Purkake

By careful and systematic self-delusion? Just kidding.

This is eerily similar to what I said in the last thread

Hey, it worked for Seinfeld.

Bayonetta

Going from one extreme to another, good job! Moderation is the key.

As I said Bioshock isn't bad, my problem with it is that it could have been so much more. As it stands it's a mediocre RPG with high production values or an above-average shooter with a good story. It could have been the next Deus Ex or System Shock 2.

I see people playing their sequels, just as I see people playing Bioshock 2(or whichever number they are at) in a few years.

Going solely by the shooting mechanics, most of them. Bioshock was a good shooter only because it had a decent story(by shooter standards at least) and some RPG elements in it. Farcry 2, Crysis, COD4 all had much better shooting mechanics, they just didn't have much in the story department. Half-Life 2, especially EP2 was a much better game overall, even if it's shooting mechanics were showing their age as well. The difference is that Bioshock wasn't trying to be "just another shooter" it was actually trying to be an RPG, but ended up as a shooter.

Sure it's better than your average shooter, but I expected much more from Ken Levine. Like more RPG elements and gameplay that isn't based around a single mechanic(Big Daddies and Little Sisters).

Perhaps, but with all the other similarities to System Shock 2, including the same writer, it just feels lazy. While the presentation is top notch the story itself(at least Jack's part) is pretty convoluted and contrived IMO. The things I liked in Bioshock were the art design(including the music) and the whole failed utopia thing they had going on there. Most of the other stuff was either mediocre or bad.

I mean the other twist,

Well, not any. Ever try to polish a turd? I'll be bowing to Obsidian if they can do anything remotely passable with what Bethesda is giving them. Obsidian isn't polishing anything. For all intents and purposes, they are making a new game. But don't let that stop your obsessive Bethesda hate.

Well, you're missing out. The fan novelization is only ~170 000 words, but because of all the possible permutations the actual game script was around 800 000 words.

If it's not, any blame should be on Obsidian.

But they are still a good publisher, right?

You can look at the Quick Look if you really want to, but from what I remember it's basically a tossup between God of War and Bayonetta.

@Will: Yeah, I especially liked the part where they ripped off right down to the plot twist and then threw in some for good measure. Awesome stuff.

Even if you have reasons to dislike Bethesda as a developer, they have done a stellar job as a publisher in the recent years. Just take financing FO:NV and having Obsidian develop it. If not for that Obsidian might very well be bankrupt by now.

Too bad about the story, eh?

Darksiders Complete with a potential Reaper reference, yay!

Try not to get too bent out of shape over what I posted, it's just a theory I heard on a podcast IIRC. Nothing more than a different way of looking at things. Orogun01, I highly recommend paragraphs.

The basic idea is that because developers started out making games simple stories(or no stories), the audience accepted that. Then new developers mostly catered to what the audience wanted thus creating a feedback loop that discouraged more intelligent games in favor of more fun ones.

More like how pop(hey, that's almost a pun) stars become celebrities because no one would listen to their crap otherwise.

That's an excellent idea on any play through

Someone had an interesting theory that more than anything, the problem is the developers themselves being just immature or washed up writers who use it as an avenue to finally publish their epic story that all the movie and book people rejected. So it's not the gamers that were immature, but the developers that slowly established the current "gaming culture" and now it's just a negative feedback loop.