Reddie
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Everything posted by Reddie
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I am amazed how you "hardcore" crowd project your own reasoning onto others. That many of you want gameplay and as little of possible of this all boring kind of "distraction" doesn't mean every other one has similar views. First and foremost I want a story. If There is combat but story is still more important and has more attention given - fine. It's a matter of priorities, not how exactly one would rate game as having too much combat or too little. And if you're telling me to read a book for story, I'll tell you to go play World of Warcraft or whatever MMO for combat. It fits to just the same degree.
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Actually I'm pretty sure it won't happen. Most of the complains/demands on part of the "hardcore" fanbase is also valid with regards to games that Obsidian guys made largely the way they wanted them - i.e. KOTOR 2, NWN 2 + expansions, Alpha Protocol. Because of it, I'm inclined to believe Eternity won't be even half - no, quater - as hardcore as you would like it to be. And the fact that they started from shunning turn-based combat reassures me in this belief Well, I guess same goes for people who don't want/don't care about story. Hey - that a cutscene lacks gameplay doesn't mean it's full of story. Many non-interactive media have large parts which, obviously, lack gameplay but also add nothing or very little to a story. Yes, I consider most of ME3 cutscenes to be fillers. And same goes for many interactive cutscenes (it used to be called "conversation" but I don't find it accurate anymore...). Haven't played DA2, but I'll take your word here. Then we have agreed on something. The story WILL be mindblowingly fantastic Okay, masterpieces like Torment may happen only once in a lifetime, but I would certainly be surprised if we won't receive something of at least MotB quality.
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I see interesting similarity here. On BSN it was used as an argument too, that because there is plenty of cutscenes and all ME3 is anything close to "story-driven". Well, no. That there is a cutscene doesn't mean it actually adds something to storyline. In my opinion, in the games you've mentioned they only serve as an entry to next shooting level. The very beginning is a good example: BSN users boasted that there is "solid 7-minute intro to the story", only that it doesn't ADDED anything, it basically just sets up as a fact that "now you have to go there and shoot". Same goes for romances (yes, I am a proponent of romances, but not when they are there at the expense of the plot, not as a part of it). But that's a matter of opinion, I guess. I only want to make it clear that no, people who dislike combat may not come from any sort of "new" cRPG fanbase, they liked Infinity games just as you, but for different reasons. Well, it's hard to answer a chunk of text that was meant to be read in different thread and different context, even if it's somewhat relevant. Citiations are used to back up a point, not to make a point. And I have answered the point you were backing up (I think?)
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Excuse me when i take a sigh there. I meant exactly this point'n'click puzzle games when I responded to your post, so I think it's pretty obvious that pre-2000 terminology was understandable for me, making your apologies sound like mocking. Okay, end of the issue. Now back to topic: yes, I've heard of these games. I even played a few. I don't consider Torment anywhere close to the genre. Where did I described it as my "preferred" system? I wrote it was not awful. And it wasn't, in a game that puts emphasis on story and not combat it was just enough. Not to say that it couldn't be done better. Funny, cause I see it exaclty other way around - it's all gameplay and no story nowadays. Mass Effect, for example, in my eyes sacrifices most of it's storytelling heritage for the sake of linear shooting corridors. Won't even mention Dragon Age. And newest Obsidian creation, Alpha Protocol, suffers from it too, to some degree - albeit rewarding the player with better dialogue, scenario and nonlinearity.
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Okay, now since you've recognized that I accurately read your point (albeit I disagree with it), does your apologies for "gaming nomenclature from before 2000" has any other goal than being failed attempt at trolling?
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1) Point out unrelated genre based on it's name's semantics, 2) Complain that discussion got derailed on semantics, 3) Profit?
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You mean this genre that should be called "puzzle game" instead?
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Roleplaying was always about adventure. So giving this RP part of RPG more attention for once is just what made Torment so unique and awesome. Apart from the interface - kinda early iteration of NWN wheel - Torment combat system was exaclty the same as it were in previous (BG) and later (IWD, BG2) titles. The differences are not on part of the combat system but game design overall - there were noticeably less encounters and your characters were relatively stronger, so that combat was less tedious and didn't get in way of the story. And rightly so, the more storytelling the better RPG gets.
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Good to see you've finally threw away even the pretense of being rational @Stun: I don't know which game you are talking about, but it's certainly not Torment, where combat system was anything but awful.
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Yes, you will have your Wasteland 2. Now step aside and don't ruin the enjoyment for people who liked expanded story and limited combat of Planescape Torment.
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Yeah, as if everyone telling "if you want a story go get a book" was refering to this very specific subset/genre.
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I like both gameplay and story, but the POV of people who don't like the former is pretty obvious to me. Books are linear storylines, while cRPG games offer branching storylines, thus being completely different in terms of "enjoying a story". How is that so difficult to understand?
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I consider this thread a great sarcasm targeted towards LGBT inclusion requests. Brilliant!
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That's the whole point here. To have a romance unlike what currently consitutes romances in cRPG. So, conclusion from what you say is, that i proved this point. Then my debating tactic must be quite right, actually She was a romance storyline used as plot hook. Which a very desirable thing in my opinion.
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What makes you think Avellone wants to write Biowarian romances? I don't know what his position is on romance/sex minigames, but I certainly don't think it can be assumed that he would want to write the game equivalent of romance novels or melodramatic soap opera stuff. And now please go back and read my posting again in context, where I write that Obsidian would be perfect for writing non-biowarian romance. And I surely hope it will be other way around. Given that they did put plenty of romances into their own games, they will likely ignore any romance bashing and just do it their way Now, I just want these romances to be better. Not only it is something I can ask for - just like any other thing, really - but I am pretty sure that if there will be romance subplot, it will be optional. Deionnara's example is pretty good: she was a lover of one of Nameless One's previous incarnations. Nothing forces the player to treat her like that, and if he doesn't want - it's not a game breaker.
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Yes. Which brings us back to number 1. Look, if anybody can do it right it's probably these guys. But do I want time wasted on such nonsense? No. Would I actually ask for it? Hell no. Would I start a thread insisting a cRPG include it? Oh, hell no. Okay, whatever floats your boat. I'm just trying to get to you with this: i feel that you don't really think this topic is unappropriate for video games, them being childish and so. It all gets down to you having other priorities. Which you are obviously fully entitled to have. But that's what makes difference between uncaring and unwanting (does that word even exists? ). I agree, and that's why I see Project Eternity as a perfect opportunity. There is a talentend writing squad on board that don't have to give a flying fish about drawing audience with fanservice. They *can* create interesting romance subplots, and I would like them to because it may be the only shot at this ever in the gaming industry. No, in RPGs there are choices. In books you're being told a story. In RPGs you're role playing the character in the story. In text-based cRPGs the only real differences are some aspects of physical presentation - which is not relevant in case of romances - and that story is branching instead of linear. The latter does not present any additional obstacles with regards to romances than with overall storytelling. I don't really get what you are talking about here. Nobody ever asked for what you're describing.
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With 2 I do agree, but with 1 - text-based game seems just as fine to tackle this as a text-based book. The only factor left is how skilled writer is. No?
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are polls useful to obsidian?
Reddie replied to vattghern's topic in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
I don't think polls are useful to them, the amount of voters is really too small to justify any decision. But I do think polls threads can be useful, just as any other. -
Wasn't it your point that everyone who would like romances wants them BioWare way? Just trying to take a grasp here.
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I personally have no problem with sarcasm. But some people tend to think that sarcasm justifies hostility and if someone disagrees, well, he just didn't understand their highly intelligent remarks! Sarcasm is a rethoric tool, a way to show hole in someone's reasoning. I.e. when you would say something along the lines of "yeah, cause there are a plenty of games showing the romances can be done right!", you're making a point. This is sarcasm (not very sarcastic, I know, but just to illustrate), but leaves space for reasoning. Use your sarcasm all you want to make a point. Don't use it to mock or ridicule or impute some opinion I haven't endorsed. Or whatever, do what you like. Some people just like being hostile.
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No. Anyone who selectively misinterprets my posting, repeatedly attempts to mock it (and others, too), tries to ridicule an argument by writing caption implying I am of some opinion I never even touched here in this topic... Yeah, if someone does all of it, I consider him hostile. There can be an exchange of opinions or there can be flame. You guys are attempting your best to make it so.
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You've again built yourself a straw man. I wrote that I can turn to their games for poor quality romance, granted. This contradicts ANY possible option of me liking romance subplots in their games. And yes, they are doing something right, they are making games from a nearly dying genre of story-driven cRPG. It's not like I have much choice here. That being said, my last BioWare game was ME2 and I don't plan to change that in predictible future
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I don't know what you mean by this, but Obsidian owes you nothing just because you want a romance and donated. It's a donation not an investment. You're right. You don't know.
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Why is that sad? I'm an adult and feel completely comfortable calling videogames one of my guilty juvenile pleasures. I don't look to them to fulfil me the same way an Ingmar Bergman film or T.S. Eliot poem would. I play videogames to play games. To have fun using strategy, solving puzzles and hopefully get entertained with some fresh, interesting and well-implemented stories and ideas. But even the most well-written games (PS:T for instance) do not come anywhere near the most well-written films, books or poems. It is what it is. UH OH CUE VIDEOGAMES VS ART CONVERSATION IN 3...2...1... Video games are art, in that they are a creative product of human mind. They are not art by definition in terms of conveying some deeper meaning, evoking thoughts and feelings. But nontheless, I would count a few games in there. Yes, PS:T included. Now, you do realise that having so hostile attitude towards differing opinions as yours is quite impolite, do you?
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Okay, and how it makes no sens that if I am willing to back this project up, I do have a certain degree of confidence in it's authors? I can't speak for all the "romance crowd", but speaking for myself, I increasingly see this issue as battle between gamers and roleplayers. Some people play cRPG to beat it, in whatever way they feel good with. Which is all fine and dandy. Then, some other people play cRPG to experience a story - much as they read a book, watch a movie etc. Now, romances are often attempted by writers as an incentive for PC to do something. Gamers don't need this, to them the game itself makes and incentive, thus they see romances as unnecessary and perhaps wasteful in terms of developer resources. That said, I obviously prefer no romance at all vs having badly written romance. I have enough of these in recent BioWare ventures. I don't think most of the anti-romance crowd would say something similar, as to them romance can only be, let me read these posts... Ah, yes - sad, childish, cheesy, and so on. What a terribly uncomplicated arguments you people have.
