Stun

I still think there's something strange about that picture. There's some sort of funky distortion in it or something. I just watched the demo again, the door seems totally normal sized in it. Even the water wheel looks less imposing.

Fixed. Go burn your straw man in someone else's face.

lulz This is like the "when did you stop beating your wife" type of loaded question. First, I don't recall claiming that the IE games had broken systems. Second, I *know* I never claimed that I liked broken systems. Third, this is not an either/or. I'm advocating XP for kills as a base, and then Hand-placed Objective/skill/situation/quest XP for everything else. This IS a role playing game, not a first person shooter. (so can we stop citing Doom and Wolfenstein? please? thanks.) And I expect to be rewarded XP for my tactical, party-based, combat success as well as for all my other problem solving choices.

I might be totally wrong about this (in fact I might be flat out dreaming), but didn't josh say that those panels are floating and could be dragged up to the top? in any case, the only gripe I have is the combat log window. There's something....wrong with it. It's a little to the small size, and I think I'd prefer it in the bottom middle, instead off to the right.

Ouch! lol

Is anything in game development easy to get right? Of course it's hard. So what? By the way, as hard as it is, we're getting tons of these hand placed "Other Approaches". Have you taken a look at the scripted encounters, and all the skill and attribute checks (and I'm assuming XP rewards for success) that Obsidian has decided to implement? or hell, even standard 7-option dialogue choices. Obsidian is flat out taking on this challenge. But of course, the entire discussion here is about how, if we were to attach 100xp to a wood beetle kill, or 30xp to a black ooze, (for example) then suddenly the system will collapse upon itself; Players might reach the XP cap before the last phase of the final battle; and the worst result: the utter catastrophe of some players actually opting to "ruin" their own single player gaming experience by still choosing to kill stuff instead of choosing the totally viable, totally rewarding other options that are still made available to them. Again, I don't agree that you'd have to do this. I've got 5, count'em, 5 Infinity Engine games that I can point to that totally prove (to me, at least) that I'd utterly enjoy even an UNbalanced systemic XP system. No, more than that: I'd enjoy it for a decade and a half, and then eagerly throw a couple hundred dollars at a kickstarter that simply name drops them as an influence. It's YOU people who are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Not me.

My prediction for tomorrow, The play by Play: First: Obsidian announces that beta keys are now redeemable in the backer portal. Second: Backer Portal site experiences massive lag, and downtime as thousands and thousands of super eager backers suddenly descend upon it to get their steam keys. Third: several hours later, the site comes back up, and operational. I'm finally able to snag my key. Fourth: I run to steam and spend 10 minutes trying to navigate through its nonsense to find the PoE backer beta to download. Fifth: Download complete. I finally get to play! Sixth: I look at the clock.... Ugh, it's Tuesday morning already. Sh*t. I forgot to sleep.

Congratiolations.... your "fix" is what I would call 'totally break the system'... Oh yes. Thieves getting XP for Disarming traps. That Totally Broke BG2. I mean, with a party of 6 you could <gasp> reach the cap before the final battle! What a terribly broken XP system! Of course, if BG2 HADN'T made thieves so useful (both in and out of combat), you tiresome IE game haters would have bored us with your cookie-cutter Plan B argument: Endless rants about how useless the Thief class was in The IE games. Oh wait, you still do that anyway.

I'd pay more than $3000 for that. (well, depending on what spells are in it, of course) But can you imagine? Owning an actual, working, real life Wizard Grimoire? I'd show it off to my friends, and enjoy every minute of their jealousy. I'd Grimoire Slam my neighbor's P.O.S. Dog. I'd carry it around at work just to listen to what people would say. I'd constantly be casting all the per-encounter spells in front of crowds of people as they watch in awe. Me: "hey, babe, wanna see something cool?" Observer: "What? That stupid oversized book you've been carrying around all week?" Me: Sorta.... ::::casts Minoletta's Bounding Missiles:::: Observer: "Yikes! what the hell was that?!" Me: Pure Glory, baby. That's what you just saw. ::::walks away smugly as witnesses stand in stunned silence:::: And I'd make that $3000 right back and then some. I'd charge people who want to see demonstrations.

Yes? The police tactics we're seeing in Ferguson pre-date that 2011 press release by several decades. Police were doing this sh*t against protesters way back in the Veitnam era. Assault Rifles and everything? Kent State... Although to be fair, we can blame the National guard for that, if it matters.

Yes? The police tactics we're seeing in Ferguson pre-date that 2011 press release by several decades. Police were doing this sh*t against protesters way back in the Veitnam era.

Because not entering those ruins is impossible - it's not an objective, it's a scripted interaction. The scripted interaction had NOTHING to do with the Ruins. It was completely about 1) the purple wind, and 2) freeing the Rogue that the Glenfathan was grabbing on to. So yes, Entering the ruin was an objective.

When someone comes on here calling other people *thick* or *dense* or *stupid* and then immediately turns around and offers his own blind, unfounded theory of how something supposedly works and makes sense, then yes, I'm going to respond. And sometimes I might even choose to respond 'annoyingly'. Even if doing so doesn't "matter". Hope that answers your question. I am, of course, only speaking for myself. In a game where exploration is a stated design focus, rewarding XP for discovering caves, ruins and such would make sense. Yes. But it would be about THAT....the *discovery*, not "what you had to fight to get there" As for earlier builds, stuff we don't know, etc. That is probably the best answer any of us can give to *any* of the claims being made on this thread. But good luck getting any mileage with such an answer.

Perhaps to make it more difficult? I don't believe the point was that sneaking past / fighting a different enemy there would give you more xp, but rather having no enemies there would give you less. That would still be an unfounded assumption. Edit: make that a FALSE assumption. I just watched the first gameplay video we got (the one that showed the beginning of the game) Zero XP was rewarded for entering the Glenfathan ruins. And this is despite the fact that: 1)there were plenty of enemies outside (in fact, a whole group of Glenfathans) 2)Entering the ruins was actually a plot based objective discussed at camp. Explain that.

That's an unfounded assumption. And it would mean that playing on Path of the Damned will net you more than the 1500xp for entering the cave, since there would be more than just beetles and spiders outside. Yet, Obsidian has said exactly nothing about increased XP rewards for people who play on higher difficulties.

That's only true if you get the quest to deal with him. If you don't then he's not an objective, and then... Hopefully in 2014 game development has progressed enough that if you kill the Ogre before getting the quest the game will recognize this you will be able to immediately tell the farmer you already killed the Ogre. Will you also get the 1500XP for entering the Ogre cave itself?

That's only true if you get the quest to deal with him. If you don't then he's not an objective, and then...

^because.... hand placed (read: Arbitary) XP rewards > a standard system. Even if the encounter that rewarded you nothing happened to be more difficult than the one that rewarded you 2000 XP. And even if such a system can very easily lead to perverse incentives: Like metagaming.... Killing only what rewards, sparing everything that doesn't. Isn't that right, PrimeJunta?

Yeah, that was great. Memory! Six million XP! Answer a riddle for a skeleton! Sixty-five thousand XP! The XP system in PS:T was horrid and ridiculous, and a result of shoehorning the game into the AD&D mechanical mold it didn't fit. Chris Avellone has admitted as much himself. That would be a problem with how much XP is rewarded for each objective resolution. Not the system itself. We were discussing how to create a system that rewards all of your skills. PS:T gave you XP for stealth, talking, combat, and even trap disarming and spell casting. It rewarded you XP for each and every attribute you used. (str, Dex, wis, Int, Con, charisma). And it rewarded you for your Class. That is an all encompassing system.

I'm not advocating that the system allow for XP farming. I'm advocating that the system present the player with however many challenges it deems fit. And then.... that it rewards the player for whatever he successfully does to overcome each challenge. If that challenge happens to be an encounter, then successfully overcoming that encounter via combat would see that player rewarded with XP. if he sneaks past that encounter, then he'd be Rewarded XP if he talks his way past it...then XP. And for the nit-pickers, No, That doesn't mean that the game should allow you to double dip. if you got XP for dealing with that encounter, then any further dealings with it should net you nothing. ::::writes up Planescape Torment's XP system::::

The system would. You've dealt with the enemy and got rewarded for it. Any further actions against this enemy would thus not yield anything. And that would also apply to issues in the mega dungeon. Lets say you're on level 1, and there are 3 ways to unlock level 2. All three reward XP 1) Solve a puzzle that unlocks the Level 1 exit door. 2) Beat a Boss who has the key 3) Find a hidden tunnel that leads down. Nothing is Stopping you from doing all three, but you're going to get XP rewards for the first solution you came up with.

I quoted you directly. And you didn't ask me to answer any of your silly questions. You asked me to address your arguments. Stop whining, now.

Ok. Lets see... You're right. Getting XP for, say, successfully stealthing past an encounter... No no. That won't work. Because...um... well, because you said so, of course.

No, you have suggested that people get XP for their professions. Maybe you should remember your own arguments? Whether you know it or not, a systematic XP system is exactly what you've been arguing for. WTF! Characters getting rewarded for engaging in their professions is called.... Role Playing.

That would be systemic.