JJ86

Ronald, get a life. This thread was dead when it was first posted.

I can't imagine there being multiple definitions unless somebody made a false assumption. CRPGs are an extension of D&D roleplaying. Not much guesswork involved here unless you want to nit-pick to the nth degree?

You are teh sassy one.

Ha! Descend? WTF?

Run and hide, cover your genitals, Killz is in the house.

San Francisco Journal Article - 2/6/2004 RPG Codex Thread 2/14/04

Nice way to steal a topic. Do you cull topic ideas from all the forums you visit?

I think people should lighten up on their precise definitions especially when in the context of the topic it is obvious what is intended. This isn't rocket science, so don't make it out to be. The flexibility of the gameplay is more important than aesthetics IMHO. Giving a player many options is very important for everything in the game. For example I prefer accessing many interface options with keyboard shortcuts instead of clicking on the GUI with the mouse. Standard Windows navigation methods like [Tab], [Pg-Up], etc are very good ways to access different things. The more shortcuts, the better. Flexibility is also good in the way problem-solving is allowed. A CRPG should allow many-ways of getting things done. Guns or swords should only be one way among many. Nearly all gamers have a great imagination, better than graphics could ever accomplish. Designers should weave text into the graphics to a larger degree. More verbose descriptions and dialogues would be a great option for those of us that want a sweeter experience. It might be tougher to translate into multi-language editions but I feel it is worth the effort.

I won't partake in this discussion but I would rather that the discussion take place here for those of you that need to get it off your chests. Its a reasonable request.

Sorry Di, I made a new thread here to discuss that topic: http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=299 I always think it is better not to mix threads and prefer discussing one thing in one topic. Sorry if I discouraged other discussion but I like to stay on topic and I would prefer not stooping to name-calling but will not shy away when confronted by others.

K, here is a new topic for those of you that want to discuss if it exists and what it constitutes. Have good fun! HA!

No, I really did not want to get into the obvious nit-picking about what a non-linear game is. For some reason the question turned into that discussion and as a result has turned nasty. All I wanted was quick and simple info on specific software tools. I appreciate your help on offering me that info!

Yes everyone says that my original question is so poorly written. It has to be difficult to understand this: "What are the tools that writers use to fully map a non-linear story?" I mean it could mean anything to someone who doesn't speak English and I'm sure animals have absolutely no clue..... Let me ask this; is English your first language?

But only if its done well by a good voice actor. In JA2 I grew sick of hearing the same lines over and over when the NPCs were tired or just bitching.

Heh, no unless your name is also crakkie or Monte Carlo.

He answered my question about tools?

Does anyone know why Gromnir keeps replying in this thread? I haven't taken the time to read any of his posts...

Exactly, because in most RPGs you reach a point where the designer didn't include the variation for the specific PC type. I prefer text over voice because a believable voice is more difficult and memory intensive for the engine. The technology just isn't there right now. Text interaction is good but I'd like to see something that isn't canned (i.e. picking an answer from a list.). Chatbots are interesting uses of technology and would be cool to see in a game. A favorite chatbot can be found at http://www.a-i.com/ . Try Alan or HAL. This would be an interesting way to interact with NPCs. If you entered the specifics of your character at the game's beginning and it kept track of your current appearance , it could add a very interesting dimension. Imagine conversing with chatbots with personality that responded to your specific character!

I'd like to keep this topic away from the definition of "Non-linear" or "Story", it is a can of worms when people are confused based on a singular experience. Let us suffice to say that non-linear has two meanings as alluded to here. This essay also gives some insight that I was looking for. Namely that it makes it easier to write a script that can fork into many directions if you, "... work with scene-based (rather than story-based) scripts." The second approach of fully user-based direction is more complex and may not be possible in the game context. I think that a scene-based creation makes it easier to handle and cerate outcomes to events. In M. Carlo's example there are many ways to handle the problems of the inoperative phones. Some of these methods will lead the player down some wild paths. All those paths or at least a large number of them should be accounted for. If some lead to a dead end then the player must go back to solve the problem again. Sometimes the wrong path will lead to the problem's end (e.g. the lock was hopelessly jammed). Also back to my original post, I finally found an excellent tool which can be used to visualize the multiple connections such a non-linear story will have. Check out Storyspace. Its a little pricey but there is a demo available. But if you have a hundreds of scenes, each with a large number of outcomes, you need something heavy-duty to keep the threading intact. This is obviously the type of situation where keeping track of the story on paper is going to only confuse things. I think someone should start a thread to discuss the definitions of various terms. There definitely is alot of confusion on "non-linearity" but that discussion should be held elsewhere so that this thread doesn't get sidetracked any more than it has already.. *******************************************************************

It is also used in 2d graphical systems by using alpha channels. Fallout Tactics used it to good effect and allowed a greater variety based only on a few models. Its definitely a necessity to give less of a cookie cutter feel. But in 3d engines isn't it just as easy to put a new skin on model?

Thanks Crakkie, that sheds some light on my original question. Anyone else want to take a crack at shedding light on what tools they use to map out the non linear story? It seems that using a simple 2d mapping like a flowchart may be adequate when many overlapping variables are used. I was thinking a 3d spreadsheet may be better attuned to connecting diverse nodes. Ideally consider that a large number of options are available to the player to start with, such as sex, race, karma and even attributes. All of these would have a definite influence on the progression and direction of the game. I enjoy when games take into account variaitions based on these user choices. Then also add into the mix how alliances throughout the game can turn the game's story. But as a writer you still want to allow for a number of diferent endings. It can be almost like writing dozens of alternate stories based on similar situations. Kind of like in Groundhog Day where Bill Murray lived through the same situations but chose different approaches to events. Each approach led to a different result. Or even in 12 Monkeys where Bruce Willis was trapped reliving the same situation. He managed to discover new information in each iteration but still was doomed to the same end. It is a different way of thinking about a story and really needs to handled specially in a game to avoid getting bogged down when getting to production.

Sequels should at least add an improved engine as well as much improved gameplay. I would not label something done with the same engine as a sequel when it is more of an expansion pack.

I played UFO Aftermath with it's RT w/ Pause and was wholly unimpressed. Maybe it was poorly implemented but I felt I had less control than a more purely RT such as FOT. I didn't mind FOT combat but it was designed so that you did not have to deal with too many melee enemies at once. It really needed to be scripted in such a way as to make the battles manageable. All in all the scripted battles of TB games are more interesting than any other method.

Why is it necessary to post in a thread where you have nothing to add beyond insults? IMO, this is behavior that should be discouraged if not a bannable offense.

A non-linear story is generally accepted as a story that changes direction based on varied inputs or variables. It also can mean that certain sequences can be arranged in various orders. In the context of Mateas and Stern's work, Facade there is a starting point and a resolution but depending on the player's direction the story can have different resolutions. The game is entirely non-linear. Compare to a game like Max Payne 2 which is almost entirely linear in that there is one beginning and one resolution. Most RPGs allow for the story to take many different directions as it progresses depending on character variables as well as the sequences with which you interact with the NPCs. The end story ideally will diverge to offer many resolutions depending on the path you take throughout the game. But what tools are used to keep track of this process? How do you map the possible pathways in a game where one action will create a divergence along two routes? It becomes increasingly complex as the game progresses to keep track of the many variables. I assume that professional writers use a tool more advanced than pen and paper. Is there a type of database that helps to keep track of this info so that there isn't any continuity errors?