wizard with Wizard Class Abilities with weak Close-Combat Abilities.
etc. etc. for all the rest of the classes.
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^I meant real life. Which Indiana Jones draws inspiration from.
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^Well, there could be a dispute as to who actually was first, coincidences happen in a somewhat magical way sometimes. Perhaps someone on the other side of the world came to the same conclusion through their mathematical magical calculations which course was the best to go, to learn this magical spell, so there becomes a dispute as to who was actually first, because to your knowledge, you were the first to create it, likewise was your rival also first to create it. So you have to duel about it.
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^I'm with you. Pretty much what I'm going for, though instead if weapons are tied to classes, that'd be one way to do it. You'd never be a Ranger because you chose a Fighter, but you'd still be able to use some techniques and abilities of the Ranger if you wield a Bow.
A Level 5 Ranger with Level 2 in Bows would have Ranger Abilities & Bow Abilities
A Level 5 Fighter with Level 2 in Bows would have Fighter Abilities & Bow Abilities
A Level 5 Wizard with Level 2 in Bows would have Wizard Abilities & Bow Abilities
etc. etc.
See what I'm getting at?
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^I like that idea, but it springs to mind 2 questions:
A, would they be able to copy the spell if I'm not teaching them?
B, could someone copy the spell and pretend that they created it and then I can blast them in the face for pretending?
C, when I've blasted some imitators in the face, perhaps I become recognized as the true master of it, even if others learn it?
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I'd expect "animal" humanoids to be more humanoid, if we are looking at a new way of doing it. Their faces human but baring traits from animals (Think Tiefling, tail and horns, an elephant equivalent could very well simply be a human with a longer nose and facial structure, anatomy in a humanish way with Elephant anatomy taken into consideration, think bones with another skin. Kind of like Humans > Monkeys).
Evolution took humanity one path, and evolution took Elephanity one path.
How much would you care if the [Elephantoid] is killing monkeys and feasting on their roasted hands? (you can order it in parts of Africa, yes, really. You can get soup served in a real monkey skull too, if you want to)
I see where you are coming from, and I agree to some extent. Too many variables spinning in my head about "What ifs" that could make it work and be appealing, it'd just require a lot of work.
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Well, combat is combat. How are people going to play with the Rogue during combat? How do they want to play? I haven't followed this thread entirely but to a start it felt mostly like "What is a Rogue?" and then people argued what a Rogue was. Then there was debating on "What is the philosophy of backstab?" and it's still there...?
Little have I seen on how people actually played in Baldur's Gate with the Rogue or what the purpose of the Rogue was in their group. Mine was a female named Akasha. Like a Mage, mostly staying out of combat altogether because she was focused the second she came up close, she almost never hit anything either which was weird in my opinion, so I equipped her with a sling. I used her as a scout, trap finder and lockpicker, never really did any pickpocketing. Did some pickpocketing in Baldur's Gate a long long time ago (got a cursed item I couldn't remove from my inventory or something like that
).I personally think that if weapon abilities are directly tied to classes it'll be easier to handle every single class. A Fighter with Daggers? Give the Fighter Sneak Attack when he gains a level in Daggers. Pof! The Fighter could even suddenly be a "Fighter/Rogue" (in essence), Main Classing as a Fighter with Fighter Class Abilities with Rogue Weapon Abilities.
What we currently are looking at, from Official information, is that P:E will have a Quest based experience system. That is all cool and such but it leaves no room for Combat.
Questing = Important to your Character and perhaps your Class. It is the journey that your character takes and he gains experience for it. Bam! Alright I'm with Obsidian here I love this.... but I am also becoming better with all my weapons that I am using doing Quests, now I'm started to get rubbed the wrong way.
Weapon Experience = Exactly how experience works in Baldur's Gate. You take down an enemy, you get 15 Experience, but this time you get it for the Weapon you are wielding. Not like TES where you "Hit once = gain experience" "Hit twice = Level up" but mechanically like Baldur's Gate. So YES you could become a Master Swordsman and still be Level 1 Class/Character.
Obviously you won't though, because experience is limited in a game like P:E, if it will follow the same trend like IE games.. when 8'000'000 being max experience you can get right? (whilst in a game like TES it is abundant and almost unlimited) you'd have to progress at some point to the next area where there are Quests, which levels up your Character and Class. A Level 8 Fighter with Level 5 Sword Mastery (Capped) would be way stronger than a Level 1 Fighter with Level 5 Sword Mastery (realistically speaking, you'd max 1 or 2 weapons if properly implemented). I am advocating for this idea because it solves so many issues all at once, and if it interests you please read my Wall of Text in my signature, link should be right above word "Dimensions".
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^For argument's sake, if it is a Killer Moose with some deep legit jawdropping story I think you would sit with your jaw dropped thinking "Damn Osvir he was right!!"
Jokes aside, I mean no ill either. We could go way too far (stretching it). Let's try to stay on topic: We are talking about cultures from a region outside of what will be shown to us in P:E and if anything of it will be presented, yes this culture can be human, but perhaps even Aumaua, Orlan, Elf, Dwarf, with another cultural heritage or traditions from far away. It's not like all dwarves follow the same God at the same place and only inhabit one place of the world.
On furry comment: No furries? So no Gnolls or equivalent either then?
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While rogues are known for their stealthy nature both in and out of battle, many of them are quite talented with machines and contraptions of all sorts. High-born rogues are often very knowledgeable about esoteric, while many low-born rogues are well-equipped to survive in the wild.
Steampunk??
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That elephant guy just looks silly. I think minor races that are too obviously descended from or related to real world animals are a horrible idea. How is the elephant samurai going to feel if I decide to moonlight as an ivory poacher? Is the Pig-man going to try to jihad me for eating bacon? The whole thing just gets absurd.
What if our real life animals could be an intelligent species in P:E? Maybe there are no [Elephant]* Animals at all, or Birds, Pigs etc. etc. but other new fantasy animals take their place *shrug* <- not important but for argument's sake that's one way to do it
*[insert creature]
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@NerdBoner: as Josh says it then Minor races in this Spain Country of P:E will just have more room to exist (also I knew that the map is going to be bigger, this isn't the issue or the topic, but if there will be cultures from outside the borders of the map).
@necromate: .... that was about the elephant cus people don't have any imagination...
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also, do yourself a favor and go to Gibberlings3 and Spellhold studios and download a few of their mods to polish out the rough edges of the game.
My Baldur's Gate folder is around 20 GB filled with mods. Just recently finished Baldur's Gate. Had to backtrack because I had prepared the wrong spells at a location and the enemies I was facing turned my Main Character to stone, go figure
What I am doing here? Innovation, I thrive in innovation. Been trying to finish Baldur's Gate for a long time, but forced myself to never play Baldur's Gate 2 until I finished the first one. This took quite a while (age, experience, patience, life, time, real life travels around the world etc. etc). I talked about this the first few days I was here in the forums: Me & friend were playing Baldur's Gate, discussing ideas how to do it better, more fun, more effective, we were very into it and had a roleplaying session about it. We take a break, I google around a little bit looking and researching into old-school games BAM I hit P:E when my mind is as freshest and most eagerly in want of a new take on the IE-games and I have a ton of ideas for the genre to make it better and feel better. Coincidence? Yes, and I chose to follow it.
I have played my share of older cRPG's (note: Played, not finished all of them). I haven't finished Planescape: Torment either. Gameplay Mechanics versus Story is two different things, in Baldur's Gate you've experienced most of the gameplay mechanics in the first area (Candlekeep). If you've played one of the IE games you've played all of them, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Note: Story & Gameplay, two different things.
But yeah I'm on it, playing Baldur's Gate II again after your comment and I've made some progress. It's just daunting because I am doing it as a study, checking every freaking corner, nick and cranny, doing all quests, checking out all areas pfft. I've done Waukeen's Promenade, The Slums and now I'm exploring the Graveyard, yeah, I haven't gotten far enough, but far enough to understand the Mechanics (well, seeing as I have finished Baldur's Gate 1 already that's kind of a given).
But if I want to understand the Story of the game, then yes, then I have to play the entire game. The story made these games. I am here to discuss mechanics, not the story, that's Obsidians job. I wouldn't mind putting out some Fan Fiction for them every now and then again to help with some material (Unless they already have a source where they get their material from).
EDIT: About Chapter 1, funnily as I am in Akhathla (or whatevs I don't know how to spell it), I feel that after Irenicus dungeon you start in a Big City and to me it was quite a lot of "Woah...". A little bit too much at once. The confusion of "Which way do I go?", I am starting to dig myself into the game past that first barrier of "!?!?" and I am beginning to enjoy it much more, but that start right after Irenicus dungeon is a tad bit overwhelming in my opinion. Baldur's Gate 1 had Candlekeep and then the World, but you had a sense of a direction on where to go.
Though, then again, Ath~ is a great starting location because you really are "Where the f- am I?" for Player and Character alike.
I guess there could or should be "Wtf?" in the beginning but grow on you as you explore the world (<- Talking about P:E) each step in the world is a research of the world.
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No wonder the Elephants hates us, we seem to hate them (Elephants are known to be very very aggressive against humans and it would be best to stay away from them). We've abused them so much as a human race
EDIT: ^Trying to get some sympathy for the Elephants in a serious-minded joke.
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^I really need to finish Baldur's Gate 2 don't I? Bah, but I'm in a save position where I have backtrack... ah well
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^Horror Spell only truly Mastered to the tunes of Thriller.
EDIT: And Necromancy ofc
EDIT: Combination Magic! Chanter sings, Wizard dances.
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Final point, a dance doesn't have to be a "dance dance". I'm talking about "dancing" in an abstract way. Example: A Wizard elegantly conjuring and summoning standing rigidly in place "dances" with his fingers, hands and maybe even his arms. A Firebender (as seen in the video OP) "dances" with the use of moving his body "with" (abstract) the element.
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The smiley helps but I don't see you as an ass Pipyui in any of the threads or at all
I understand that the spell being drawn upon, scribbles on the scroll would perhaps be unknown, but when the mathematician within the Wizard starts reading/casting/drawing from the soul he understands the spell. Though then the question is as he has begun casting, will he be able to stop the conjuration mid-casting or would it be cast? Would he be able to "solve" the scroll without casting/drawing on the soul? <- Like I said in another post "Check/Search/Identify" the scroll in your inventory.
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^Yes. Full Contact Magic, totally on point. Good job and thank you
that's what I want. A Full Contact Wizard, or Monk, or Chanter etc. etc.Being in Contact with the Element through their bodies. Wizards use their Minds however, but I could see a Monk use Full Contact.
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Sometimes you have to go through a quest to obtain unique equipment, right? Can't see a reason why not to do something similar for certain spells.
The spell descriptions thing rubs me the wrong way a little, though. If I use my soul as a medium for a spell, I think I'd know the "structure" of the spell. Magic as described so far doesn't feel to me like a "speak words and magic happens" type system, but more of a "shape my soul to influence reality" kinda thing. Seems odd to me to be able to "shape" my soul into an unknown force. Of course, unknown spells might just be "soul schematics" or something, so I'm not against the idea outright.
You just took down an Evil Wizard, he had some magical scrolls on him. How do you have any idea what it is that those spells do? Sure, you can deduce that it probably had something to do with the spells he cast at you but would you be able to just know right off the bat which one of them it was? Did this Wizard have some calculations of his own that you don't outright understand until "Trial & Error"?
I can understand that spells would come with a description when you buy them in shops or from a Mercantile Wizard. But from those random/by chance drops I can't really see how you would know right away, specially if it isn't part of your characters Magic School.
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Is this better?
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Alright mate, but it does seem like you haven't read any of it when you put it like that. Just saying. The Elephant man is an example, it could be an Orlan from another country far far away, but I've already covered this in another post.
).
What defines a class?
in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)
Posted · Edited by Osvir
I am oversimplifying it because 231+ Weapon Abilities. On top of that you're going to want to put in Spell Abilities. I counted what feels to me to be the High-, Mid- and Low-Magic Class:
High-Magic: Priest, Druid, Wizard, Cipher
Mid-Magic: Chanter, Monk, Paladin
Low-Magic: Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, Ranger
If using my method you would have about 80~ Weapon Abilities (Not Weapon+Class Abilities, but Weapon only, that are the same for each Class but a Fighter would be best with Sword & Board, and could even have Class Abilities that are directly tied to the Sword & Board) and you'd have about 160 Spell Abilities to distribute between the classes. I did a quick brainstorming and I got it to around 25~ Spells Each for the High-Magic (Obviously it needs to be more), 10~ each for Mid-Magic and about 5~ each for the Low-Magic (in total). Obviously all 3 of these needs to have more, in my opinion. Most importantly the High-Magic ones, (25~ Spells spent across 12 Levels... 2 spells per level, maybe not so fun :/).
I'd like to have about 40~ spells each for High-Magic (total of 160), 20~ each for Mid-Magic (60) and maybe 10~ each for the Low-Magic (40). That's 260 Magic Abilities. With the idea I am challenging, which I like but I'm looking at resources, you might need 500~600 Abilities with description, in total. Rogue-Axe might have the same animation, but the effects of the Rogue-Axe versus the Fighter-Axe are different. I haven't even started going into Class Abilities yet, see where I'm going? That's why you need to oversimplify, just as much as you need to exaggerate it, this way you'll see where the middle ground is better.
Let's go back to those 500~600 abilities (in total). In my idea only about 80~ would be Weapon Abilities, leaving about 420~520 Abilities that could be distributed to Spells and Classes. This is if the game would be developed with the mindset that they are going to have 500-600 abilities spread across Weapon/Class/Spell. In the idea I am challenging we are looking at 230 Weapon Abilities versus 270-370 Spell & Class Abilities.
EDIT: And a good idea should be deconstructed, just to be constructed so we can deconstruct it again. A good idea needs to be inspected and analyzed "Does it really work?". Because you don't want the developers to be all like "That is one fine idea let's do it!" and mid-way through development they'll be like "Eeeeh this wasn't a good idea at all". So I think it is good to oversimplify, as well as exaggerate into obscurity, analyze, find problems and find solutions to these problems. Challenge the idea, so that the person that came up with it can think of new ways to present it and/or solve problems that others see that he/she does not.