[Ambient sounds + NPCs : cities too empty ? + Animations of characters]

Maybe it's really cold outside and no one wants to loiter in the cold.

Or maybe Defiance Bay just suffered one of those purple wind things, and everyone's still inside. You did notice how crowded the tavern was, yes?

[Ambient sounds + NPCs : cities too empty ? + Animations of characters]

And.... I know this doesn't count, but in the stream, the building interiors, at least, have a crap ton of people inside them.

[Ambient sounds + NPCs : cities too empty ? + Animations of characters]

Josh's comment about "too much content density" in Athkatla was definitely NOT about how many NPCs were walking around in the streets. It was about the # of quests, and specifically, how it seemed that everyone in town was just waiting around for you to walk by so they could unload their problems upon you...one after another.

 

Also can someone kindly update me on the lingo here? What exactly is a PNJ?

 

 

Anyway, I'm planning on watching the stream again later, but from my first view, I didn't come out of it feeling like the parts of Defiance Bay we saw were "lifeless" or "Empty". Not at first glance at least. I did notice the glaring lack of city sounds though... that might have a lot to do with people's perceptions. But I'll watch the video again.

[15/1/14 Stream Impressions and Feedback]

 

weird line going from the letter "s" to "t"

 

That's not a bug, that's called a Font Ligature.

 

Aaah. And here I thought it was part of the engagement mechanic. Anyway, they should get rid of it. It's annoying.

[15/1/14 Stream Impressions and Feedback]

And forgive my literary ignorance, but what's that annoying semi-circle over every "st" in the text of this game?

[15/1/14 Stream Impressions and Feedback]

Sensuki it's 2015 friend.

Clearly a time-based oversight. He actually wrote this critique a year ago, then forgot to change the date on the title before hitting the submit button. Happens to me all the time. Damn metagaming!

 

Anyway, I don't really understand the "sterile city" gripe. It felt fine to me. Athkatla wasn't any more "bustle-y" and Baldurs Gate certainly wasn't. So maybe the ambient sounds *do* make a difference in the way of perception.

 

Edit: I'd suggest they steal the excellent soundbytes from Trademeet. Because those were the best. (If your parents don't buy you a pushy stick, they don't love you!" And "I always have been suspicious of clean shaven men!" etc.

[Attribute system revamped?]

So, help me power-build a Barbarian under these new stat values.

 

Obviously Might....gonna want to pump that to 18.

 

Ok, next.... would one want to max out Dex or Int? Dexterity would make him attack faster, but Intelligence would make his carnage have a larger Area of effect.

 

Constitution: bluh. I suppose we wouldn't want negative health and endurance values on a front liner, but the way the game seems to be set up, there's no great harm in leaving it at 10, or even dumping it to 5 or 6.

 

 

Perception: No more accuracy boost, thus no more reason to pump it to 18 for a Barbarian. so, leave it at 10?

 

And that leaves Resolve... not sure how useful Concentration is for a Barbarian, In v392, I never had problems getting my attacks/abilities off in the middle of melee even when my Concentration bonus was 0 or in the negatives, so this seems to be a relatively safe stat to dump... or half-dump.

 

So...

 

Mig: 18

Con: 5

Dex: 18

Per: 10

Int: 15?

Res: 3

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

one could/should suggest that pre-battle planning is necessarily increased in the absence o' pre-buffing.  if we keep insisting on using bg2 in spite o' the relative power disparity between bg2 and poe as envisioned by the obsidian developers, we will again note that while our pre-buffs differed somewhat depending on the enemies we were facing, those pre-buffs typically determined the difficulty o' a combat. our largely rote pre-battle ritual when utilized correctly, made all combats relative simple. aside from dragon battles, party positioning or coordination were relatively incidental concerns. did we have the proper weapons, potions and spells pre-cast and memorized? if the answer were yes, then we won.

 

without pre-buffing, Gromnir must, perhaps counter-intuitive,  be even concerned with luckman's aforementioned "strategic prepwork" and actual battle tactics.  poorly positioned or timed spells and party coordination is of much greater importance if we do not have 5 or 6 layers of spell defenses that we know ahead o' time will be neutralizing our opponent abilities. tactics during battle is of far greater importance. similarly, strategic prepwork is more important as lack o' pre-bufss means synergy between party members abilities is of increased concern.  

 

when offering advice to pj earlier, we noted that with appropriate gear and pre-buffs, one could make korgan functional invulnerable by the mid-point o' the game. there is a relative limited number o' categories o' harmful enemy effects that one need protect against in the ie games-- mind effecting spells, and physical damage, and energy drain, etc.  layer protections appropriately, and  predict enemy ai, you gain functional immunity to harm.  is a very useful way to approach bg2, nevertheless, the pre-buff-to-win approach strikes us as a bit shallow.

 

again, there is a argument, a good argument, that removing pre-buffs is requiring far more tactical and strategic sophistication from the player, as well as avoiding a tedious and repetitive pre-battle ie ritual.

 

HA! Good Fun!

That's funny. Your entire post assumes intimate knowledge of 1) all Buffs in the game; 2) all enemy strengths and weaknesses in the game. The "pre-buffing makes all battles easy" premise is a good one... for a veteran, or even normal player who's simply on his 2nd or 3rd playthrough. But for what we're discussing, it's nothing but the same empty, dishonest claim we always hear from the Josh E. Sawyer Parrots. It is FALSE. If, on your first playthough, you managed to discover the 'secret formula' pre-buff routine that trivializes all encounters then you're either extremely lucky, or else the game's encounters are poorly designed, or else the buffs themselves are too powerful. And if its any of these then it doesn't make a difference that you cast those spells before a battle. Casting them DURING the battle will produce the same result. Suddenly.

 

Example: Bg1. In my first play through (in my first couple of playthroughs in fact) I overlooked Haste. (the one buff that DOES make all combat in the game easy) I came to the game with immense D&D pen and paper knowledge and that knowledge dictated that haste is a single target spell. And that being the case, I filled my 3rd level spell slots with more useful spells (like Fireball). it wasn't until like playthrough #3 (or about 250 friggin hours of playing the game) that I bothered to "read the fine print" of Haste and discover that it's a whole party (plus summons!) buff. After that I began using it whenever.... before a fight, during a fight.... the choice was mine. And it didn't make a difference whether I cast it before a boss battle, or while I was in the middle of it. Once I cast it, the fight ended just a few seconds later. Period.

 

But it figures that the millisecond we discover a balance issue, people like you instantly call for the removal of player freedom, without even bothering to figure out what the true culprit is.... that maybe it's the spell(s) itself that just needs to be toned down a bit, or maybe the encounter was too easy to begin with. <gag>

[Attribute system revamped?]

Nice catch.

 

Interesting that 2 stats govern the same bonus (deflection). I don't think I've ever seen that in a game before.

 

So if a min-maxer were to pump his perception to 18 and dump his resolve to 3, the two would cancel each other out and his deflection bonus would be exactly 0?

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

While it could be that pre-battle planning is diminished without pre-buffing, I don't think there are enough variety in the encounters found in the BB to really know.

I don't think either side can apply this discussion to the Backer Beta anyway. Buffing itself is diminished in this Beta. Fights end way too quickly to make any difference whatsoever. That is to say, why would anyone waste time with buffs in combat when any sort of delay in direct damage dealing results in your party members getting slaughtered wholesale?

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

Oh, yeah, I forgot. I mentioned that he was near death. That means dead in the next hit in ToB. And of course I didn't cast timestop until Demogorgon was dead. Because that would be suicide! (I hadn't memorized any Pierce Shields, so a solo magic duel against Demogorgon would have just seen my entire front line get decimated, while my mage fires off a bunch of spells that do nothing.)

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

True, still What are you getting for your efforts, and for spending a 4rd level spell slot on it?

 

1) Enemies suffer a -2 attack penalty against you

2) Your party gets +2 to saving throws.

 

It's good. And useful. It's just enough to make you noticeably more resilient in combat. But it's not a game changer. And it certainly won't "trivialize combat". Not by itself at least. (or whatever hyperbole-driven gripe is being leveled at pre-buffing these days)

 

Edit: or at least I've never heard anyone say: "Sh*t. Just got my ass kicked by Fiirkrag because I forgot to cast "protection from Evil 10' radius!"

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

@Enoch Yeh.

 

Again: the coolest moments in a spell battle I had were in IWD when someone charmed a party member and I Dominated him right back, then someone did it again to someone else, and I used Hold Person to get him to stay put until it wore off. That was genuine back-and-forth, in-the-moment stuff which wouldn't have happened if I had just quick-loaded and pre-buffed with Freedom of Movement and Chaotic Commands (or something).

 

I haven't had any moments like that in the BG2 spell battles.

Ooh! I have. And it was quite hilarious.

 

It was my main character (Kensai-thief) and Seravok taking on Demogorgon on the front lines, while my Cleric (Viconia) and mage (Edwin) were doing their thing in the back.

 

Demogorgon: casts 'beguiling gaze' on Seravok and Seravok turns hostle. Huge friggin problem, since he was wielding Ravager +6 and he was buffed up with improved haste and a potion of storm giant strength. He could have easily one-shotted anyone in my party.

 

Quick thinking time... I had to get him out of the way. Like, Immediately.

 

Edwin: casts Maze. Off to another plane of existance you go, Seravok. Phew...that was close. Wait....we still have a problem. My Kensai-thief is now meleeing Demogorgon by himself. Not a good scenario. Time for some more quick thinking.

 

Viconia: casts Summon Fallen Deva. Sweet, I now have a very powerful Helper. What are you gonna do now, oh "prince" of Demons"?

 

Demogorgon: casts Summon Infernal Host. Now it's my Kensai-Thief and Fallen Diva vs. Demogorgon and 2 friggin Mareliths on the front lines. But hey, that's an even fight.... Demogorgon is near death and when he's gone we're golden (Edwin can take out 2 Mereliths on his own if he really as to.) Wait...

 

Back comes Seravok from the Maze spell...and he's still dominated (?!). He immediately attacks the Fallen Diva. Fallen Diva turns hostile.

 

 

At this point, I've had enough of this Black Hole of an encounter.

 

Edwin: Casts timestop

Edwin: Casts Improved Alracity.

Edwin: Abi Dalzim's horrid wilting

Edwin: Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting

Edwin: Abi Dalzim's horrid wilting

Edwin: Prismatic Spray -Merelith #1

Edwin: Timestop

Edwin: Spell sequencer: Skull trap + Skull Trap + Skull Trap

Edwin: Chain Lightning

Edwin: Finger of Death - Marelith #2

Edwin: finger of Death - Fallen Diva

 

Time stop expires, Both Mareliths dead; Fallen Diva dead; Serevok Dead.

Kensai-Thief uses Rod of resurrection on Seravok.

 

All is well again. Next time I'll pre-buff better.

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

Pre-buffing is still useful, and an alternative to casting in combat with an opportunity cost (sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse - depends on the game, spell and encounter). It could have been better balanced absolutely, but just flat out removing it is simply listening to the ignorant portion of the fanbase only.

More importantly, it is a choice.... one that has been taken away from us. There was *nothing* stopping Josh Sawyer from keeping all the 'opportunity costs' and in-battle-only buffs and also giving us some pre-buff spells.

 

In fact, for you "Balance-is-king" folks, I'd propose a system where a spell casters combat-only buffs are the super-powerful 'hard counter' kind, while the type of buffs with the longer durations - the kind you can cast before a battle, be the less powerful general type. That way the element of planning and preparing is still there, but at the same time, it's not cheapening combat.

 

Problem friggin solved.

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

 

Yes, You have. You simply ignored it.

 

 

One More time. Without the freedom to pre-buff, Combat becomes 100% reactionary. Which works fine in Action RPGs like Dragon Age 2, because the whole point in those games is to maintain the 'fast paced, seat of your pants adrenaline thrill'. But in a classic RPG like PoE, that simply does not fly. You should have the ability to prepare. The game should allow you to scout ahead, analyze the encounter composition, and then prepare for it.

Pre-buffing in no way adds anything stratigic to the game.

 

Ok, Mr. Military General. Go ahead and invade another country without Planning and preparing for it. Herp Derp.

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

pre-buffs were a largely time consuming ritual,

So? In any RPG that lasts more than 10 hours, combat ITSELF is a time consuming ritual. But that doesn't mean it should be removed.

 

 

The point is that Prebuffing is one element of many that comprises combat. Eliminating it is no different than eliminating any other part of combat. And in this day and age where every new RPG removes something that used to exist before, all in the name of 'accessability', Here comes Gromnir again, praising the virtues of every DUMBED DOWN Modern day attempt at streamlining

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

No, I heard you. It's just that I haven't heard a solid argument against the points I've made previously.

Yes, You have. You simply ignored it.

 

 

One More time. Without the freedom to pre-buff, Combat becomes 100% reactionary. Which works fine in Action RPGs like Dragon Age 2, because the whole point in those games is to maintain the 'fast paced, seat of your pants adrenaline thrill'. But in a classic RPG like PoE, that simply does not fly. You should have the ability to prepare. The game should allow you to scout ahead, analyze the encounter composition, and then prepare for it.

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

You and Sensuki say that they're messing up.

I can show you an entire backer beta forum with hundreds of threads that prove that it's not just "me and sensuki". So maybe we can dispense with the silly argumentum ad populum attempts already?

 

 

Still haven't heard a good argument from either of you for keeping pre-buffs.

Most people who plug their ears and scream "I can't hear you! I can't hear you":, typically won't hear any good arguments. Thankfully, Josh Sawyer isn't as deaf as you are. Even HE has seen a few of our arguments and made some adjustments to the beta. Why do you think the Inventory has 2 rows now instead of 1? Why do you think stat bonuses go into the negatives now? Why do you think you get Bestiary XP now?

 

That's right. Because WE complained that the Original design for these things was crap. So it was all eventually changed.

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

does anybody believe that prebuffs is more tactically stimulating or engaging?

You're trying to set this up as an "either/or" when it's NOT. It's Part of the complete combat experience. (pre-battle, battle, post battle), Removing prebuffing is just as idiotic and lazy as removing the post-battle recovery phase. (which many Modern RPGs have begun doing with their stupid instant health/ability recovery mechanics)

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

And it's absurd to claim that you had to go through the same prebuffing ritual before every major battle. You most certainly did NOT. I used vastly different buffs before Beholder fights than I did before Lich battles (for example). Ditto with Dragons as opposed to Vampires. And Golems as opposed to Mind flayers, etc.

 

Then there's the whole evolution thing, which people always forget in discussions like these. Your party levels increase and that means you get more tools, which means different buffs and that means the entire process changes drastically....and constantly.

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

Sensuki is so dramatic about everything in this game along with everybody on the Codex. I still cant understand why they have such an obsession with prebuffs. How did they enhance the gameplay? What good did they bring? I have not heard a good reason for keeping them in. This is all emotional and not logical.

How does the element of planning enhance the tactical and strategic feel of a combat focused game? How does giving the player a bunch of tools and then giving him the choice of which ones to use and when to use them enhance gameplay?

 

Nada. It brings nothing to the big picture. Much better if games just take the Pavlovian, Dragon Age 2 route: React please! Combat preparation goes counter to the awesome button, fools! Don't bore yourself by thinking ahead!

 

PS: bite your tongue. Sensuki is doing God's work. When a game's beta is messing something up, there *should* be people around to expose those mess-ups.

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

There shouldn't be a need to find som secret key to liking a game.

I don't know about that. There can be situations where a game is so unusual that you 'misunderstand' how to approach it and you end up missing out on its brilliance until someone enlightens you.

 

Planescape Torment is my example. It came out right after Bg1. The reason why I bought it is because 1) BG1 blew my mind, and 2) I really loved the Trailer....which was on the BG1 play disk.

 

OK, so I bought the game and I proceeded to play it just like I played BG1. I rolled up a high Strength, high Constitution Warrior. Needless to say, my experience was complete Garbage. Because of my Low Wisdom and Intelligence, I got hardly any memories; ended up sacrificing Morte to the pillar of skulls because I didn't know better; had to fight my way past my other Incarnations in the fortress of regrets etc etc. It wasn't until I went online to Bash the friggin game as being a ridiculously Cheap "D&D experience" that people finally confronted me and taught me how the game is supposed to be played. So I went back, started a new game, Rolled up a high Wisdom, high Intelligence character, and then marveled at all the new things I was seeing and doing that weren't available to me before.

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

is more than a few encounters that required us to alter tactics in iwd and bg2, but the basics o' scouting and using undead as pmd (old non-pc pnp nomenclature for polish mine detector) were extreme effective for a large % o' encounters.  paying attention to dialogues were also invaluable.  typical the developers gave clues, if one were paying attention for such.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Yeah, Ultimately the so-called "Sucker-Punch" argument is a load of kaka for all the IE games. Also, if you'll notice, BG2 does not even attempt to pull that kind of stuff on you in it's main quest. It's only the Optional stuff that can get a bit 'frustrating' for n00bs, and those encounters yield the game's best loot (Ring of Gaxx, Staff of the Magi etc) so yes, they *should* be a bit different, a bit tougher, and a bit more designed for the 'veterans' (I find it implausible for a first time player to even find the twisted rune encounter).

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

There's meta-gaming galore in Icewind dale. You go straight from Wyrms tooth Glacier (where every enemy is frost based, and thus if you're not using fire based weapons and spells, you're doing things the long and hard way) to Lower Dorn's deep, (where your fire based weapons and spells have to be swapped out ASAP otherwise you're in for a world of hurt.)

 

I suppose you could do the transition from one to the other naturally and "pretend" that your character wouldn't know that he's about to experience a 180 environment change. But No good player does that. Instead, we all do exactly what you "hate" about BG2. We meta-game. We say: "oh yeah....lower dorn's deep. lets see. Gotta Swap out fireball for Ice knife. Sol's searing orb for Otiluke's freezing sphere etc."

 

Then you enter the Artisan district: Oh sh*t, Just remembered. Umberhulks all over the place. Quick, lets memorize Chaotic commands.

[Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2, and reflect on Pillars of Eternity (2)]

That makes me sad. Contrary to the point of view of the typical Story-firster's who don't care that much about this kind of stuff, There's tremendous role-play value in one's weapons. I'll Often cater my whole character's existence around a specific weapon. For example, a Samari-type character who only uses Celestial fury. A dwarf who's goal in life is to assemble Crom Faeyr and then wield it exclusively, as if it's his Birthright. An archer who's best friend is the Gesen Bow. An Evil Thief who sees Blackrazor as an extension of his personality. A neutral-aligned warrior who uses the Equilizer because it's the only weapon that *understands*. A mage who's walking stick of choice is the staff of the Magi. A Paladin who finds his holy Avenger. etc.

 

But you really can't do any of this when the weapon enchantments are nothing more than common prefixes and suffixes. Yuck.