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ogrezilla

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Everything posted by ogrezilla

  1. ogrezilla
    Simple, it's an experience that rewards you if you have used your spells conservatively and punishes those that don't. It teaches you a valuble lesson that you need to be economical when spending yout LIMITED combat resources. IMO spending your combat resources so carelessly should have a bigger punishment then just an annoying walk. in that case, I think they either need to make a real consequence or just go all in with convenience. Walking back to town adds no challenge to the game, it just adds busy work.
  2. ogrezilla
    Challenge and tedium are two different things. Your dead grandmother could walk back to town, rest, and come back... even your pet rock could with minor manipulation. It's JUST tedium. exactly. I want as much challenge as possible and as little tedium as possible.
  3. ogrezilla
    My preference for that situation are on opposite ends of the spectrum. 1. I made it so far into this cave and got stuck. Well, make me reload and manage my resources better next time. This is where the save system needs to be sure not to allow people to get themselves completely stuck. This design requires strategy to deal with the issue. 2. Let me rest or speed up time or whatever so I can keep going without wasting time walking back to the camp site. The middle ground between 1 and 2 would be where I can freely rest and recover whenever I want, but I have to waste 6 minutes walking back and forth to do it. Standing still for those 6 minutes really isn't any better though. Both of those are just option 2 but with extra tedium. Either replace tedium with real difficulty or with convenience. basically, if resources are going to be limited, there needs to be real consequence other than tedium to replenish them. If a real consequence (you failed, reload and try again in my example but I'm sure there are others you could use) isn't going to happen, I would rather just have a convenient method of replenishing my resources. Tedium is my least favorite thing in games.
  4. ogrezilla
    Yeap, that's my concern. There hasn't been a developer post stating that "A mechanic will be available that immediately resets all the cooldowns" (whether that is "wait()" or "rest()" or something altogether different). Until I see such a post, I think it is far more likely that the intent of this feature is exactly what it seems like: to prevent players from rest spamming. The best way to do this is to make cooldown timers that only respond to the passage of real-time. This is 100% reliable at solving the "problem", after all. Of course, this leads to a much more serious problem, of people leaving the game running overnight (or during dinner, or while they are at work) to reset cooldowns, but hey -- surely the developers aren't that silly, are they? I'm not entirely sure that Obsidian's path to eliminate in-game rest spamming by the characters is to encourage outside-of-game rest spamming by the player. I think the goal of eliminating rest spamming would be to create a system in which the players would feel no need to rest after every encounter? agreed. But a lot of people on this board seem to believe that convenience is bad game design even if it doesn't actually make the game easier, all it does is avoid wasting time doing things like walking back and forth. Though so far the responses to Sawyer disagree with that generality and agree with me.
  5. ogrezilla
    absolutely nothing. in my opinion. walking for the sake of walking is something I would love to live without.
  6. ogrezilla
    I think you misunderstood me. The point I made was that cooldown systems usually have LESS powerful spells just because you can cast them so often. I want spells to be MORE powerful and limited. I still don't see why that has to be true if the cooldowns are long enough. You are right, that is how it happens when two minutes is considered a long cooldown. I'm picturing half an hour game time being short cooldowns. I have no proof that I am even close to right with that assumption.
  7. ogrezilla
    He said rest is still included. I'm guessing it will be more limited than it used to be, but this is where that would be useful. Then how does this system address the "problem" of rest-spamming? by limiting either how often or where you can rest. The advantage is that your mage can still get some lower level and lower cooldown spells back in the meantime. Then I'm cool with that, although I'd argue that such a system is a more accurately described as a "variant of Vancian system" than a "cooldown system". The only benefit I can see to such a system is to increase the power of players that refuse (for RP reasons, or whatever) to rest-spam to be closer to the power of parties that do rest-spam. I guess that makes it a bit easier to balance the game... Note: No system of restricting rest will be even slightly effective against a dedicated rest spammer. You can always retreat all the way to the last inn, if no other options are available, after all. you are absolutely right. Like I've said, I am definitely speculating at this point. I personally think if someone is that set on rest spamming, good for them. But it would take the temptation of dong it after every fight away.
  8. ogrezilla
    Because they boasted about making a classic game, a spiritual successor to the infinity games. Now they tell me they have cooldowns that mimic that. That is market speech. Cooldowns is a MMO mechanic no matter how much Sawyer tweaks it. Perhaps he is too stubborn to admit it. There is no bridge between classic games and cooldowns no matter how you spin it and promise me it will be good. It just means every encounter you have all your abilities available to blast away. No resource management, no strategy. And market speech won't change that. So wait, if I let you prepare 5 magic missile spells, and put each one on a half hour in game timer cooldown, and let you prepare 3 wish spells, and put each on a 9 hour ingame cooldown timer, that wouldn't be close enough to vancian? it would actually be more in line with the intentions of vancian magic than any of the old IE games. If anyone at Obsidian states that high level spells will not be available every encounter then you are correct and I am wrong. But for now all I see is them dodging the question. Let them state in an update that cooldowns will be so long that you will not have al spells/abilities available every encounter and all us haters will shut up forever. the information we have has them saying the goal is to at least somewhat mimic the old mechanic of so many casts of certain spells per day. That to me is enough to make me optimistic I guess. I assume the best until I have a reason to believe otherwise. You assume the worst until you have a reason to believe otherwise. We are both just speculating. At least you are being reasonable about it.
  9. ogrezilla
    He said rest is still included. I'm guessing it will be more limited than it used to be, but this is where that would be useful. Then how does this system address the "problem" of rest-spamming? by limiting either how often or where you can rest. The advantage is that your mage can still get some lower level and lower cooldown spells back in the meantime.
  10. ogrezilla
    He said rest is still included. I'm guessing it will be more limited than it used to be, but this is where that would be useful.
  11. ogrezilla
    sorry to burst your bubble, but that's how this tends to work. How much information do you think they can possibly know before they actually know what their budget is? About basic mechanics? A lot. they probably have general ideas. But I doubt they have any mechanics completely fleshed out at this point.
  12. ogrezilla
    Because they boasted about making a classic game, a spiritual successor to the infinity games. Now they tell me they have cooldowns that mimic that. That is market speech. Cooldowns is a MMO mechanic no matter how much Sawyer tweaks it. Perhaps he is too stubborn to admit it. There is no bridge between classic games and cooldowns no matter how you spin it and promise me it will be good. It just means every encounter you have all your abilities available to blast away. No resource management, no strategy. And market speech won't change that. So wait, if I let you prepare 5 magic missile spells, and put each one on a half hour in game timer cooldown, and let you prepare 3 wish spells, and put each on a 9 hour ingame cooldown timer, that wouldn't be close enough to vancian? it would actually be more in line with the intentions of vancian magic than any of the old IE games.
  13. ogrezilla
    Because they boasted about making a classic game, a spiritual successor to the infinity games. Now they tell me they have cooldowns that mimic that. That is market speech. Cooldowns is a MMO mechanic no matter how much Sawyer tweaks it. Perhaps he is too stubborn to admit it. There is no bridge between classic games and cooldowns no matter how you spin it and promise me it will be good. It just means every encounter you have all your abilities available to blast away. No resource management, no strategy. And market speech won't change that. if the cooldowns are long enough then it will actually be more limiting than the old rest spamming system.
  14. ogrezilla
    Of course you can abuse cooldowns for a tactical advantage as well though it gets much more repetitive and boring imo. I think the biggest flaw with cooldowns is that it's too rewarding to simply cast the most powerful spell as soon as it's ready. The sooner you use it, the sooner you'll get it back. I don't like that mechanic. There should be a better reward for cleverly saving/reserving powerful spells for later usage. In ALL the cooldown implementations I've seen there really isn't. You're also much less careful with exactly what spells you cast. I think one of the best advantages of a fixed spell quantity is that you, or at least I, have a lot of fun just by browsing/choosing what spell to cast. I gladly pause in the heat of combat just to spend 10 minutes on reading and weighing spells against each other. Cooldowns cheapens this choice a lot. Also cooldowns tend to make magical spells A LOT weaker simply beacuse they are available too often to cast (at least once per combat). I would much rather like spells that are extremly powerful but also so SCARCE in between that I wouldn't even consider using them for most battles. nothing they have said makes me think you will be getting your powerful spells every fight. If anything, that seems like the kind of thing they are actively trying to avoid by removing rest spamming.
  15. ogrezilla
    Yeah. AFTER they have my money. sorry to burst your bubble, but that's how this tends to work. How much information do you think they can possibly know before they actually know what their budget is?
  16. ogrezilla
    Then you will like our CRPG, Project Eternity, which has resting. :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: well said. I am very interested to see exactly how both are implemented. I'm picturing a more limited rest function that you can't spam, but it does essentially the same thing it did before. Meanwhile, cooldowns are just there to give some spells back in the meantime. Basically just double dipping long cooldown and rest systems to avoid the major drawback of each. But I could be way off. Mostly I'm glad we know that it won't be dragon age style casting with 3 second cooldowns and spell spamming. If they come up with a system that encourages smart spell use without encouraging rest spamming or waiting around, I will be a very happy camper. I would suspect it's as simple as if you're party isn't tired they, naturally, cannot rest. That sounds reasonable. I just hope they manage to avoid the need to stand around and wait for cooldowns. That's sort of where I can see rest coming in and being useful.
  17. ogrezilla
    Then you will like our CRPG, Project Eternity, which has resting. :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: well said. I am very interested to see exactly how both are implemented. I'm picturing a more limited rest function that you can't spam, but it does essentially the same thing it did before. Meanwhile, cooldowns are just there to give some spells back in the meantime. Basically just double dipping long cooldown and rest systems to avoid the major drawback of each. But I could be way off. Mostly I'm glad we know that it won't be dragon age style casting with 3 second cooldowns and spell spamming. If they come up with a system that encourages smart spell use without encouraging rest spamming or waiting around, I will be a very happy camper.
  18. ogrezilla
    Pretty much. Good. At least the stupid sleep spamming is gone. I always thought it was a ridiculous mechanic. I just hope the game utilizes a checkpoint save mechanic. Its stupid to let people save wherever they want. I actually agree but I doubt it happens.
  19. ogrezilla
    Wait, isnt that what weve been discussing this whole time? Were people worried about cooldowns within a single encounter? I want to know what happens between encounters to replenish abilities. my guess from his comment that resting still exists is that there will be cooldowns (relatively long) as well as more limited resting that will finish cooldowns and do whatever else resting does. So while you are doing stuff, some spells will come back eventually. But by allowing some resting you can get rid of the need to just wait around waiting for spells to come back.
  20. ogrezilla
    so you are just making things up here? That's a pretty solid argument technique if people don't call you on it I guess.
  21. ogrezilla
    He seems to like you too. How many times has he quoted you now? two or three. I must somehow be one of the only people who interpreted his comments the way he meant them. I'll chalk it up to dumb luck.
  22. ogrezilla
    I had forgotten he said it too. I hadn't really thought about it until you brought it up, but I was sort of worried for that minute in there too
  23. ogrezilla
    I really like this guy.
  24. ogrezilla
    I like that guy.
  25. ogrezilla
    same answer I gave in the other thread. cooldowns don't automatically mean dragon age. if you read the comments they made, you know they plan to make the combat mimic the general spirit of "# of casts per day" style mechanics using cooldowns in place of rest. They also value spell choice and preparation. So why would they chose it? They can potentially create a system that feels like the classic system but without the rest system to screw with it. Thus, you may actually end up having to strategically choose spells AND think about when you use them. The old rest system completely negated that second part. TLDR: They think they can do better
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