Osvir
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Posts posted by Osvir
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I honestly thought the Dragon Eye (or whatever) in Icewind Dale was pretty scary the first time, the kid ghost or whatever you were walking up towards that turned into Yxonymei or whatever her Yuan-Ti name was.
I don't agree with you AGX. Perspective has nothing to do with it, scary or happy themed, both requires just the right mood/atmosphere, setting and probably most importantly that chilly ice-cold music that slithers its way along your spine. A good narration to enhance further. Or is the rules of feeling "scared" different from the rules of feeling "happy"?
Is the following true?
You see a picture of a happy kid playing in a ballpark laughing and giggling just like a child. Does it make you smile?
You see a picture of a sad kid, sitting lonely in a ballpark. Does it make you sad?
You see a second child manically eating the first child in the empty apocalyptic Fallout-themed ballpark. Does it make you disturbed?
Now. Does any of these matter if they are isometric, first-person or third person or can the "emotional" or "reactive" come across to you regardless? Can you feel all 3 ways in the above examples?
No one seems particularly interested in a 100% Horror filled game *looks at poll* looks more like it could be an element in the game, at one point, during one quest, or perhaps simply 1 dungeon. One NPC in a city, something small yet impacting.
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Like I said in the torch thread, there's nothing scary about an isometric RTW/P cRPG.
And you never replied to my question about it, Repeat:
Since when did the perspective determine if it is scary or not? I've read books that have put me on my toes, one book I was putting down because I got too scared. The isometric view isn't scary, first person view isn't scary either (otherwise I'd be afraid all the time IRL!!). Fear/Horror is all in the writing, the music and the atmosphere and the environment.-
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[spreading false words]
Man, when you begin to read the topics and you genuinely discuss with heart and soul, and intellect & knowledge, then I'll be happy. I'm not even going to address what you think I am saying.
See you later AGX, I guess until you've read the whole post.. maybe?
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I don't think OP is talking about entering 1 area several times with a different plot each time and lore-wise being somewhere else in the world (But visually being copy+paste). Like DA2.
I think OP is merely stating that "Leaving the West side on Temple and entering Beregost you enter on the East side". Beregost is still Beregost and not a different area. Basically having 3 pre-made options to enter 1 area.
Basically, you go from point A to C, but first you need to tackle either B1, B2 or B3.
A: In Jail
B1: Break Door
B2: Trick guard, snap neck, take keys
B3: Wait
C: Out
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Does Narrative Second Wind and Defeating Linearity resonate with this running away thread? (in terms of "having options to survive" in other ways than "fighting")
Or is it just me?
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There is that too of course, but more or less as a Second Wind for a Hardcore gamer on Hardcore mode. Getting a chance to restart from where they are at (instead of permadeath and have to start from the very beginning). It could be the light in the tunnel that you have to fight for.
I don't think the fights should be neither weaker nor stronger than an usual fight at that point in the game. You might appear at a point when you are too weak to win, and you have to run away (which should cause some narration in my opinion) or you stay and fight, if you lose you get to "Second Wind". I like your suggestion that it could be narrated in "Keep the big one for the slavers" in-before.
Likewise you could encounter the battle when you're buffed, and a higher level and you go through it like its nothing.
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Narration plays a big role, and I'm wondering how much can be in text versus on the screen. Can we interact with the big chunk of text (Narration) somehow mid-Narration?
Can a situation play in text, in essence "You are running across the roofs, which direction do you want to go?" but better/vivid wording. But there is no physical or visual running, merely choices in text and the use of isometric camera panning depending on your choices in the text.
Basically could the Camera+Text suffice for some sort of Only-Text-Based Adventures? I think that would help in the process of creating non-linearity.
Here are some other thoughts, related to Narration and some thoughts on Replayability.
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In that case I like the idea as long as the player is made aware that the rules have changed compared to a normal fight.
Does it really? I would love if there were not too much "Hints" in the game popping up a la "This battle has second wind!" then I might lose on purpose just to experience it. I feel that some things in P:E should or could be "hidden". This make the game itself more interesting and explorative, the game itself becomes a "treasure hunt". And fighting with all your might against the Ogres but you lose in the end, and being taken to another screen than what you are used to when loosing is Golden.
Silent Hill, me and my brother was spouting hell at that game when we lost the very first "battle" with the kids. We were so angry and so pissed off because we didn't stand a chance and we were pretty scared too, then it took us to this new scene, with the guy in the cafeteria and the a female cop. The game continued on, and we weren't ready for it. We were close to shutting the thing of as well. All of this comes with a great reaction to a great concept.
It also has a backlash effect of course, which might be that "You never experienced it" because you played too good or had a too good of a party. Regardless, P:E indicates a game that might take several playthroughs to experience every combination of companions, one game I explore the Mega Dungeon, another I don't. One game I have Forton in my party and another game I have Edair. I'd like to see some Events, being different depending on when I enter them, how I enter them and so on. "Having more than one entrance".
EDIT: Also, a Narrative Second Wind for replayability too. Getting stuck in jail when causing mischief in a city and breaking out of it (might grow old after a couple of times, perhaps even get executed if getting caught and escaping too many times in a row, instead of having guards go all out "power attack!" on you as soon as you do something wrong like in BG).
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Blasphemy I know, being a BG fan and all, but I found Minsc amusing for a very very short time. Then he quickly moved way over into annoying territory and stayed there. The 'miniature giant space hamster', IMO, had no place in the setting at all (I found it jarring and it just served to throw me out of the mood of the game) and the 'lovable idiot' role grated on me quite quickly. I don't mind quirky and/or humorous characters, but please not another Minsc.
I'm glad that Minsc was in, because he gave the option for those who liked it as a comic relief in a game, whilst there where darker and more serious companions for everyone who wants that. The point with the companions, in my opinion, is not only should they cater to different play styles (combat), but also cater to different preferences for "roleplaying" purposes* (out of combat). One character might be the best Barbarian in the game, but doesn't fit at all with my playstyle or the group I've got (the player "vision", kind of how I feel Kivan and Aerie not fitting in my current build in BG2).
*This is why I think that 1 companion could have a "something"~romance-ish (and not all of them)...
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I feel P:E sticks really good though. It sounds like its own IP you know.
P... Palatinate? Too long?
E... Eternity?
Palatinate of Eternity?
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I think this is true for design and for the player alike:
The designer only need to make one limping Beggar, for the player to understand that there are limping Beggars in the game (regardless if they are physically in the game or not). I think this is true for many monster types, characters and a lot of designs. In this sense, just having one old recycled boar in 3 areas could give the feeling that there are 100's (your brain analyzes it automatically, whether you are aware or unaware). Uhm... in Baldur's Gate, facing Sarevok, some mindless Bats were placed in the doorway (when opening) and also inside. I don't know if this was added in in mods or if it was there in core gameplay.
What it did, even though they were completely mindless and served no physical purpose, they served a strong purpose for immersion.
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Hi!
Got this thought in another thread, first of all, what is "Second Wind"?
-----------A-------------
In Borderlands and Guild Wars 2 this is a feature you can use to "get back in the field", basically it is you fighting with your dying breathe to get back into the game. It makes no sense really because:
A, I lost all of my health, yet I can still fight
B, When I kill an enemy in this mode, I get "Second Wind" and can return to the battlefield (with a portion of health returned)
C, If you fail to kill enemy during the time period you get "Game Over"/"Respawn".
D, It is super fun and great design (in other words, it doesn't matter in these action games if it makes sense or not)
-----------B-------------
As P:E isn't action based like GW2 or Borderlands, and with 6 party members, a "Second Wind" feature gets difficult to "implement". Instead, P:E would benefit from what I like to call a "Narrative Second Wind". What does this mean?
A, You entire party got knocked out unconscious by a group of Ogres
B, You wake up in another screen, you are in a pot and you are about to get cooked
C, Charm your way out of it to escape, or you get "Game Over".
D, In a game like P:E, with more depth attached to it, sense would have to play its part more than in an action game.
E, With a Narrative approach there are more ways to play with it, sent to Jail, stripped off all of your gear, you become a slave on a boat/camp/mansion, there's no end to the possibilities to what kind of "consequences" failing a Fight could get you thanks to being "Narrative". Perhaps you wake up on the shores of Dyrwood, with a narrative texts saying "You woke up at the bottom of the ocean". Etc. etc.
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Personally I would like the B approach, but for some encounters (not every single encounter) but in some fights there is some sort of "Second Wind", an ability to win a fight after loosing the fight. Which is pretty much what the concept of Borderlands and Guild Wars 2 is going for (You won the fight whilst going down, never surrender! Which can be pretty epic).
Thoughs?
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Going into phonetics (I think that's the word I'm looking for...).
I can agree that A-e-vum sounds too much like Av-er-num.
Don't know A-va-don = A-e-vum (the Don really sticks out)
Al-bi-on... yep. Germanic as well (made by a German developer team)
Ar-ca-num doesn't sound near close to Av-er-num except the "num", mostly due to the "Ca" in ArCanum, makes it more Germanic whilst Avernum is more smooth and geographically French. Aevum is like elfish in terms of silken smooth. A wee bit too smooth maybe. What I wanted to say was Aevum versus Arcanum, looks similar but sounds different.
I like what Dawn_ is going for though, a deeper research into "Eternity" and the crypticism of the title. Who would've known that Aevum translated to "Eternity" right off the bat if Dawn_ hadn't said it?
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Everything is conceptual Hormalakh... I pretty much just pressed a number blind
all I am saying is that it is an effective method to add in more critters and make the world feel bigger than it is. Blue Slime, Red Slime, Green Slime, Purple Slime are all unique in their own way <3-
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I would really love to see an horror RPG. However I don't feel PE is that game, nor should it be. Horror is at it's best when it's the focus, and more towards psychological than jump scares.
Still if Obs wants to make The Thing RPG, they can count on my money.
I had a dream about a quest where a God or a Cipher gives you a choice and "Eyes to See" in the middle of a city. The Quest is about there being Doppelgangers all over the city, mixed with all of the other NPC's. Time is running out, and soon all of the Doppelgangers will have taken over all of the city and killed all of the villagers. So you have to move quickly and take down them, but if you do it in the open guards will instead start hunting you down (you are the only one who can see the doppelgangers, no one else, so everyone would think you are going berserk when in fact you are just trying to save everyone).
Worst comes to worst you get killed by the city or thrown into jail. Which is another thought.
Instead of "Dying" when all of your party members gets knocked out, are there some encounters that could drag you off to their camp, make you a slave, throw you in jail, cook you for dinner (but with your wits you manage to charm your way out or whatnot). Kind of like "Second Wind" in Borderlands as well as similarly in Guild Wars 2.
A "Narrative" Second Wind.... hrrrrm should make a topic about it but I'm lazy right now (feel free to do it you if you find it interesting)
An element of horror a la Ravenloft is a fine thing, but I wouldn't want the majority of the world to be dominated by the horror theme. Horror is at its best when it's applied to a limited area. Make it too common and it palls and loses its ability to put the player on edge or disturb them.
Pfft! Ravenloft... ppfttt! It was nothing compared to the instance in Episode 2 (maybe that is Raveloft as well) in pitch black darkness and you're waiting for a rusty cranky ****ty mf elevator. That was some scary sh... stuff in my opinion. Got to admit though, the very first time I got to Ravenloft it was really scary (I wussed out, saved, shut down the game, took a breather, re-entered the game) but on Half-Life 2 Playthrough 3, not so scary. Scariness is about element of surprise.
VtM:B was really scary too, Mansion-house, but it became kinda un-scary too. Saw a Let's Play of it recently however (lots of time has passed since I played VtM:B) and got some chills down my spine. So it is entirely possible to be "re-scared" by an instance, but it requires the memory to go into the fog as well as time. Generally the "horror" or "darkness" stuff is only in the game to be experienced fully once, after that it can become rather bland.
For you who have finished Amnesia, how scary is it a second time?
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^That is unfair towards Blizzard. Many companies use this method "Same monster different colors".
EDIT: Though I agree, "problem solved". I don't mind it actually, "Same monster different colors". It works, makes the game feel like it has more monsters than it actually has. That isn't to say that there should be "3 types" of monsters that go through all of the rainbows colors, but if there are 50 monsters and 5 colors are being used you suddenly get 250 monsters.
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Pretty much a repeat of what I said on page 1, some clarification/different wording:
With the concept art that we've got thus far, we get a bigger picture of the world, and not just a bigger picture of the "Aumaua":
http://upload.wikime...rzog_Ludwig.jpg
If Aumaua had been more beast-y, or monstrous animalistic, the entire visionary and imaginary picture of the world of P:E that we can see now would have been completely different.
It really changes the setting doesn't it? "Goggles on, goggles off"
Before I would have said "I want Orlans and Aumaua to be animal inspired!" but seeing the Aumaua concept art I want Orlans to be more human tbh. For some reason (because of complaints or whatnot) I'm thinking Orlans might become more beastly.
Otherwise I feel that Godlike races could handle the "furry"/"inhuman" aspects.
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Howdy Stranger, you a Lone Ranger?
Bar fight Brawlers, Marksmen Lawyers (????)
Jokes aside, I'd like to see a Ranger who is a "drifter", and unlike the chaotic Rogue, with some purpose. Now -wait a moment- saying that a Rogue is chaotic I merely imply that the Rogue lives life on a "whim", with little structure. Drifting like the wind from one place to another, whilst I see the Ranger more like a drifter who is the wind (philosophically speaking), with structure.
I would like to see the Ranger have "Wilderness Smarts" whilst the Rogue would have "Street Smarts". Druids having "Nature Smarts" and Barbarian having "Mountain/Coastal Smarts".
Don't got too much input on the combat aspects, but the Ranger should be able to handle a dagger, a spear (throwing) and an axe, apart from being good with a bow. An un-adventurous Ranger living in some hermit hut by a forest: Dagger for ending the life of an animal with respect (Avatar), Spear for Bear-hunting or defending (taking down larger animals), and an axe for wood cutting as well as butchering purposes (as in profession). For more specific direction in the link: Primal Cut.
I see the Ranger as a self-serving resource. Self-sufficient. Gathers wood for the open fire at the house during winter, hunts animals for food and plays the banjo like a boss. A chillaxed dude/dudette who has harmony and lives life at a slow pace. Don't need much.
A Rogue is quite opposite, wants adventure, wants the hectic city life, wants stuff (thus steals stuff), wants excitement, climbs mountains, hitchhikes, charms his way through areas or whatnot.
Likewise, I don't want a certain "personality" to overshadow the class choices but I just feel they become more tangible with some "personality" in them.
A Construction Worker is a Construction Worker and shares some traits in his/her personality with other Construction Workers (outside of working, being a Construction Worker defines his/her personality slightly).
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What's the name of the world of P:E? That could work as a title as well. Perhaps not if it is "Earth" but if it has some sort of interesting world name (Gaia~as an example) or whatever it could be as "Entering [World]" by just playing it.
If a game would be called "Faerun" I would expect to enter "Faerun".
"Dragon Age" implies a specific "Era" or "Time".
Baldur's Gate implies a specific "Area". "Shadows of Amn" implies depth/mystery as well as Amn (Honestly IMO, BG2 could have been named "Athkatla: Shadows of Amn" that would have conveyed the same meaning as "Baldur's Gate 2").
Dyrwood could work as a title but it is rather bland. Is there a Big City somewhere in Dyrwood?
* Godhammer's Citadel (Bland tbh, Anvil sounds cooler)
* Dyrwood: Godhammer's Anvil
* Haedric's Hold (mid-map)
Eir Glanfath could work as a title as well but it would feel like "trying too hard" as a game title. Seeing it in the digital shop shelf~
There is a slight distaste in my mouth about "Eternity", "Eternal", "Immortal", "Infinity" being part of the title but we'll see if there's anything cool and alluring that can be done with it. Similar distaste about "Soul" (in the title).
Btw, I'm looking at this scratching my beard trying to envision some sort of setting/world with what we know thus far:
I think something simplistic as a title, similar to "Fallout". Something that tells more what kind of state the world is in or outright what the area/world's name is that we will explore. Having a "revealing" title related to plot can make a game predictable. I think what Developers do aim for, regardless if it is Literature, Movies, Books, Games, is to have a cool sounding title that reveals as little as possible. Neutrality all the way!
Shadows of Amn = Interesting title choice
Throne of Bhaal = Obvious plot
Icewind Dale doesn't tell too much either, "Tis Area is whence thou shalt explore". Though a great example, at a title that does it amazingly well: "Planescape: Torment" tells a lot shrouded in mystery. "Why escape from the plane?", "What plane?", "What kind of Torment?". The title actually makes the player question and analyze the title, well I can't speak for everyone but I do which is great as well. But it doesn't necessarily reveal too much, whilst it does reveal some.
"Shawshank Redemption" became "Key to Freedom" in Swedish translation which pretty much reveals the entire movie's plot. So title is very important.
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Osvir, I've never played WoW, nor do I intend to, so I wouldn't know.
Missed the edit time, zzz, just wanted to say that the WoW, in essence, "High Quality Temp Perk"/"Well-Rested" idea that you had isn't entirely bad in concept. In WoW it is more of a "Log out at an Inn" and wait a couple of hours and you'll have a temporary "bonus" to Experience (MMO mechanic). Which I hope P:E is not going for, instead in P:E a "Well Rested" scenario could imply that you get better "To Hit" chances, more agility, dexterity. Perhaps a +1 to all of or some of your stats.
Well Rested+Well Fed are two interesting mechanics, though at the same time I feel they could be unnecessary for the P:E experience. Ambivalent.
Ref:
Perhaps I'm going too far now, but what about scrapping "sleep" and make any rest at inns a high-quality resting with some temporary perk being turned on for like two hours? You know, like all those scattered priests giving the party blessings of all kinds.
I can't resist but this sounds like copied and pasted from W.o.W. "Well Rested" is a stamina thing?
However, I think that there should be a perk, as if encouraging the player, to rather rest at an Inn instead of out in the wilds (both for safety and because of comfort/morale).
Could sleeping out in the wilds cause demoralization? If you sleep outside this or that many times you'll notice your party becoming more and more grumpy, but by going to a Tavern and drink some as well as sleep at an Inn could replenish it? Hm..
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With spell memorization not being a part of resting, with the new system of magic that has been proposed by Obsidian, resting wouldn't be for the same purpose as the IE games. Hence why it isn't a safe bet anymore.
As it currently stands, "Resting" is only used for "Stamina" regeneration in P:E. As "Stamina" is something you regain over time, regardless (lots of time for Sandwich). This makes resting pointless, and it would be better to remove it.
But because it is advertised as a spiritual successor people both want it in and they want to see it improved. That is at least the feeling I get about it when I read threads here. So we begin to discuss "What purposes could resting have?".
These are some suggestions that I've caught whilst reading (the jist of it)~what the general discussion has been about regarding resting and things you can combine with it:
Crafting, Party Banters, Ambushes, Inventory Management, Preparation, Regeneration
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"Force" people. You are forcing yourself to go make a sandwich because you think you're getting some extra benefits by leaving the game? That's your choice completely and has nothing to do with the design. I can stop playing League of Legends in the middle of a match to go make some coffee or something, it'll ruin everyone's experience because I go "afk" but I really needed that cup of coffee.
In essence: Not playing as designed. You make the design flawed, because you want to "break" it.
You could always try using that in a review "I had to go make a sandwich to be able to rest".
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Haldur's Date
With a sequel:
Haldur's Mate
Finally as a third tragic installment:
Haldur's Fate
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@Hormalakh: Not so "laughing out loud" funny but more "chuckle" funny. Just having Minsc in my party made the game feel more light-hearted. Don't know if it is mods or no mods but a lot of banters with Minsc was funny. With Imoen as well, and Khalid, and Dynaheir and Jaheira. Or Jaheira and Imoen banter. I'm pretty sure that lots of it was modded in though.
all I am saying is that it is an effective method to add in more critters and make the world feel bigger than it is. Blue Slime, Red Slime, Green Slime, Purple Slime are all unique in their own way <3
Narrative Second Wind
in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Posted · Edited by Osvir
^Wrong: The reward for being ignorant, in one sentence.
EDIT: I'm not suggesting a Borderlands mechanic (as in "physically the same"), but for the heck of... even in Borderlands you can lose the game even with Second Wind. Doesn't matter if you respawn or not, "Game Over" as in "Your health hit 0, 2nd Wind activated and got to 0 = Dead". I think even in Single Player of Borderlands it is Game Over (Whilst in Multiplayer you get "Respawn").
What I am suggesting is a mechanic that fulfills what Borderlands does, but with narration up to par with "Secret of Monkey Island" or [Adventure Game] where you can "Fail" or "Win". Failing means "Game Over", whilst Winning means "Continue".
The Idea, Narrative Second Wind (Not every encounter)
Step 1:
Fight Bandits. Lose, get knocked out (all Stamina gone on all 6 party members)
Step 2:
Wake up in Bandit Camp. Try to escape.
Step 3: Win/Lose
Continue the game, or Game Over and load an earlier save.
Second Wind in Borderlands (Not what I am discussing, but more of an explanation on how Borderlands does it)
Step 1:
Fight, loose all health (dropped to 0)
Step 2:
Second Wind "Mode". Take down an enemy before time runs out.
Step 3: Win/Lose
Continue the game, or Game Over/Respawn and load an earlier save.