BruceVC

I like multiculturalism, I believe it makes for a stronger society and a society where we can be different races, religions, cultures but we share common values.....we have to accept the values of the country we want to live in and if you cant accept those values then you need to immigrate somewhere else . And that does not mean we now have no immigration control or force countries to accept all refugees , like the EU and the refugee crisis But end of the day multiculturalism is a good thing that will make us better people overall

Oh yes that makes loads of sense volo, we want to find meaningful similarities between GG and the Trump presidency because GG was a huge success....right volo

Now here are some realistic and optimistic words around the future of the USA and its from Warren Buffett I agree with almost everything he says

Yes but have you wondered what caused the 'shy Trump voter' effect? If Trump supporters refuse to answer polls or pretend to be undecided then there must be reason for it and frankly I think most of it lies with the media. Apparently women and minorities were big part of the statistical error and I'd say they were ashamed to admit they were voting for a man labeled a misogynist and a racist. Absolutely, yes the " shy Trump " impact needs to be discussed in its own thread. I want to make this post later Many Republican supporters do indeed have issues with the media and how the media represents certain facts, they feel the media is biased and generally only reflects one side of most events or political developments

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/12/politics/nigel-farage-donald-trump-meeting/index.html Its confirmed, at least one politician in the Western world is happy with the US election result, NIgel Farage

Yes volo, in the US there are uninformed people on both sides of the political spectrum Whats your point? Should we all post hundreds of videos where they always interview people who don't understand much of politics and say things like " look everyone...look how stoooooopid the Americans are " . Its biased, inaccurate and childish and doesn't reflect the intellectual reality of the USA

Hillary was an outrageously bad candidate but still nearly won. The large majority of the country still votes the party line no matter how awful their candidate. In general, the independents bounce back and forth every 8 years after they finally get tired of the failed promises of the current administration or are simply bored with it and want a different flavored bubblegum. But, I will say that Trump's victory, without any media support whatsoever, is pretty substantial. Will it revolutionize anything? Probably not, but it's still unique, to say the least. Trump had media's support. There wasn't day during his campaign that media didn't speak about him. Media talked about him so much that his nearly non-existing plans to realize his promises were washed away by nonsensical sensationalist headlines. His lack of candidates in government jobs was realized after he won his campaign. And press successfully made people forgot what kind policies people in Trumps inner circle have, people who will most likely play part in new government. So some of the media smeared him and some plainly supported him but nobody seem to actually really questioning his ability to lead the country, which made him equal to Clinton when it come in choice as leader and then people had to only decide which one they hate more. In comparison to someone like Gary Johnson, Trump had media support, but I didn't expect to have to explain. Both the left wing and right wing media outlets were out against Trump from the start, and as others have pointed out, they're still slow to get why Trump was elected, doubling down on pro right or left talking points. No such thing as bad news fits here. It's like the more the elites tried to slam Trump, the more the independents supported him. So yeah, he won without major media backing of any sort, which was my point. But he had major media outlets that backed him, they didn't necessary promote him, but they did their best to villainize Clinton. Media outlets published articles after articles, how Clinton is traitor, criminal, distrustful, corrupt, old, sick, weak, woman, bad speaker, robot, lizard person, and so on. So major media didn't necessary promote Trump, but they did excellent job to make Trump look like lesser evil next to Clinton. Which is clear media backing even though it gives media houses excuse that they didn't directly supported Trump. When you add to this the fact that these same media outlets constantly release articles about Trump and his candidacy, and doing so making sure that people are aware that Trump exist and is the option for the Clinton. Of course there was also media organizations that demonized Trump and advocated Clinton as the lesser evil option, which is big part why there is now people protesting in the streets against Trump. Although Clinton did gather more media outlets that were willing to say that they support her presidency than Trump. I want to use this debate between Elerond and Blodhemn to discuss the role of the media in the election and its future. There is real bias towards the media from some members on this forum. Some of the criticism is understandable but much of it is irrational and much of it is unfair and unreasonable To address 1 spurious view on this forum, I'll make other posts like this over the next few days " The mainstream media is over\ This election highlights how biased the media is and how they get everything wrong " Absolutely is the media not going to vanish or become redundant just because of the bad predictions that were made about the election results. Networks like CNN did give extensive coverage to the US elections 2 weeks or so before the election but all international news channels cover multiple global events all the time and much of this has nothing to do with the US elections or focused only on the USA So in other words the revenue stream CNN gets comes from many more sources than just the " the US elections " , no media house is going to close down because of getting the polling data wrong and this is because the media has wide, global and varied news resources throughout the world that fund it and define what news they discuss But that doesn't mean the media should not address certain systemic failures that were highlighted in this election, for example one of the valid criticisms was how badly the polling data was off. How did this happen? I have heard various theories but yesterday I watched an interview with a US statistics professor and he explained what went wrong with the polling in the USA. His view makes the most sense Basically he explained it was all about the inaccurate view around what constituted the margin of error in the polling outcomes. When people were polled throughout the USA only the majority of Democrats responded who they were voting for, most Republican supporters refused to respond to the pollsters. So the majority of data gathered was an honest reflection of voting patterns but ONLY for Democrat supporters There wasnt enough Republican data and if there was it would been obvious how the Republicans were actually stronger in certain key battleground and swing states....predictions would have been very different from all media houses You can only really address this if all members of all parties participate in polls and provide honest answers. If this is not done then the polls will continue to be potentially inaccurate

Not at all, what dont you understand about these protests? I can explain anything you are unsure about ( well hopefully anything ) Explain why they burn their own flag. I always find the burning of any flag as an unhelpful development. But the burning of a flag by the citizens of a particular country of that country is more contemptuous, pointless and divisive than the protestors realize We know throughout the world the burning of another country's flag is suppose to be about the rejection of that country's ideology, policies and influence. For example the constant burning of the US flag in Iran before the Nuclear negotiations was reached was a statement highlighting the dislike of the USA But now in these protests we seeing US citizens burning their own flag, this is suppose to be about a rejection of Trump but by burning the US flag they actually unintentionally saying " we reject the policies, ideology and views of the USA " So in other words they are driven by real and understandable emotions but they have a misunderstanding of the electoral result ....and this misunderstanding manifests in certain outcomes like the burning of the US flag which is a pointless and unreasonable thing to do

You raise some valid points which surprises me because I normally think of you as " anti-USA " and therefore I am use to your views on the US being negative and not being constructive But yes I agree, Trump is not the real enemy because most of his offensive and divisive comments were more a political strategy to gain support and solidify his support base He is a good salesman and he also knows how to read social trends and what certain people in the US want or what worries them. So he constructed a political campaign that allowed him to defeat the established Republican institutions but also defeat the incumbent Democrats The consequences to his political strategy is he now has to deal with certain perceived and real negative views people have of him

And no one is expecting you to support violence or any damage to property during protests. This is never acceptable My point is I'm I am trying to get people to separate the violence from the reasons people are protesting. For example many forum members are dismissive of the actual protests and critical of the protestors and this is due to the violence we are seeing Yet we should be openly supportive of these types protests considering the vituperative nature of the 2016 election ....but we obviously condemn the violence. I hope this makes sense

Not at all, what dont you understand about these protests? I can explain anything you are unsure about ( well hopefully anything )

You may not have noticed, but violence is all coming from one side. If Clinton won, you don't think you'd have protesters going nuts right now? This was pretty much a no-win situation. Honestly? I seriously doubt it. GD and others my advice is try to see these protests and violence in a different context, this is simply how many people who feel frustrated vent and address institutionalized and societal " unfairness " So in this case many of the protestors have valid but misplaced views of the election results, Hilary won the popular vote yet she lost the election due to systems like the electoral colleagues:) So for many protestors they dont understand the election result as it seems inconsistent with what the majority of US citizens wanted But the election was a legitimate and legal outcome and no amount of protesting is going to change this result or somehow get Congress to redesign the entire US election process to make the popular vote the deciding outcome So we just need to understand and accept these protests are really about people demonstrating there frustration, you will always have degrees of protests and civil unrest Its not the end of the world If that had been the other way around and Trump won the popular vote and Clinton won the election they would not have a problem with it. Neither would anyone who actually supported Trump I might add. Lets call these people what they are. A bunch of overgrown children pitching a fit because they didn't get their way. Violence over an election is not OK. Not here, not anywhere else, not ever. F--k them. You'd feel a lot different if it was your property they were burning or your a-s they were kicking. GD now that the elections are over I am looking forward to these types of debates which are basically about social dynamics and events and our interpretation of them and what they really mean These protests should not be seen in the context of " violence and protests by dysfunctional human beings who dont understand how things work or wont accept the election results " If that is how you decide to see this type of event then you will never understand the real thinking or justification that is the actual reason for these types of protests. For example the violence you are objecting to is a result of how parts of the election were perceived So the next question is a simple one " do you want to understand the nature of these protests " ? This doesnt mean you need to agree with the reasons or support the violence. I dont support the violence I see in the protests and I live in a country where what you seeing now in the USA is what most of our protests end up being ...and in SA this has been ongoing for 22 years Its a complete strawman argument to ask me " how would I feel if my property was damaged " ...of course I wouldn't like it and I would be understandably upset But that still wouldn't change my view that protests like you seeing in the USA are the expected outcome to the divisive election we have seen and the actual election outcome. In Democracies this is how many people express their frustration and in many cases this occurs primarily in minority groups which is normal under the circumstances and real social dynamics that exist in the USA at the moment

You may not have noticed, but violence is all coming from one side. If Clinton won, you don't think you'd have protesters going nuts right now? This was pretty much a no-win situation. Honestly? I seriously doubt it. GD and others my advice is try to see these protests and violence in a different context, this is simply how many people who feel frustrated vent and address institutionalized and societal " unfairness " So in this case many of the protestors have valid but misplaced views of the election results, Hilary won the popular vote yet she lost the election due to systems like the electoral colleagues:) So for many protestors they dont understand the election result as it seems inconsistent with what the majority of US citizens wanted But the election was a legitimate and legal outcome and no amount of protesting is going to change this result or somehow get Congress to redesign the entire US election process to make the popular vote the deciding outcome So we just need to understand and accept these protests are really about people demonstrating there frustration, you will always have degrees of protests and civil unrest Its not the end of the world

volo this video is nothing but some unrelated criminal act ....where does it say they are Hilary supporters? But I did watch it to the end and I have to say the guy does look stupid putting a sign in an empty garden.. its obvious he wants to draw attention to himself ? Alright guys, I wanna see some really clever responses to this one. Bruce set up an amazing opportunity for you all to powerbomb him clear out of the sky, so let's not be ungrateful and let his efforts all be for naught. I don't wanna see anything cliche, anything too obvious or expected. Let's see some really original and creative retorts here. Let's put on a good show. Why bother with an idiot who thinks putting a support sign for a candidate in his own yard is justification for pulling a gun on him? Why do you guys in Poland also keep big signs in your gardens with the names of your favorite politicians ....it must a nightmare to maintain with those long Polish surnames you all have ..." zxadsadfggftsussnn " Yeah. Our presidents name is the same lenght as SA president, you racista nationalistic swine. Why you shouting at me? Im just trying to guess your politicians surname ..okay give me one more chance ? "myaxzrtyuoyuiuz " or " yarsvtewxzlllexrghwip " ...how did I do?

Tonight Im going with my best friend and his wife to a live music club for dinner and drinks

Why would you want that, are you supporting Trump volo I will be extremely disappointed in you if you now become a Trump supporter....that kind of hypocrisy makes me nauseous

It is emotional, it has been emotional in SA to Im surprised other members haven't noticed this? It's the refusing to discuss it part that interests me. If you dont mind me asking how did you approach the subject and also do you know what most women are upset about after this election? I can tell you what my g-friends shared with me if you not sure ? To be fair, she's not politically minded, she's upset because Hitler just got elected and pretty soon only blonde white men will be allowed to use the drinking fountains. I still feel sorry for her because her grief is real to her and you dont want anyone to get too sad over Trump

We all recovering from the disastrous Trump nomination

It is emotional, it has been emotional in SA to Im surprised other members haven't noticed this? It's the refusing to discuss it part that interests me. If you dont mind me asking how did you approach the subject and also do you know what most women are upset about after this election? I can tell you what my g-friends shared with me if you not sure ?

It is emotional, it has been emotional in SA to Im surprised other members haven't noticed this?

volo this video is nothing but some unrelated criminal act ....where does it say they are Hilary supporters? But I did watch it to the end and I have to say the guy does look stupid putting a sign in an empty garden.. its obvious he wants to draw attention to himself ? Alright guys, I wanna see some really clever responses to this one. Bruce set up an amazing opportunity for you all to powerbomb him clear out of the sky, so let's not be ungrateful and let his efforts all be for naught. I don't wanna see anything cliche, anything too obvious or expected. Let's see some really original and creative retorts here. Let's put on a good show. Why bother with an idiot who thinks putting a support sign for a candidate in his own yard is justification for pulling a gun on him? Why do you guys in Poland also keep big signs in your gardens with the names of your favorite politicians ....it must a nightmare to maintain with those long Polish surnames you all have ..." zxadsadfggftsussnn "

volo this video is nothing but some unrelated criminal act ....where does it say they are Hilary supporters? But I did watch it to the end and I have to say the guy does look stupid putting a sign in an empty garden.. its obvious he wants to draw attention to himself ?

I want to be supportive of the new US government because we don't want the US economy to suffer or Congress to be dysfunctional But Trump has set himself some ambitious goals

volo you cant really post a video like this and expect me to respond because before I give my opinion I need to confirm its real and if there is context? But saying all that the video is irritating because they really bully the guy and think its funny to humiliate him

We'll wipe our collective ass with it of course. I was serious but ok. Climate change deniers will soon be at the wheel. So was I. Pissed off coal people is a big reason Trump won. WOD this morning I was also angry, confused and upset about the results, I started blaming anyone who voted for independent candidates because at that stage of the day I hadn't realized I had made several incorrect assumptions about this election...these included I had incorrect assumptions about why all people supported Trump I assumed Trump was the bigot he came across as I over estimated the reasons why people were supported him I relied primarily on several news channels for certain updates ( I feel sorry for some the media as they got used to a certain degree) I still support Hillary but she wasn't a strong enough candidate and I didnt realize how much frustration some people felt towards her