1varangian

Combat is very much roleplaying. If your character doesn't feel how you envisioned them an RPG has failed to deliver. And in PoE the amount of time spent in combat is exponentially more than the odd scripted ability check in dialogue. It's ok to set difficulty to easy if you don't enjoy combat that much but saying combat isn't roleplaying is just false.

To clarify I also like the starting attributes to define your character so the level up increases should be small in comparison. They were trying to not have any dump stats but right now Constitution, Perception and Resolve do feel very much like dump stats. All spellcasters use Might and Intelligence. I feel a Priest should have high Resolve first while being intelligent shouldn't be that important for them. It's odd that Resolve plays no part in magic at all. Attributes providing tiny % to existing numeric values is also a bit boring and I'd like it much better if high Int gave you some new options instead.

I just started PoE again and my main gripe with the attributes is that they don't feel relevant. If you compare 10 Might and 16 Might, your average damage goes roughly up from 13 to 15. You hardly notice any difference at all in gameplay. Your 16 Might character doesn't feel strong compared to the 10 Might character. They can use all the same weapons and armor. Some hard requirements would definitely help create that feeling of prowess that is sorely lacking. Same with every other attribute. The bonuses you get are too marginal to make you feel a difference in gameplay. Putting a lot of points in Intelligence only gets you a 1 second increase in some duration that won't be noticeable or significant in any way. You can't make a character that would feel particularily strong, weak, fast, slow, evasive or clumsy. Every possible attribute spread plays the same, with only minimal, almost invisible tweaks here and there. The bonuses should at least be doubled for the impact to start showing in actual gameplay. Getting more attribute points on level ups is always fun too but PoE doesn't let you do that. I hope PoE 2 will.

I hope they further reduce party size to 4 which is optimal for having enough skills covered while being fun to micromanage. And to remain interested in the characters' backgrounds and story arcs. DA: O had 4 and it was perfect. 5 is starting to feel like a big crowd already especially in smaller hallways or doorways.

I'm not that detached from reality yet and I hope PoE 2 won't be either.

Not at all. Just holding a big tome looks cumbersome and ridiculous during battle. It should give a considerable penalty to deflection, accuracy and action speed.

Reading a book is something that should be done outside combat. If a Wizard can't remember or memorize their spells beforehand they should lock themselves in a study until they do. In combat, any hit they take should be an instant kill while they have their eyes on their books instead of the enemy.

I'd also like to know if Wizards get a proper staff this time around. As in a magical implement with a ranged attack, or some buffs to spellcasting. The little sticks aka wands, rods and scepters just don't cut it. And hopefully we can hide the spellbook. Holding a huge tome in combat might be "different' and "new" but it's still ridiculous and needs to go.

I usually play with a party of 2-4. It's much easier to control as I hate constantly pausing and micromanaging a big group. Then there's equipping and leveling everyone up on top of that. The game just plays better and smoother with a smaller party.

Have the devs made any statements about the attribute system? Or will it remain like PoE 1?

Any word on these? I did not like the arbitrary grouping of weapons in weapon focus talents. If you wanted a greatsword Fighter, the system would heavily push you into using Arbalest / Arquebus for ranged weapon because they are in the same group. I would rather have that focus in heavy blades, or 2-handed blades instead of getting some very random weapons in the same category. The groups didn't make much sense either. "Adventurers" wouldn't focus in cumbersome weapons like Pollaxe that's more a weapon of a guard or pikeman type soldier. "War Bow" is in the adventurer category instead of Soldier for whatever reason. Knights and Soldiers pretty much have weapons in their respective categories that should be in both. I hope the weapon focus categories will receive an overhaul.

To an extent, yes. So how would you solve it? Your strength already influences physical damage. Do you also want to remove active skills from meele characters? I didn't suggest anything of the sort and I won't be fueling silly exchanges either. Have a nice day, Fenixp.

"damage with weapons and the level of armor he would be able to wear." is one problem in and of itself, but let's gloss over that for now - you seem to be missing the implications. Might is +3% to damage. Always. Even with healing spells. It's always the statistic that influences the endurace shift you're going to cause and it always influences it in the same way (well... More or less, Obsidian still has some work to do for the abstraction to work 100%, but they're getting there.) Now... What about Paladin whose meele attacks may be semi-magical? Does the damage buff get split between Strength and Intelligence? What about other abilities of other characters? What about wizard spells that summon weapons? Is the weapon damage fixed? Which abilities and spells are considered intelligence-based, strength-based or combination thereof? Can I tell that at a glance without remembering descriptions for dozens of abilities? To make these work, you're going to have to come up with more "ifs" for your system. There's your advantage of clearly laid-out rules right at the base level of attributes. The more exceptions, limiters and modifiers you add, the more confusing is your system going to become down the line for any reasonably complex system. You're misunderstanding the whole thing, or maybe you want to for argument's sake. I'm strongly advocating the removal of all unnecessary modifiers that Pillars currently has that don't really add depth or anything meaningful to combat. There's nothing overly complicated in my proposed system that hasn't been done successfully in other games before. It seems your preferred system would be one where there wouldn't be attributes at all where you could put your points directly into "damage" regardless of class or weapon or spell. To each their own but that's too simplified for me. Obsidian's baggage here is DnD. It has an attribute system. It works well. It lets you create the kind of character you envision and the stats have a lot of weight in combat. Comparisons are inevitable. Obsidian created a system that is really similar to DnD but it has big flaws. And those flaws are not "it's not DnD" - they are about mechanics and expression.

The increased Endurance from Con isn't actually at all important. Good DR and especially Defenses are much more important. A single Priest can effortlessly fix situations where you can't avoid taking damage with Consecrated Ground. Also Second Wind makes Con a lot less important since everyone gets a big insta heal that increases with a skill rather than Con. For my first Fighter I played a non-min/maxed Greatsword wielder with balanced stats, 10 Con and a focus on Deflection and the rest of the defenses + Vigorous Defense for emergencies. He tanked just fine while dishing out good dmg. I would also argue that Int *is* a complete dump stat for Fighters. The increased duration is insignificant when a typical duration (Disciplined Barrage, Vigorous Defense) goes from 15 seconds to 18 seconds twice per fight. A constant +4 in Deflection or Accuracy or +12% damage matters exponentially more.

I don't think direct relationship would be that good; after all, knockdown is easier to accomplish if you understand Newtonian physics, but understanding Einsteins theories don't really provide an additional benefit to that. Lol that's why the "smart Fighter" build could be satisfied at 14 Intelligence instead of buffing it further. :D

Basically, your suggestion is becoming a "Strength will influence your damage unless you're a mage, then something else influences your damage, but your accuracy is actually influenced by Dexterity and Perception, perception is weaker tho. Oh and 1 point in these stats means a thing, unless they are higher than a <number>, in which case it means a different thing. There are also thresholds that you should know in advance because they unlock yet other things." And then a wise man will approach you and say: "1 point in Might will always increase your damage by 3%, 1 point in Perception will always increase your accuracy by 1 and 1 point in Dexterity will always increase your speed by 3%". One solution is clear and easy to understand. The other is unnecessarily contrived and will have me consulting manual for each use of it. They are both, however, abstractions disconnected from reality. No. Strength would also influence your Mage's damage with weapons and the level of armor he would be able to wear. If you want to be able to fight back when something engages you in melee, put a few points in strength. If you want to be a glass cannon who shatters in melee, ignore Strength. That gives you a meaningful choice that creates a real build option. A choice that does not exist in Pillars because the current system flattens the meaning of stats. Your wise man quote applies exactly to my suggestion so you must have misunderstood something. 1 point in a stat would always give you the same benefit. Just when you assign your attribute points in character creation, the cost increases in steps. NWN point buy system is a good reference because it is balanced and you have to make meaningful choices with your attributes. And it wasn't exactly difficult to understand.

Intelligence unlocking talents or improved versions of talents is a good idea too so it would be useful for Fighters. Or Int could simply buff martial talents. Knockdown is easier to accomplish if you understand physics.

Big problem with the attributes as they are is precisely that they don't create different build options because they don't have enough impact. Tweaking your wizard's Might and Int a few points up or down doesn't do anything noticeable so you can't really even talk about builds. A battlemage with melee ability would be an example of a build, but in Pillars it's much more about spell choices. The various and abundant protection spells and Concelhaut's Parasitic Staff or Citzal's Spirit Lance define a battlemage 10 times more than anything you can do with your attributes. As a consequence, all serious battlemages fight with the same weapon which again limits your build choice and versatility.

One more thing: A diminishing returns / point buy system for stats would help a lot if the bonuses become bigger. That would eliminate the problem in my previous post, where maxing Dex and Per could get overpowered. Let's say a stat to 15-16 would cost 2 points and 17-18 3 points like in NWN. Having an even spread of 14's would be very competitive with 18 Dex/Per and 8 in everything else.

That's actually a nice idea. Maybe split bonuses into half and full. Might +1 Fortitude Con +2 Fortitude Intelligence +1 Will Resolve +2 Will Dexterity +2 Reflex, +2 Deflection, +1 Accuracy Perception +1 Reflex, +1 Deflection, +2 Accuracy Arguably Dex and Per could both affect evasion and accuracy so why not split it. 15 Dex and 15 Per would total +15 Accuracy +15 Deflection which is pretty huge, so the other stats should have as big an impact on combat. E.g. high strength could be a requirement to be able to punch through medium/heavy armor in which case a high Dex/Per finesse type fighter would suffer against heavier armor and/or have the Endurance of a fly. Strength should influence the success of knockdowns and shield bashes and whatnot heavily too. Intelligence is already a dump stat for melee warriors so it would only become more important for everyone if it affected the number of skill points you get. Resolve could play a role for non-casters influencing how much and often they can use active talents (encounter powers) like knockdown or disciplined barrage. A resolute warrior could be more versatile and have more control options and answers for particular situations on the battlefield.

Right. I'd expect that a Wizard trying to create a new spell would depend heavily on Intelligence. And the one who reads it doesn't rely on Intelligence? Or do the stupid Wizards just point their finger at pics on the page like a tourist with a menu and then "stuff happens"? Why can't Ciphers or Rogues cast spells from Grimoires if you don't really need to understand the complex formulas? It's like they wanted to change the Wizard class from established fantasy norms just to be different and it ended up a nonsensical mess. When they could have called it a Channeler and done anything they wanted without raised eyebrows.

That'd be the Geordie Shore mage. Why do people like Yoda? Probably not because he's green but because of the immense power inside a small frail looking body which makes the character *interesting*.

Not advocating anything just pointing out the obvious. "Far from being occult or protected knowledge, most wizards' spells are just so incredibly complex and physically demanding that even practiced wizards cannot invoke them without the use of expensive, specially-enchanted tomes."

This pretty much sums it up. In DnD, when you look at the stat spread of a character you can imagine what they are like. In Pillars, when you look at the stat spread you can see micro modifiers to other stats. D&D: You're a wizard 'Arry, so you *must* have high INT, or else you will suck bigtime. PoE: You're a wizard 'Arry, so you *may* have high INT, but don't be so hard on yourself. Don't get me wrong, I just think not every system has to duplicate one another. Frankly, I respect them both. If Wizards are presented carrying a big book wherever they go and spells are complex magic formulas in that book.. yes, all Wizards must have high Int because their approach to magic is scientific. An 18 Might, 8 Int blaster Wizard carrying a fancy grimoire seems more like a parody.

Here's my quick take on stats and how I would change them. Might: 1) Remove mental strength from Might. There's already Resolve, Intelligence and Perception that cover all aspects of the psychic side better and more convincingly. 3 strictly physical and 3 mental stats is a good balance. 2) Give weapons and armor strength requirements to use. This makes strength useful for any class who wants to melee. Might score would reflect the characters ability in a descriptive way e.g. "he's too weak to wield a proper axe har har" or "she moves like a drunk snail in plate armor" 3) Increase damage modifier to +5% per point but only for those points that exceed a weapons strength requirement, E.g. Sword requires 12 Might to use, 12 Might = 15 dmg, 16 Might = 18 damage. Constitution: 1) A major change outside stats but one that affects Constitution's importance would be: Encounter powers have unlimited use but are paid for with Endurance. Endurance regenerates slowly in combat and high Constitution increases the regeneration rate. Constitution is just flat out useful for everyone instead of the bit of a dump stat is currently is in Pillars. 2) Since Endurance is now more of a resource in combat rather than just a health bar, add a separate Injury system where getting hit at low Endurance can cause persistent Injuries that impose penalties. High Constitution = high Endurace = harder to injure (unless you exert yourself in combat with too many knockdowns or arcane veils or whatnot.) Dexterity: 1) I'd remove action speed from Dex. Action speed is a bit of an unnecessary modifer on top of accuracy vs. defense and dmg vs dmg reduction. It basically adds damage since you attack more frequently, but it's very difficult to know just how effective it is without doing math or spreadsheets which are not fun in a game. Arguably attack speed has more to do with weapon weight and strength anyway. 2) Replace action speed with an improved Deflection bonus, +2% per point. Slick evaders and skilled blockers are about speed and coordination, not so much about being strong willed. Perception: 1) Remove the Interrupt mechanic as such from the game. Any hit's damage already determines how much of an Interrupt it is. And Perception already makes you more likely to interrupt someone since you are more likely to hit or crit in the first place. Interrupt is another mechanic that was already in the system before it was unnecessarily duplicated. It's confusing, unnecessary and hard to understand how much it really does. Axe it. 2) Raise Accuracy modifier to +2 per point. Very useful for everyone. Only use for spells that need to be aimed at a target e.g. rays and single target projectiles. 3) Have Perception influence detection skills for secrets, traps and sneaking enemies but still have those abilities as trainable skills. 4) Influence the amount of spells a Wizard or any other memorizing caster can memorize instead of the flat 4 per level. (Let's say Perception includes memory, keen senses, sharp mind.) Intelligence: Have Intelligence influence the amount of skill points for all classes. Intelligence means ability to learn and adapt which clearly translates to a wider assortment of skills or deep specialization in a particular field. Resolve: 1) Remove Deflection bonus from Resolve. You can't will yourself to block an attack if you're simply too slow. 2) Encounter powers cost -5% Endurance per point I think the entire spell system could use some kind of a reworking on how stats affect spell Accuracy and what the relation between spell-like Encounter powers and actual spells is. Resolve could be used in a will contest for control/mind type effects and their duration while Intelligence could provide general spell potency and Perception could help with spells that need to actually be aimed at someone. Can't get into that now. What I wouldn't change is how the stats affect Fortitude, Reflex and Will defenses. That's just right.