BruceVC

This type of violence is unacceptable and should be condemned It doesnt matter what the race is of the victim and of course any human being is capable of any form of bigotry....this is an irrefutable scientific and physiological fact based on how all our brains work and how we think. This means of course black people can be racist, the question should not be that but rather " are you personally a racist " ....and if you are you can change your ways and dont be automatically prejudice towards people who have a different skin color

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/15/supreme-court-rules-workers-cant-be-fired-for-being-gay-or-transgender.html Here is some good news, the USA SC ruled you cannot fire someone for being gay...brilliant outcome and a victory for human rights

Really difficult to say, Im not sure

It was one of my CPT brothers wives 30th birthday on Friday so my sister planned a surprise lockdown " dine-in " experience with the excellent restaurant below, it involved 6 courses which were absolutely delicious. The best part was seeing some of my family again in person, first time in over 70 days https://www.lacolombe.co.za/dine-in-experience

Nice summary, puts somethings in the correct perspective

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-06-12/protective-shield-erected-around-cenotaph-and-winston-churchill-statue-ahead-of-protests-in-london/ It really is completely unacceptable that groups within the BLM protests vandalize important statues like the Cenotaph in London, these groups need to arrested and charged as quickly as possible

Why what great changes has Antifa been responsible for that aren't based on the obvious addressing of the unlawful profiling of African Americans, Antifa is not responsible for raising attention to this Antifa is in many examples just the opposite of right wing violence, they have no legitimate place in any Democracy and Im almost surprised you think they have been effective in using violence constructively

Guys lets not be studiously dismissive of what GD is saying and it is a valid point which I would have assumed most of us were aware of You generally cant take statements from any movement as complex as BLM as the absolute truth or rather the only acceptable opinion to have on a topic. Its never as simple as that in life For example there has been violence from some protesters and innocent people have been killed and yes they include members of the US police which are just doing there job. This doesnt mean we judge the whole BLM movement but you will never achieve the true buy in from society if your debate is based on comments like " BLM is non-violent and anyone who doesnt support them unequivocally is a racist and part of the problem " ...I am not suggesting you guys are saying this but lets be honest about violence where we see it

There deaths absolutely do matter for many reasons. Im glad you raised this but to be honest its not really new information or outcomes but rather its another example of the nuance and complexity with these types of protests and what are they really represent for different people on both sides which is generally the same anywhere in the world where people protest in mostly 1st world countries around numerous issues like Globalization, Climate Change , global financial system, global inequality , anti- Trump protests (some people outside of the USA spend loads of time criticizing and debating events in the USA but it is not well informed and has degrees of Bias and then unhelpful generalizations ....anyway Trump is partly responsible for this at times ) I follow different movements and global developments because they matter to me or are linked to my country, or I have family or good friends involved. Sometimes I follow events in countries because of the importance contribution these countries make to the global economy. My view on these topics is not the same as my views on SJ developments throughout the world where debates and discussions are ongoing around " how to make people more tolerant of other religions " (this is just am example ) My views around SJ has changed over the years but in a good way as I realized I was not seeing something obvious or rather I was looking at certain things in my view of the world and what works but I was not doing proper research into certain Internet SJ developments. I did learn where I was wrong and I always update my views and try to acknowledge my misunderstandings at the time. I learnt several incredibly important realities on this forum from having debates with members, for example GD when you pointed out to me the difference between commentary and reporting in the news media. I now see it when it happens and it causes me less vexation when people in the media do it.....excellent, small but important thing to understand if you follow different news channels The latest riots and protests that started in the USA due to the unlawful killing of George Floyd falls under my SJ views of the world, this just means we will all interpret them in different ways and have different views on some things but we should have common obvious agreement on a few fundamentals like the fact he was mishandled and an illegal form of restraint lead to his death....the cop involved must face several charges and we will see how complicate the other 3 are But this incident has created global outrage and many things have been said by different people. I agree with some protests but I will never accept any looting, burning down of shops and the killing of anyone including the US security forces like the police. But most of the people protesting are well meaning and arent part of the negative parts of the violence. Within the BLM movement there exists an extremist element and or condescending way people make certain points but since these people are not really people of influence so there is no point getting upset even if the media may repeat certain things So for me this is my current view on things and I always welcome peoples comments ....lets debate these things but please explain your view in as much detail as possible so I can understand the point But in summary here is my current view on things I have never believed the police in the US are all bad, I understand the views members on this forum have shared and I respect those views but I dont agree that you should generalize about an entire group that operates in every state and plays an absolutely vital role to the rule of law and order. So with the killing of George the people that dismissed the entire US police now are saying things like " all the police are responsible " ....but you can see from my side I didnt ever think all the police were bad and this incident just means we have to address criminal and or bigotry within the police in certain departments BLM is an American movement and this has now been replicated as the same issues throughout the world, even in countries have totally different social issues around racism. So its important to distinguish between US BLM objectives and other global issues that arent the same but may seem similar I have noticed how many white people have globally joined BLM protests in different countries. This should be seen as a positive step because in all Democracies any citizen is legally entitled to protest and express solidarity with a movement or ideology. You would hope that all people protesting are doing it with an understanding of what is the real objective and "what are you really asking for ". But its a personal choice and there should be no pressure, for example I have never taken part in any protest in my life with the exception of Gay Pride. For me some protests I am fundamentally opposed to but the main reason is I will support certain protests in principle because there broader goals are relevant and constructive but I dont believe you will achieve effective change through most protests. You normally need legislation and or new polices implemented and I would rather focus on this And then I am uncertain what the real changes people are demanding and or expecting? It reminds me a little of the gun control debate in the USA where after certain tragic mass shootings many people always want gun control enforced and basically use a logical, emotional and understandable approach which involves banning certain guns, enforcing more stricter gun ownership laws and improving mental health facilities. But it never gets through US congress for several reasons but most are not unreasonable. People outside the USA, like I use to , dont understand why most Americans dont agree to these changes but we are misunderstanding how many gun owners can absolutely sympathize with any victims and real frustration but the solution cannot be now " all gun owners must be held accountable for the small minority of extremists, ideologues and mentally disabled people who abuse gun control. You must also recognize that many Americans honestly feel gun control is a surreptitious attempt to undermine or control certain Constitutional rights and define what matters to being an American citizen and we must respect this as there are examples of this even if unintentional. For example suggesting all gun owners are these uneducated, rednecks who dont understand the basic problem is unhelpful and condescending So back to what BLM are asking for, I hear things like " we want an end to systemic racism " and " the killings of African Americans by the police cannot continue " , most of the comments are easy to understand but how do these things translate to practical changes that arent already in place? Finally I have to add there are certain groups or people that have hijacked the US BLM movement for there own agendas and ideological goals and quite simply this is not accurate or relevant In SA its been a mixed bag of spurious connections and people blaming all current social problems on things like " systemic racism in our economy and historical realities". Some people in our government have even formed an optional " US Black Friday South African support movement " because apparently US issues around police profiling and certain racist US developments are very relevant to us as " racism in the USA is the biggest problem in the world around why many black people are disadvantaged and live in poverty " But just in SA there are many examples of black people being killed unnecessarily outside of anything to do with racism and yet our government has never really publicly called this out So basically the killing of George must be condemned but we also shouldnt now create unrealistic societal objectives or blame things on this that have nothing to do with it

Elerond !!! Why you being an elitist about your job title....dont you know people outside of IT dont really know or care about our various job descriptions as we all seen as " computer PC people " But on a serious note, I appreciate your point and I can understand your own view on this but in most IT companies your job title reflects your experience and job responsibility and of course your salary. I studied finance but ended up working in software primarily in the financial sector. Basically I am a software consultant but there are different titles in IT that do matter, so you will have ( for example ) software consultant senior software consultant product specialist I imagine your company is the same, a coder is the beginner in programming but then as you advance you will get to senior software architect. I cannot believe your job responsibilities are the same ? But I also understand there is nothing wrong with referring to yourself as a coder because you still are one

So this is not about defending anyone and yes the majority of actual people who do this job dont fundamentally care because the work conditions and salary is much more important than what you and I want to call them But my real point is its not about them but what you and I personally decide to refer to them as, we are defined by our words in life in many areas so I always try to use the better framing of how we refer to things, domestic worker sounds much better than maid Ask yourself this, if you were doing housework as a permanent job how would you like people to describe your job title ?

I hear you and there is a cogent argument that supports your broader point For example in SA people , including domestic workers, often refer to themselves as " maids or servants " but I dont because domestic worker is just a better term to describe an important job So its a personal choice but there should be no real judgement if someone says maid or you shouldn't see it is a pejorative term

Certain topics are related to Corona and its outcomes but not specifically about the virus so I post them here after some consideration, so for me your post is about my initial virus related question around my domestic worker so its relevant Also I can only speak on behalf of myself but I have had so many debates on various Internet SJ and political forums through the years around well meaning but meaningless topics like " gender roles and how we should refer to people " that Im almost exhausted with anything new to add that people haven't heard before Nowadays I have these debates in RL when I occasionally have them

Funny you mention this but it has some truth to it, in SA I have never ever come across a male domestic worker and I wouldnt hire one on principle ...men do other jobs in SA But we also try not to use the word " maid ", we always say " domestic worker ". It sounds like one of those ridiculous "politically correct " labels but there is something demeaning about the word maid compared to domestic worker because the latter is a formal type of employment in SA where the person is suppose to get a contract and have work conditions

Sorry to hear about Bela. I remember when you took her in and how she immediately fitted into her new home You gave her an additional year of love and happiness and as far as old dogs are concerned it doesnt get much better than that ...and she returned those emotions which is even better

Volo I do support effective governments, not so much powerful but effective Sometimes citizens need to do what they told for the greater good of society, if we dont follow the rules and laws then we risk descending into chaos ....thats what makes us different to animals and beasts. We dont want to live in a world of anarchy and lawlessness, Im sure you will agree

Sounds great and an important social event.... the majority of human beings are gregarious creatures and we need social interaction with other people . I know I do Happy Birthday by the way

One of the real changes I have had to adopt to is I now have to do all my own housework.....its been a big learning curve as I use to have a weekly domestic worker How is everyone doing there housework...I imagine being married has its advantages here

What did you eat, who cooked and was there wine...its mandatory with social gatherings

Its been raining in Cpt yesterday and today so I wont be walking this morning but we move onto " level 3 " from the 1/06 and that means no more exercise curfew ...yaaaaaaaaaaay One of the numerous virus challenges we have is when kids go back to school, in SA we have real failures in some of our public schools...private schools are fine and offer excellent education but some of our public schools in rural areas still dont have working toilets. Schools are suppose to go back on 1/06 and already various teachers unions are saying they " refuse to go back " due to safety factors. Private schools are using remote learning and virtual classes so they should be fine to continue school year I am not convinced many of the unions have the best interest of there members or the institutions in mind ...they would be happy to be paid there salaries on tax payers money and continue not to work but we do have to consider the safety of teachers and students so Im expecting a mixed outcome of success and failure when we open the schools on 1/06 How is everyones country doing with restarting the school year? @ Hurlshot what is your opinion on reopening the schools as a teacher? Also another question what would happen if a country loses the school year, does that mean all students would have to redo the year in 2021. As a society we have never had to grapple with the difficult outcome of " what does it mean if you accept that the whole school year is lost and everyone repeats next year ".....is that even feasible ?

Its true, we were all wearing masks but that doesnt help with getting the virus but stopping spread....and I definitely was exposed in the taxi

Gorthfuscious !!! Im almost shocked by your cynicism, it feels like we have had this debate many times but its one of those ongoing discussions If you disagree with Democracies and the free market leading to a reduction in inequality what do you suggest should be a better model or system of government. I remember what they taught us at the " financial school of white male privilege "...they always use to say " if you dont agree with the current working system ...what is your realistic and feasible alternative " ? Solutions Gorthfuscious, solutions are better than criticism

So we did our long 7 mile walk this morning, it was great and well worth it but I learnt some lessons and things to avoid Firstly we weren't able to finish it due to certain delays and due to our 9 am curfew we had to take a taxi home the last 20 minutes or so. Secondly there were just far too many people on the beachfront roads ...it wasnt pleasant as you spend more time avoiding people than appreciating the actual walk. So we will avoid busy routes in future My partner took the pictures below, its a nice summary of this hike which starts off in the suburbs, takes you around a local mountain and you end up at the beach in a coastal town called Camps Bay and then you head back to town where I stay

But also the proof of the sustainability and success of all these other forms of governments outside of Democracies, like Communism and Socialism is the economic trajectory and outcomes All these so called " socialist " experiments end in abysmal economic failure for several reasons. Either that or there systems can only survive if you control freedom of speech, deny human rights and dont have a transparent legal system like China So of course these governments fail because intrinsically Democracy and all its supporting institutions do work and do help address inequality albeit with some flaws but nothing is perfect .....but consider the alternative...imagine living in China where the state tells you when you need to use the toilet

Hurlshot is right Volo, its unacceptable and disgraceful that you claim you dont have any means to make a face mask. If you have money to play PC games then you definitely can wear some sort of mask....lets not be intentionally difficult with something as easy as wearing a mask. This is a virus, its real and people get sick and die from it ...you need to play your part in ensuring a healthier world