dunehunter
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Posts posted by dunehunter
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There are no way you can't build a monk with high deflection, they have the highest starting deflection, so you can build a monk tank with high deflection or a dps monk with low deflection, either will work.
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I think there are a lot of damage caculate problems in the game now.
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The burning damage of FOD should be either caculate before DR of after DR, but neither one is correct in game.
As shown in the figure below,
We can see that the Burning damage is not:
31.4 / 2 = 15.7 (before DR) or
27.4 / 2 = 13.7 (After DR),
It's (31.5 - (10 / 2) ) / 2 = 13.2 (Minus DR/2 and ignore dr bypass),
I have already tested several times and I am sure the current fomula is Burning Dmage = (Raw damage - DR / 2) / 2, and even if your weapon have DR bypass, as we can see the the picture, my arbuquse has 6 DR bypass, it's not in the formula unfortunately, I think there are some bug in the caculation so I post this as a bug.
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Fighters can pick weapon specialization and mastery, which is +25% damage to every hit, which is much better for dps than Intense Flames or Remember rakhan field IMO, in the beta, paladins can one shoot kill an enemy with flame of devotion and arquebus, now they are nerfed sadly. So if you want to tank and do damage, better pick a fighter.
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Hi folks,
Just picked the game up. Based on my research, it sounds like paladins are purely tanks, and mediocre (at best) DPS. Is that true? I'd really like to run a semi-tanky character that can dish out respectable damage, but I've always liked paladins, so if they can do it, great. If not, I might have to go Fighter.
Just pick fighter.
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I'm totally fine with a heavy armored front line support character / tank. What I've heard, not experienced, is that they are underpowered in a support role and must be rather narrowly focused in what the buff, accuracy or defense, nobody picks the charge. I could be wrong but there big claim to fame is there modals but you half to select each one at 3 different lvls. If all were automatically available and then you could pick between the other active abilities and weapon/defensive/utility talents that would help IMO. If I'm wrong and you do get all 3 automatically I take it all back because then you could at least strengthen one through talents and have the ability to situationally switch between then making them more interesting.
am not seeing paladins as underpowered in support, not by any stretch o' the imagination. yes, they is less flexible than the other support characters, but am not seeing lack o' relative power as a fair claim. the aura modals is excellent, and the per encounter/rest abilities you are able to choose are situationally useful. however, we will concede that if you plan on making a paladin your only support party member, you will likely find its lack o' flexibility annoying.
we suspect that one reason folks try so hard to make a paladin a tank is 'cause in a support role, the paladin is mostly just kinda... there. the paladin stands near front-lines, and then waits for the situation where one o' his/her abilities could become useful. is not that paladins is weak, but they is largely passive. at least as a tank, the paladin is active.
HA! Good Fun!
Aura modals are not that good IMO, they only have very smal radius only if you boost enough Int, but if you do so, you won't have enough attributes to distribute.
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About tanking multple enemies, I built a high level fighter, paladin, barbarian and monk yesterday, and let them tank Meredith's party seperately. What I find is fighter, even barbaran and monk tank better than paladins when facing multiple enemies. Offense is the best defense, my barbarian and monk kills faster than dying due to their beasty AOE damage. And of four classes, paladins have to worst healing abilities, or CC to make them safe.
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When building a tank, you have to concern multiple factors, defense attributes, self healing and etc... Though paladins have better fortitude, reflex and will defensive, their physical defense is worse than fighters, not only because fighters can reduce incoming criticals to hits, hits to graze, but also do they have much better self healing abilities, unbending and constant recovery is much better than lay on hand in later games, when you are in higher levels, your tanks will likely to have 200+ endurance, how will lay on hand, which only heals 50 endurance make any difference?
I'm inclined to agree with the assertion (Paladins are not the best choice), but speaking strictly from a survivability standpoint as a tank (not the utility), Paladins are beasts when built as tanks.As far as i know, paladins are inferior to chanter as supporter and inferior to fighter as tank, and they can't do damages too, really a confusing class. If you are not playing on path of the demand, i think it's ok to play whatever class you want, but for the min/max purpose, paladins are not the best choices imo.
Now, there are other factors, such as utility and Engagement bonuses, and the Fighter steamrolls the Paladin in those regards, but the AI in PoE is dumb as a brick and for most tanking, you really have to just engage with the tank first and they'll pelt him and nothing else. And the Paladin can be absolutely crazy when it comes to survivability in that regard, due to the bonuses they can get on top of the bonuses anyone else would get.
Something to keep in mind.
Paladins lack of self healing especially instant casting healing, which make them not efficient to be main tank, only off tank. You may argue its a team game other than solo, but its true paladins lack the power to stand on battle, they need healers to support them tanking.
Not to mention fighters have lots of CC to help control battlefield. The only thing paladins can do better is that they can revive others, which is regard to support abilities, not tanking. And that's because priest can't revive like they can in DND games, if priest have a similar revive spell, paladins will be totally worse in each roles IMO.
As I said, paladins are very confusing now, they can't be shining in the place they should be and you really don't have other choices to build them in other ways, want to build a more offensive build? No way cause Obsidian said they are supports.
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I'm totally fine with a heavy armored front line support character / tank. What I've heard, not experienced, is that they are underpowered in a support role and must be rather narrowly focused in what the buff, accuracy or defense, nobody picks the charge. I could be wrong but there big claim to fame is there modals but you half to select each one at 3 different lvls. If all were automatically available and then you could pick between the other active abilities and weapon/defensive/utility talents that would help IMO. If I'm wrong and you do get all 3 automatically I take it all back because then you could at least strengthen one through talents and have the ability to situationally switch between then making them more interesting.
You have to pick these three modal seperately, if you do so, you will waste 1/3 of your abilities.
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Are they surposed to do so now or they have changed this concept? In beta Arcane Veil gives a large bonus to deflection, but firearms reduce ones' accuracy, so i dont think they are that effective aganist Arcane Veil now.
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Just had a bit of a play around with the classes and, while the ranger has come on leaps and bounds from its earlier incarnations, it still remains rather underwhelming.
I ran a few fights against Medreth's party, on hard, using my PC and the BB 4. The fighter was set up to tank the group, and then the priest was set up either to off-tank Medreth or dps dependant upon whether the PC was off-tank or dps itself.
The party average damage (post fight) sat at around 100. Invariably for all builds, fighter sat at around 60, rouge at 130, wizard at 120, off tank at around 70.
On the Ranger playthrough, despite being set up to go full dps, it achieved a magnificent 90. That was less than the BB Priest (with a pike and without using spells) was routinely getting when not tanking.
Obviously that performance could easily be the exception to the rule, but I couldn't help but laugh at the idea of a dedicated dps sitting below the party average for damage.
I don't doubt that with some management the Ranger can be useful, as Sock says, but it appears apparent that it requires a certain degree of expertise to get the best from it.
For the record, the highest damaging class in my messing around was by far and away the Druid, taking home nearly 300 damage. I'm not sure if that included friendly fire, however, since half of the rest of the party had died.
Maybe you don't build your ranger right enough, and remember rangers get their dps burst when they reach level 6, with stalker's link learned.
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Hope they dont nerf flame of devotion too much.
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Do any of you guys know whether any of the Modal abilities "Reckless Assault", "Vulnerable Attack" and "Savage Attack" are exclusive to each other?
No they aren't you can switch all three on same time and stack their effects
Why defensive modals like Defender and Cautious Attack dont stack witch each other while offensive modals can ? Seems its a bug to me.
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As far as i know, paladins are inferior to chanter as supporter and inferior to fighter as tank, and they can't do damages too, really a confusing class. If you are not playing on path of the demand, i think it's ok to play whatever class you want, but for the min/max purpose, paladins are not the best choices imo.
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In the context of this thread, we should remember that Flames of Devotion has been nerfed and then made into 2 per Encounter.
I absolutely agree that it should get a bonus chance to hit, but only if it did not affect the chance to crit. I am not entirely sure if that is possible.
these are excellent suggestions and more than more smite fixes, we would rather see such stuff added to a paladin's catalog o' abilities.
dunehunter,
the paladin is intended as a support class. if you wanna do serious melee damage, the rogue is an ideal alternative.
*shrug*
HA! Good Fun!
Not class is "intended as [role]". Even assuming so goes against the design goals. Yes, Paladins are good at Support, and can make great tanks, but that is no excuse whatsoever to argue against being able to build them like anything else. It is needlessly and meaninglessly restrictive. This is not an MMO.
Ultimately, each class should have any number of different roles or approaches as determined by their builds or the playstyle of the player, without any intended pigeonholing.
Sadly i dont want to play a support paladin
It's really not fun to use one skill and let my character attacks automatically.This is really what it comes down to. There is no inherent reason why Paladins need to be a support class, nor any reason why paladins should be less engaging and interesting than any other class. Using "it's intended as [x]" is merely an excuse and symptomatic of shallow Rock-Paper-Scissor gameplay favoured by MMO:s and new-era FPS:s everywhere.
Especially in an RPG, every class should have a wide range of viable builds able to perform admirably if built in those directions, and potentially always be just as interesting, engaging, and reactive as any other class. Anyone excusing bad mechanics with "it's intended" is really just mouthing off cop-outs.
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[...] the paladin should be a class that deals reactive damage. Give them abilities like "spiked shield" or "counter attack", so that they deal damage by being attacked.
I really like the suggestions, and I think that it should definitely be a viable build for the passively inclined, but I vehemently disagree that the paladin class should be a class that deals reactive damage.
I think the Paladin as a concept largely fell apart mechanically when they made virtually all Abilities for all classes optional and removed a lot of focus on specific mechanics and key characteristics. I think it would've been better if they had stuck to core abilities and then allowed the choice of abilities from a pool, although that would obviously necessitate a lot more abilities than are currently available, potentially grossly extending development time.
Would have give the Paladin (and other classes) the chance to stick to a core concept and then branch out in accordance to the player's chosen direction. As it is now, the Paladin "works" from a balance perspective, but suffers conceptually in that it feels largely passive and somewhat schizophrenic in what it can do, what paths it can take, and the Abilities it is offered.
It really feels like they're not sure what to do with it, and from experience, that's a really bad place to be with a Paladin.
Totally agreed, every classes should be equally fun and have variable builds, no classes should be restricted to one role.
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I just ran through the beta on PotD with a tank ranger (Weapon and Shield, Hold the Line, Cautious Attack, and Bloody Slaughter, with Stalker's Link, Marked Prey, Swift Aim, the +AoE defense ranger ability) and a 2H fighter in plate with mixed tank/dps talents: defender, wary defender, confident aim, weapon spec soldier, weapon focus soldier, weapon mastery soldier, bloody slaughter.
The ranger was miles ahead of the fighter at first. In the Meredith fight, the ranger did 600 damage while the highest anyone else did was 150. The gap narrowed quickly afterwards, though, and the ranger began to balance out with everyone. The fighter, however, was starting to rise ahead towards the end. With the damage boosting abilities and relying on the DR from the plate + regen from constant recovery, the fighter was very heroic in action, although almost entirely passive. Managing the pet with the ranger was more enjoyable than watching the fighter fight.
My ranger ended with around 110 deflection. while the fighter had 60. There were some cases where the fighter was worthless (wurms, who target reflexes and not deflection), but for most fights the fighter was a perfectly adequate tank for PotD, and the ranger and wolf were always there, ready to take **** out as a duo or split to provide coverage if the fighter went down. The ranger also served as a better tank in situations where the fighter didn't, such as the wurms.
I have also ran a build with a boreal dwarf ranger with a rifle and a bear. I partnered her with a chanter, but her crit rate was obscene with stalker's link and the reload speed was respectable enough that I could just let her be passively. Very effective as a ranged nuker, but you needed to direct her based on what the pet was targeting. If the pet can't get to the juicy target you want to kill, then too bad. This is a downside for most traditional ranged characters who tend to benefit from free target choice. Still, the pet is an "okay" tank 1v1, but worthless in 1v2+. If the pet goes down, your DPS vanishes.
Interesting note: If your pet dies, and you have a paladin use reviving exhortation, you will still have the bonded grief penalty applied. -20 accuracy is a huge penalty to damage, but if you're using stalker's link then you're really down -40. That's why you CANNOT risk your pet, you have to play it safe. Unlike a tank ranger, a ranged ranger is entirely reliant on their accuracy to function in the group. A tank ranger can still tank even with crap accuracy. A ranged ranger can do nothing with crap accuracy.
Rangers are capable members of the party, they just have to be babied like the rogue, just in a very different way.
Stalker's link is a reaaally good skill to pick, even a bit OP to me, +20 accuracy for a circumstance that is not hard to meet is a bit too good.
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paladins have (had) a role and that role is that they are low management support characters with excellent defensive qualities. obsidian did not envision that paladins would contribute much to the damage potential o' a party via their melee (or ranged) attacks. smite is a minimal concession to the fanbase demand for more direct combat efficacy from the paladin. sadly, the more smite is improved, the further we go astray from the new and intriguing obsidian vision for the paladin. improve auras and other support abilities o' the paladin makes sense. improve defensive qualities o' the paladin makes sense. improve smite?
our opinion o' paladins started off as less than positive, but as o' 480, paladins are excellent in support, and they extreme durable. am disappointed by the apparent need to make the poe paladin, which is an impressive and intriguing class, into something with more damage potential. am all in favor o' adding to paladin catalog o' abilities, but we woulda' rather seen more diversity o' their support and defensive qualities as 'posed to giving them smite or smite 2.0.
HA! Good Fun!
Sadly i dont want to play a support paladin
It's really not fun to use one skill and let my character attacks automatically.-
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As flame of devotion is paladins' only offensive skill, i think it could get a buff for several reasons.
First of all, paladins have lower accuracy than other melee classes such as fighters, rogues and rangers. And since flame of devotion can only be used once per encounter, even you want to build a dps paladin focusing on flame of devotion, for example, a bleak walker pal with arquebus, grazing or missing will make their dps very unstable. My suggestion is to give like +10 accuracy to it.
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Built my own heartorlan melee ranger, very solid build and soloable IMO.
Selected bear companion, it tanked a lot and due to the AI of the game, enemies will attack pet in priority. With stalker's link, swift and steady and minor threat from heartorlan, my ranger does tons of damages while my bear tanks a lot. Wonder why so many complaims that rangers are weak.
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My suggestion will be:
MGT: +3% Damage & Healing, +3 Interrupt +2 Fortitude.
CON: +3% Endurance & Health, +3% Concentration, +2 Fortitude.DEX: +3% Action Speed, +3% Range, +2 Reflex.
PER: +1 Accuracy, +3 Interrupt, +2 Reflex.
INT: +6% Duration & AoE, +3% Range, +2 Will.
RES: +1 Deflection, +3% Concentration, +2 Will.
Therefore each attribute will have a main benefit and two minus benefits, make them more balanced.
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Wonder if this has been reported before, the overbearing attribute from weapon does prone enemies, but doesnt grant them the prone debuff.
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Inspiring Triumph seems to be a quite weak passive ability. Since paladins are not a heavy dps class, its harder for pal to kill an enemy. Secondly, compare to 'black path' from bleak paladins which works similarly, this ability seems to not even reach the power level of a talent.
Marked prey and Sworn enemy should have instant cast speed.
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Then IMO paladins should be able to use flames of devotion on ranged weapons too, but in V480 they nerfed it.
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Rangers can use melee weapon to do wounding shot, which isn't reasonable.
It's really not fun to use one skill and let my character attacks automatically.
Convert hit to crit and convert grace to hit?
in Pillars of Eternity: Characters Builds, Strategies & the Unity Engine (Spoiler Warning!)
Posted · Edited by dunehunter
If I both have these two feature, do I get more critical hits due to more hits and less grace? Or they caculate seperately?
BTW, is interrupt a good feature for dpser? I am thinking about building a fast speed attack with high interrupt, maybe a barbarian for AOE interrupting.