BasaltineBadger

The romances will probably be in, Obsidian will probably try to subvert big heroic cliche ("great life" quote suggest that) so they'll probably implement some romances with tragic endings. Something like Madison romance in AP. No I'm sure Obsidian is just waiting until the kickstarter is over before they announce no romances. Too bad that's Obsidian, not EA games.

The romances will probably be in, Obsidian will probably try to subvert big heroic cliche ("great life" quote suggest that) so they'll probably implement some romances with tragic endings. Something like Madison romance in AP.

The achievement are a mean of impalementng self-imposed goals like naked run, pacifist run etc. for people who are too uncreative to think of it and too lazy to keep track of it.

I don't think anybody is trying to. All I see are people rallying against another lame BioWare/Bethesda relationship-o-matic simulator for people who'd rather larp than play an old school pc game. But nobody here is railing for Bioware/Bethesda-like romances. Those people would be playing Skyrim waiting DA3, we want quality romances Obsidian is known for. Like the ones in MoTB, Planescape Torment and KoTOR 2. Yes those people are. They're saying the same thing they say over at those forums, is they want more romance. Here people are asking for romances that last throughout the entire game and are focused on throughout the entire story. Romances in PST and Kotor 2 weren't really good. I recently played Kotor 2. They were the exact same thing you see in present day Bioware romances, with there being 1 or 2 conversations before they're in love with you and want to have sex with you. Just there was no sex in Kotor 2. Just them being in love with you after 1 or 2 conversations. Could you please provide quotes for both of that statements. The ones for people asking for Bioware-like romances and the ones where people are asking for romances that are the focus of the story. I'll wait. Keep waiting because it's been discussed to death here. Specifically, people have said they want romances that are apart of the entire game. You can read the thread if you want to find those statements. I won't do it for you. People have stated they want romances that are a part of the story and more "mature" which is the exact same stuff that people at the Bioware forums ask for. The only problem is Bioware is so busy making it so you can romance every character in your party and making sure the LGBT crowd can also romance every character that they can't put a romance into the storyline of the game. Asking for romances to be a part of the story is not the same as asking them to be a focus of the story. For example in Alpha Protocol romance with Madison was part of the story but wasn't the focus and was entirely optional. And people asking for mature romances meant exactly the opposite of Bioware romances. People asking for mature romances on Bioware forum only prove that Bioware fans are dissatisfied with the current state of things, not that people here wants romances to be exactly like Bioware ones.

I don't think anybody is trying to. All I see are people rallying against another lame BioWare/Bethesda relationship-o-matic simulator for people who'd rather larp than play an old school pc game. But nobody here is railing for Bioware/Bethesda-like romances. Those people would be playing Skyrim waiting DA3, we want quality romances Obsidian is known for. Like the ones in MoTB, Planescape Torment and KoTOR 2. Yes those people are. They're saying the same thing they say over at those forums, is they want more romance. Here people are asking for romances that last throughout the entire game and are focused on throughout the entire story. Romances in PST and Kotor 2 weren't really good. I recently played Kotor 2. They were the exact same thing you see in present day Bioware romances, with there being 1 or 2 conversations before they're in love with you and want to have sex with you. Just there was no sex in Kotor 2. Just them being in love with you after 1 or 2 conversations. Could you please provide quotes for both of that statements. The ones for people asking for Bioware-like romances and the ones where people are asking for romances that are the focus of the story. I'll wait.

I don't think anybody is trying to. All I see are people rallying against another lame BioWare/Bethesda relationship-o-matic simulator for people who'd rather larp than play an old school pc game. But nobody here is railing for Bioware/Bethesda-like romances. Those people would be playing Skyrim waiting DA3, we want quality romances Obsidian is known for. Like the ones in MoTB, Planescape Torment and KoTOR 2.

I hope that cleric is going to be a mage specializing in healing magic and buffs instead of DnD "inspired" priest with wearing heavy armor and fighting with blunt weapons.

You are new to Internet discussions aren't you?

@Naurgalen I really like it. They should also make certain types of terrain affect player (walking on swamps makes you slower), make height matter and some cover system.

Yeah this is just like the Bioware forums with Biowarians demanding romances that last throughout the game. It's god awful because they never shut up and will keep this thread going for 300 pages and just keep on saying they want romances and what they should be etc just like on the Bioware forums. It's god awful. If your romance options include a girl who can never take off her suit, mentally challenged ex-flying elf and an alien from a race of blue space lesbians you are going to attract certain kind of people, you know.

No they are not. Almost no one wants a Mass effect like romance option. Again look at Baldurs gate 2 for example. That is the romance most of us want. Not the Bioware one. The point was that the mainstream, not people here consider it as such. And this is not a mainstream game so who cares about that? Yes, it's not a mainstream game, what does it have to do with argument?

No they are not. Almost no one wants a Mass effect like romance option. Again look at Baldurs gate 2 for example. That is the romance most of us want. Not the Bioware one. The point was that the mainstream, not people here consider it as such. Yes, it's centered around consoles, so what? Also there is much "unnecessary stuff" in RPGs that are included because people like them. Just because something is not essential doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. I also don't understand what does it have to do with larping, playing video games is probably as far from larping as you can get while still playing something called RPG. @Bos_hybrid You misinterpreted my post I'm not stopping the argument because I think you shouldn't state your opinion, but because since the argument is centered around tastes after stating both of ours opinions there is simply nothing to add.

The point is that the discussion is meaningless. In the end you consider them a waste I consider them good, and discussing how much work it takes to make them is meaningless because you won't want devs to spend even one man-hour of them. We should stop before we waste even more time on that discussion. Frankly I don't care. The good thing about Obsidian being low-profile was that they could do whatever they wanted without causing the ****storm. The point was that Bioware also don't have to make romances. Yeah, it's not that convincing, and I'm thinking more about other people who would be interested in buying the game after the release, the ones who didn't play every Obsidian RPG ever released.

No single-race areas. In most RPGs there is some common area with many races and some dwarves, elf cities etc. There should be more mixed settlements when races play different roles. For example one city when humans mages rule and dwarves are used as slaves, and low skill workers while elves are considered criminal trouble makers and the other where dwarves are rich aristocracy controlling the town while human and elves while hate each other. The difficult part would be keeping the core race traits in all variants.

Isn't Sawyer pro social justice and stuff? Also, there were gay people in New Vegas and I think that Gann from MoTB was supposed to be bi, so I suppose we may safely assume that there will be gay characters in Eternity for sure.

There is nothing wrong with guns and I'm interested how will they be balanced with bows. But please no "magic vs technology" yet another time, it was fun in Arcanum, we don't have to go back to it again.

Because Bioware wants nothing but romances and the only reason the didn't include more was because they are super-expensive. There is no possibility that they wanted few romances and put those into their games. Number of companions is set in stone. And resources needed to make and balance another companion and class don't outweigh the resources needed to create romance sideplot. You want fancy newspaper, I want romance, why pretend that some of us is the true RPG gamer while the discussion is mostly about tastes. None of those things are objectively more important than the other. I want one romance. Baldur's Gate had 4, MoTB had 2 and nobody was bitching about that. This is a strawman argument. Of course making numerous romances would be affect budget but that's not what either side wants. There were no romances in MDK2 or Baldur's Gate 1, your point? The pool results are in favor of pro-romance crowd. But probably that doesn't convince you. But from the developer's point of view it's better to include romances. There are many people who like them and would be more inclined to buy the game if they are there but to this day I've never heard about one person who decided not to buy an RPG just because romances were there. @Twinkle gorilla: Mass Effect is revered as a great RPG, often being place on many "best RPGs" ever list, and action RPG is still an RPG. And I still don't understand the logic of removing everything the IE games weren't revered for.

I think you mean 90's and yes, that is exactly what Project Eternity is advertising itself as attempting to do. Project Eternity is advertising itself as a return to IE games, many of which had romances in one form or another. It was never advertised as a hardcore no-bull**** super-serious combat only RPG.

Will anti-romance crowd get back to the 80's please. There are plenty of games for you already, leave this one alone. And Obsidian romances are better than Bioware ones. No, I did not. And it's just your opinion on ME, you can't pretend that the game is not revered for romances and as a good cRPG because you don't like it. I just showed you that the whole question is pointless.

@TwinkleGorilla People look to Mass Effect as one of the leading example of video game romance, and to NV as the leading example of good portrayal of gay in video games, but what exactly does it prove.

There are not a huge strain on the budget. By using that logic we should remove every element not everyone is going to see and not everyone is going to like that somehow costs money: item descriptions, sub-quests, every companion beyond the maximum companion limit, minor NPC dialogue, hidden bosses and the rest of party banter entirely. But for that reason? To include a newspaper many players won't like or even notice either? I was comparing the percentages not the whole. Why do you think that romances will somehow make up more of party dialogue in a game not focused on romances and probably with loads of in-party dialogue than in a game that was focused on romances and had very little party dialogue. Sure, everyone here want 18 romances, each with 10 hours worth of dubbed dialogue and 4 endings. Obsidian makes romances. This is a fact. For you, I and probably many other people would do without a newspaper telling me what I just did. You are just asking them to carter to a minority for no reason at all.

Fallout. Arcanum. None of those games are revered specifically because of those elements. But since every game where the element is generally considered good passes then flirting in Torment and romances in MoTB should also pass.

But this is not true. Few pages of branching dialogues are no burden, otherwise the whole system of dialogues with party characters would have been cut off. Romance dialogue is a great minority of party dialogue even in as romance centered and dialogue light game as Mass Effect. Mask of the Betrayal didn't have 20 mil budget but there were romances and there was no indication from developers that they was no indication from developers that the romances strained their budget. It's just another piece of dialogue, I don't know why are you so much against it. You waste more budget on an useless companion nobody wants. You just want them to exclude romances because Bioware did them, not because you are concerned with written dialogue ruining a budget of a game. Nome one revered RPG which people love because of item descriptions, or because it included gnomes. Guess we should cut them off too. Nobody wants to force romance with characters romance doesn't fit or by making every party member romancable.

Double post

Except for limited resources. Few pages of dialogue won't consume much of the resources. Romances in BG2 didn't work like that, they were branching. Every time you offer a new choice in a dialogue it potentially doubles the content. You don't just copy and paste them from MS Word, they need to be scripted into the game. It's more work than you think. Just like any other dialogue with companions. Should we just cut off every companion and replace them with custom companions to save money just because some people don't like companions? Seeing how much people like romances in BG2 it's not a bad investment. People generally liked them.