Drowsy Emperor

What the **** has this thread turned into

They're defensive about ISIS because they see themselves as the underdog and the jihadis as their champions. The west has spent a lot of time bombing the **** out of the middle east, they know they're outmatched militarily and see themselves as the victim (which they often are). Logically from that point of view the jihadis are the sole few brave enough to strike back against western oppression a.k.a heroes, but since they can't openly state that in Paris or Rome so they do the next best thing which is to either say nothing or justify ISIS in some way.

You can expect the same outcome for as long as there are individuals who believe enough in Islam. And unlike the Soviet Union and its Baader-Meinhof types, jihadis of their era, you will not see Islam wither away in a few decades. At least for as long as the great majority of the masses that comprise the faith are inevitably poor (therefore difficult to seduce with a middle class hedonistic lifestyle), and in a constant state of population expansion (which ensures they stay relatively poor). And if the native population of Europe continues the trend of shrinking birth rates and importation of low wage workers from Islamic countries that they cannot successfully assimilate (as has been proven repeatedly) then the problem will last until a tipping point of some sort is reached. The problem is not the odd terrorist attack or in Islam itself, its the lack of a stable European identity that goes beyond "let's keep our wealthy status quo ad inifinitum". If Europeans knew who they were, positioning vis-a-vis Islam or any other entity would be much easier. The position of the great majority of muslims versus Europeans is fundamentally one of enmity based in religion. You can think what you like of that attitude, but its clear and logical. The position of Europe versus Islam is to ignore this aspect of muslim identity, create a separate category for the most combative ones ("extremists") thereby sweeping the problem under the rug and essentially pretending that nothing is happening. The European "solution" of expecting them all to become little secular Frenchmen and Germans, singing La Marseillaise and reading Goethe was a bit... presumptuous... to begin with. Truth to be told I can't blame them for not wanting to read Goethe And yeah. We had plenty examples in history. Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Rome etc. With Rome being the best example as it ell to religious turmoils and barabrian invasions Its more akin to christianity taking over Rome than anything else. The clash of a culturally unfocused and weak civilization with a monotheistic religion of the underdogs, but bizarrely, without the Roman oppression and a much more combative opponent. Blindly copying USA's "melting pot" model doesn't work in the EU because European countries simply don't have USA's vicious police control and a very focused upper class, that although lacking in real culture, still has a very clear idea of what its doing and how to achieve it. When the upper circles in the US felt threatened by anything from the workers movement to the black panthers they identified the threat and dealt with it mercilessly from the very start. Every single method was legitimate and used, right down to assassination, or using the army to intervene on the other side of the world. The EU refuses to recognize the threat and develop means of dealing with it and therefore is only there to pick up the pieces when something like this happens.

You can expect the same outcome for as long as there are individuals who believe enough in Islam. And unlike the Soviet Union and its Baader-Meinhof types, jihadis of their era, you will not see Islam wither away in a few decades. At least for as long as the great majority of the masses that comprise the faith are inevitably poor (therefore difficult to seduce with a middle class hedonistic lifestyle), and in a constant state of population expansion (which ensures they stay relatively poor). And if the native population of Europe continues the trend of shrinking birth rates and importation of low wage workers from Islamic countries that they cannot successfully assimilate (as has been proven repeatedly) then the problem will last until a tipping point of some sort is reached. The problem is not the odd terrorist attack or in Islam itself, its the lack of a stable European identity that goes beyond "let's keep our wealthy status quo ad inifinitum". If Europeans knew who they were, positioning vis-a-vis Islam or any other entity would be much easier. The position of the great majority of muslims versus Europeans is fundamentally one of enmity based in religion. You can think what you like of that attitude, but its clear and logical. The position of Europe versus Islam is to ignore this aspect of muslim identity, create a separate category for the most combative ones ("extremists") thereby sweeping the problem under the rug and essentially pretending that nothing is happening. The European "solution" of expecting them all to become little secular Frenchmen and Germans, singing La Marseillaise and reading Goethe was a bit... presumptuous... to begin with.

What a bizarre thing to say. You do realize that the legal framework that allows for refugees to flow en masse to other countries without fear of being persecuted or immediately turned back was developed as a direct result of WWII, right? Not to mention the fact that during WWII, there weren't that many places to flee towards, it's called a world war for a reason. And, oh, the levels of mobilization reached meant that conscription was at a level unseen before or since, thankfully. This was not the best and bravest gallantly fighting the good fight as much as it was an entire generation of men being thrown into the industrial meat grinder of WWII because there was simply no escaping it. Many others just accepted the fact that their countries had surrendered and tried to make the best of a ****ty situation under German rule. And while we're discussing history: Germanic tribes pushed into a declining Roman Empire in large numbers because their lands were being overrun by the Huns. So yeah, basically war is bad news and if you're smart you'll try to avoid it as best you can. On the other hand, I hear disposable heroes are always in high demand... You'r wrong. Much of WWII was a genuine ideological conflict, particularly on the Eastern front. Many young men threw themselves into the war, because they explicitly believed it a was a fight worth fighting, whatever their concrete reason was (for Hitler or against Nazism, protection of the "motherland" etc.). There was a lot of genuine zeal, even in the face of death. Even post WW1 german writers like Ernst Junger show no regrets for fighting even though he was personally wounded fourteen times and watched many of his friends and comrades die. He wrote Storm of Steel, and from what I read of it, he was proud of the fight to the end. And while we're on the subject of zeal, It is precisely this inability to concieve that ideas may be worth dying for or killing for, a result of Europe's war on religion, the nation state and any other form of belief modern man can attach value to (that great postmodern relativism) that impedes your (as in western) understanding of political Islam. Shuffling it all away as a socio-economic problem, some "extremists" being bonkers or whatever is a sort of willful stupidity and blindness that would be comical to watch from the sidelines if the results weren't so catastrophic. Islam is not going to accept the status of "one of many ineffectual religions we have in our society", like in the ridiculous American model. If you believe then it is the only religion, much as Christianity was in its own heyday, and it will fight for that status everyone else be damned. That's the nature of belief - only a closet atheist/secularist can profess to belong to a religion that explicitly considers itself the only valid one, while stating that "they're all equal" at the same time. That's illogical at best, schizophrenia at worst.

People did mourn for Russia, people left flowers at the consulate here. But Kenya and Lebanon are places where people rightly or wrongly see violence as the background. Beirut was a synonym with a warzone not long ago. Paris also had heavy media coverage due to the place it took place, nastiness of it (similar to the Mumbai attacks in terms of coverage) and social media. I doubt Lebanese or Kenyans or Iraqis really give much of a crap when Westerners die. Besides, if there is an outpouring of grief for anyone that dies en masse, fatigue or some mental trauma is inevitable Beirut in the 70's.... look no further than how the women are dressed. Before the Israelis screwed the Palestinians, and Palestinians screwed up Lebanon.

Heh, yeah... http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/video-surfaces-making-threats-against-muslims-in-quebec As for the Turkish fans booing that, eh, I guess they think Europeans dislike them and didn't care when a bunch of them got blown up a while ago. There was a time when Turkey aspired more to be like European countries and abandoned much of its islamic heritage, but ever since the US helped Erdogan to power (even if they may not like him much now) he's done a 180 and orientated Turkey toward the muslim world, inching toward a quasi fundamentalist state. Once Turks realized that the process of joining the EU isn't going anywhere they didn't have much to turn to either. Regrettable, but frankly, no one really wants to see Turkey in the EU anyway, at least no one in the Balkans.

The shocking thing is this widespread belief that Canadians are nice and civilized and Americans are barbarians, while Canada has tagged along for every other US war, its foreign policy consisting mostly of nodding when US officials are speaking. If I was an American, I'd practically be offended that Canada gets a free pass for everything.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/18605/breaking-the-taboos-in-the-wake-of-paris-attacks-the-left-must-embrace-its Oh Zizek, you glorious bastard. That's really common sense on Breivik's part. Immigrants are not to blame for Norway's immigration policy. Like most "far right" individuals, he piles the blame on "cultural marxism", or what's it really is - the current European identity and the people creating it. It does not take a genius to realize that the current policy of deconstructing the national identity, destroying religion and creeping extreme capitalism (slowly strangling worker rights and welfare as per the American model) is a dead end street for a continent that has known better, and should know better. If Europe becomes like the USA, it might as well not exist.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/17/serbian-police-arrest-man-with-syrian-passport-matching-paris-attackers When Serbia has a better idea of who is crossing its borders than the EU you know that things have gone down the drain.

France also embodies one of the worst colonial powers, a legacy they carry on to this day - if you don't believe me look at the smoking hole where Lybia used to be. I'm outspoken against muslim immigration and multiculturalism on this forum, but turning a blind eye to the reality of one of the root causes for what happened in Paris serves no one. I presume the people of France are against these wars but until they realize their politicians are painting a target on them with their actions, there is no way this is going to be set straight.

Says the man in whose country less 1.5% of the population practices Islam. Having lived in southern Africa I can attest that Islam is about as relevant in that region as snowshoes are in the Sahara. You never let up with your passive-aggressive bull**** do you?

But they're not going to set their own government building on fire for participating in the disintegration of Syria? You know, the greatest irony here is that ISIS is mostly ex Saddam's regular Iraqi army that the US left without a job after wrecking Iraq. You don't see the wisdom of leaving trained soldiers jobless in a ruin of a state questioned on CNN these days.

Well StB and I am sure that KGB said the bolded thing the whole time as well I am sorry to tell that, but I really do not know, if I should laugh or facepalm about your naivity. Infinite power corrupts infinitely, and mass surveillance of your own citizens is a pavement made out of sweet talks and fearmongering into the acquiring infinite power... The real problem with using mass surveillance to fight terrorism is that the very idea hinges on an insanely paranoid projection regarding the number of domestic terrorists. With the population of the US, if there aren't tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands of terrorists working on domestic soil, the number of false positives you get is certain to drown out any relevant information you could possibly gather. "LOOK AT WHAT YOU MADE ME DO!" When you sound like an abuser in search of excuses, maybe it's time for some introspection, eh? When you're setting the stage for something horrible, maybe its not appropriate to be surprised when it happens?

Politicians are all dip****s, but anything is better than the anti-nationalist self-destructive european left. If Europe goes back down the road of fascism, it will be the pseudo-left's uncompromising attitude that pushed people into it. To create a truly multicultural, tolerant society, you have to be tolerant yourself. People can't be forced to like or accept anyone, whether its Pride parades or muslims. It must happen organically, (the way you get to know a foreigner or someone different than you, realize that he's a good person and remain friends with him/her for years to come) or not at all - and definitely not as a social engineering project devised in Brussels or Washington. European parties united to ostracize and cut off any (truly) conservative (often christian) political parties from politics. The amount of hate piled one anyone expressing these views (especially on universities), even in their most moderate form is incredible, especially for societies that have actually sprung out of these roots. Its no surprise that they're boomeranging back in a harsher form than necessary because of all the repression.

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fairSorry, but closing mosques, which serves to all of muslims, instead of bringing to justice the radical imams, which are spreading the hatespeach is retarded and will bring more death upon French, because it will be used only for propaganda of ISIS and their likes. It will solve nothing. And I suppose you know, in the ghettos of Paris, in small mosques where everyone knows everyone else, when they're preaching in arabic - which one of them is spreading hate and which isn't? What do you think, that they're that stupid?

I think the "for Syria" cry, of one of them, before he blew himself up explained more or less everything. Frankly, as a Serbian I felt more at home in Slovakia than in any of the nearby countries I've been in (Austria, Czech republic, Hungary). I'm sure you know what the current political situation is, but when all is said and done, Slovakia doesn't have a real problem and you should be glad that that's the way it is. And you should be happy that your prime minister is smarter than Merkel, Hollande, Vucic and the rest of them put together. Down the line, he is doing you a favor.

Interesting. And how exactly the west is planning to remove him? Assassination? Nah, making life so hard for regular russians, due to various embargos, that they would remove him from power themselves. Well, as a russian, i can only thank the west for that. They're doing something useful for a change. Can't wait when he's finally gone. Ah you're one of those types. That explains everything.

If the west wasn't so obsessed with removing Putin and puttin' another Yeltsin in charge of Russia, a lot of this would have never come to pass and they'd have an ally instead of an enemy. But then, if the foreign policy of Germany and France is going to be decided in Washington, then they deserve no better than what's coming to them.

@ BruceVC Please don't tell me how I feel and refrain from commenting on anything on I write if at all possible.

Please tell me more what would happen in my own country, because i obviously don't know anything about it. If you think that Chechnya achieving independence under the guise of Islamic liberation would have had no effect on other homogenous islamic regions then you have no idea how politics work, and those principles apply not only to Russia, but anywhere else.

Exactly nothing. Political aptitude test score: 0.

And what you're talking about has nothing to do with Islam but Chechnya, and the fact that it's ruled pretty much by a bunch of bandits, by people who faught against Russia. But sure, f it. Let's oversimplify everything and blame Islam for the incredibly complex issues happening around the world right now. That will surely solve every problem. You must be especially short sighted. What do you think would have happened in other Russian islamic regions if Chechens weren't beaten down? Its nice to sit in Moscow and preach equality and world peace, but go to Sarajevo, or Pristina or any other muslim ****hole and we'll see how your rights fare. I could do the same from Belgrade, but then I'd have to ignore the fact that it took us three hundred years to throw the pests out and even that didn't save us from two wars with them in the last thirty years.

The EU is not really tolerant. As ktchong explained on page 2, EU tolerance is an extremely selective thing - and that can easily be proven with their approach to immigration. While asians and people from white christian orthodox regions of Europe, aka the non-catholic Slavs have to jump through many hoops to successfully immigrate, muslims get a free pass, even though a cursory examination of the criminality and risks associated with the former shows that they're are demonstrably lower than those coming from muslim immigrants. Then there is the matter of internal tolerance. If you speak out against the Pride parade, multi-culti society, you're immediately branded a far right zombie Hitler, your career is destroyed and efforts are made to completely shut you out of your own society. Down the line you'll be punished more harshly for speaking than someone else is for being an outright criminal. All is not well in the EU, but, as they say - the fish rots from the head. In that respect its not really the muslims who are to blame.

If you think moderate muslims are going to shed a tear over people getting blown up in France, then you're an idiot. After decades of interventions and wars, often caused by the West, they have just as large a chip on their shoulder as ISIS fighters. On any muslim TV station/newspaper, the order of blame for anything is as follows: Zionists, USA and EU crusaders. They literally have no other cultural enemies, and every muslim grows up in a culture where this is "common knowledge". Whether its actually true or not is not important, beliefs trump truth anyway. What remains is for the muslim individual to care or not to care about these things, or to do or not do anything them. Naturally most aren't going to do anything about it, but that doesn't mean that they think like you or tolerate your presence more than they must. Everyone who thinks that all of them are going to turn into starbucks drinking, iphone totting, gay friendly "progressive" europeans is a hopeless ideologue or a moron. ... Always this same naivete: "its not all muslims, its just the bad ones!", as if there is any real difference or way to tell them apart on the streets of Paris, London, Berlin or Belgrade until you get blown to bits. The bottom line is really simple, you either live with the risk or remove the source and the risk along with it. If your society can't function without cheap labor from muslim countries... well then, it sucks to be you.