BruceVC

This is an important point and I would also like clarity from the legal people on this forum like Gromnir and GD

Would you support the changing of the law to support the deployment of federal agents under these unusual circumstances?

Sorry Amentep but if Dp is correct, and Im sure he is, than the protesters were damaging federal property and I would also argue in some cases provocative when it comes to the police and federal agents So it still seems justified to deploy a federal response

But what do you honestly tell people when the " City/County/State " fails to do its job. Quoted from the link you provided But Acting DHS Secretary Wolf says local police aren’t doing the job. “What we know is that if we left tomorrow, they would burn thaBt building down,” says Wolf. Dont you think people who own a business could have a legitimate right to expect the state and the Federal government to protect there business from being damaged so just to repeat my earlier view on this, these are unusual circumstances and in the interest of law and order sometimes Federal intervention may be absolutely required We cannot have the mob defining rules and arbitrarily deciding when they obey the law and more importantly adhering to virus spread best practice

Do you think in the cases we are currently seeing, not generally, that the deployment of federal troops is justified by Trump, I do think law and order needs to maintained and sometimes using Federal agents may be required ?

Also you can trust the media on many types of factual reporting but commentary is subjective

Thanks for sharing, I agree with some of it and I look forward to future debates around how different views You asked " That India iconographic is cute. I wonder, if the person providing it @213374U, could highlight the differences in appearance, beliefs and current tech in those populations, if he would talk to an average joe from each area. What's the history and timespan which led to forming of a culture in that big area" Of course he wouldnt actually talk to citizens from the various states.....he is an armchair Internet activist who lives in a first world country, he isnt actually going to do this in RL where it matters Im just teasing 2133, he is very consistent to normal, reasonable SJ values so Im sure he would interact with anyone he likes and not been selective or haughty But where him and I will disagree is he also irrationally opposed to the proven benefits of the free market and prudent aspects of Capitalism like property rights. I am involved in the financial sector from a family and work perspective so its difficult to understand why people would be opposed to the demonstrably positive components of Capitalism and the systems of Democracies we all live in

Dark I am enjoying your posts but I dont know anything about you, if you dont mind sharing what are your political views, ideological views ....just general stuff so I understand what you believe and of course only share what you feel is relevant This article is not representative of what defines real sustainable countries, GDP is one important metric but it definitely doesn't tell the real story of what makes a country relevant or worthy of admiring. And more important it doesnt reveal the most important factor .....quality of life Countries like China and Russia will never become more relevant than places like Canada, USA or the EU . So no need to worry about this

Good post except for the spurious and exaggerated decline of the "West " .....how exactly has Western countries failed, just name one example that is actually relevant to the term failure? And also who exactly will be replacing the West based on what you believe are the Wests principle systemic failures, in other words is it fact that the West are Democracies, have Constitutions, respect human rights, freedom of speech, independent courts, accountable governments and the free market drive the economy I have worked extensively in Africa and the ME and I have seen counties where people live in terrible poverty, have no economic future and have governments that prefer to enrich themselves over there citizens ....and the primary reason for this is these governments dont follow the core points that most countries follow. ...so it boggles my mind to think you are suggesting this will lead to the decline of The West Of course the West is not in decline unless you can tell me what government models are better......like China and Russia.....yeah good choices Finally when we use the word " The West " it creates the wrong impression of what works for sustainable and successful governments. Only countries that follow almost identical core principles are worth comparing if you seriously want to live there but they not referred to as The West like Japan, Vietnam or South Korea No country is perfect, including Western countries but there issues can be addressed and then mitigated

I watched an interesting documentary on this recently from the late 1990's to about 2005 there were some people in the USA military that were indeed selling weapons to right wing groups that they ideologically supported. The FBI and ATF infiltrated these groups and there were massive arrests. Nowadays right groups can get most military weapons outside the US military There is always going to be small numbers of people in the US military with right wing sympathies, the same thing happened during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where there were gang members from known Hispanic gangs who did 1 tour and then left the military and returned to the gangs with military skills and training ...but again its a small number But if you look at most serious right wing or these militia groups many of there members were in the military but I dont think its a huge number. I found 1 link that discusses this. And finally some people in the military may have some right wing views but they wont betray there country by selling illegal weapons but they do exist in reality https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/inside-u-s-military-s-battle-white-supremacy-far-right-ncna1010221

What an interesting story and not unusual considering the political reality and ideological views that some in the USA have You probably will be aware of what I am going to say but I want to share something with you that I have come to understand about the Trump presidency and what it meant and how Trump did win. Its been some good developments and some bad but Trump has definitely made some things worse like the way the media is seen and this " political dichotomy " between the left and right that is normal but under Trump there has been even less reasonable discussions and people finding common ground..... Trump also has been consistent in his support for certain American institutions and groups ...like the US military. He has been a supporter of the importance of the contribution veterans make and also in most cases stood by the current US army in ways other presidents may have unintentionally neglected. That is why groups like your veteran friends like Trump and to them that is important. They dont follow the Trump theater and the world of " alternative facts", he has restored certain degrees of dignity to the military so they would naturally support him But since the virus the greatest obvious Trump success was the heightened strength of the USA economy that is something Trumps economic advisors did well by implementing several unorthodox economic policies that did work.....but all that is gone and to make things worse Trump has also been part of the reasons there hasnt been consistent and obvious virus best practice implemented consistency and directly from the White House. He is not the primary reason as I predict history will be very critical of other groups like certain Republican governors, the lack of common sense from people on the ground in some states, the Trump base the " mask conspiracy theories and sadly the BLM protests which from day had many people suddenly ignoring the virus. All these groups have played a part in contributing towards how the virus has spread in the USA So these realities have created a situation where its unlikely Trump will win in 2020. But when it comes to some of his normal supporters like the Veterans I have noticed a strange response to Trumps impending loss. I would have assumed people would just reconcile why you voted for Trump, the good he did but external factors have changed this so you dont want to overreact to the success Biden is seeing..... Biden will win not because Trump failed or that he didnt deliver on certain campaign promises that matter to some of his supporters but rather the virus outcome and Trumps lack of understanding how the virus should be contained So going forward IMO its best not to get into debates with groups like the Veterans because they see Trump failing as a reflection on what he did for them, they shouldnt see it like this but most Trump supporters do. Exactly how they responded to you is what you will see......it becomes a binary choice for them but in fact as you mentioned you are very far removed from someone who " support Biden " automatically just because you have other reasonable issues with Trump People like the Veterans are well meaning and there legacy will always matter but they will view Trump losing in a much more personal way that it really matters I hope this makes sense because I am not sure I am explaining my point properly? Lastly I would hate to see someone like you read too much into how people assumed certain things about you and you then decide to stop putting the effort you normally put into these institutions. That would be a real loss ......the VFW is the same it always was its just there personal views on Trump and the current bedlam we see in some examples of the USA political reality that is potentially controversial. Dont change your normal support because of this misunderstanding

Yes this is a real perception and there are examples of how you can see how the actions and certain political decisions made under Obama could easily be seen as "Democrats dont respect the military " yet sometimes certain negative views were based more on some generalizations people made about the US military which never helps I dont think Trump has a real connection to the US military but as usual he has this uncanny ability to understand and is generally good at identifying certain views on the ground and then he addresses these views through both speeches and actual policy. And there are several examples where Trump has correctly supported the US military which explains the support he gets from veterans and people in the army generally

Can you share what got potentially heated, its just I know how much effort you put into Veterans and supporting these gatherings so I am surprised a topic could create such anxiety?

I agree, I use to think it was common knowledge that masks help prevent virus spread and with the latest important information on how the virus functions we now know it is "air borne " meaning virus molecules come out from your mouth when you talk, shout, sing and these molecules float in the air which is why any confined area, like a club or church, can easily become real virus spread risk vectors as these floating molecules can expose anyone who walks into them to the virus Wearing a mask prevents 85% of these molecules from escaping, so the mask really should always be worn. I am very disappointed with what has happened in the USA around the virus spread caused by different groups and peoples ideological views but the "mask conspiracy theorists " I have the worst opinion of because these are people who have decided to believe a ridiculous story that the " Deep State " is behind the requirement for wearing masks.....it should be criminal that type of studious ignorance and or selective way of anyone doing basic research and educating themselves on important global topics like the virus

volo can I ask you an important question that matters to me so I understand your sentiment and overall view about BLM\Antifa. Firstly I agree there are elements within Antifa, it may be most of the movement that is involved in violence and creating general anarchy for reasons that dont make sense to me when I hear some of there " leaders " explain what the movement is about. One of the criticisms I have is there is no official leadership structure which means no one takes real responsibility for any criminal acts the group commits like public violence and damage to properties. I read a view one of the unofficial spokesmen had where he openly admitted his definition of Antifa was where it was " okay to damage property and use violence " because the reality of the USA demanded that ....I reject this as there is never a justification for most public acts of violence in any Democracy where you have laws, Constitutions and legal ways to raise concerns. I am not impressed with Antifa generally and I am happy if anyone can explain what I am misunderstanding about the movement But BLM is not Antifa and we should separate the 2 groups with our views. There are well meaning people in BLM and I know they dont support violence like Antifa So based on this what is the reason you raise issues around these groups, I think everyone would agree that definitely there would be some examples of white people being unfairly targeted by Antifa. This is similar to right wing groups attacking minority groups, I dont mean mass shootings but people get beaten up just for being a certain race and that is never right But since we all know this why are you raising examples, I am not trying to tell you what you should be posting ..that would be condescending. I am actually interested in your own reasons for bringing things to every ones attention. In summary do you want people to admit movements like BLM\Antifa have some members who commit violence against white people? As I said earlier I agree with that but its not everyone in BLM and Antifa I have other issues with that I mentioned. '

What a lot of nonsense, she has no clue what she is saying

Its not necessary to confirm all the lies\mistruths\ " alternative facts " that Trump has made as we experienced them live at the time, this is not statistics but actual lived experience If you dont believe this please do your own research, it wont take more than 3-5 hours to confirm for yourself the common pattern from Trump. Interestingly enough he doesnt consider them lies or blatant misrepresentation of facts. I can now understand this but outside of how Trump thinks and how his supporters justify them as " truths" they would be considered lies by the anyone in the global community And then we dont need to scrutinize the comments of other politicians or leaders because this is primarily about one thing only ...the US president. Trump is the US president so that is why its definitely about him But there is no reason you cant personally do your own research on any other politician or leader and find some good links and create a case study and post it here and I promise you I will read it. I wont agree or disagree until I have read the examples. My advice is start with countries like Venezuela and Russia ....lots of lies and misinformation there

We dont use words like " lecture" or " interfere" or " regime change " when we do exactly these things because these things are still necessary but its all about the framing of these words and how you actually do it. For example I am again supportive of legitimate regime change in real examples we see in the world, for example take Assad of Syria But nowadays after learning from the outcomes of Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq you can see how regime change is necessary at times but you need to be clear on getting the correct new government in who obviously would support the broader principles of any Democracy and successful country , the EU or Canada , but you need to support them initially both financially and sometimes militarily This now becomes the real question, can you justify to your tax base the new burden on your overall financial revenue streams? Nowadays its very hard and personally I would battle to be convinced of any current conflicts if I was a US citizen, the exception is Iran but Trump bought the USA back into this and now it only can resolved by the USA . The invasion of Iraq was different in a different era and I would still support if I look at the current better ME

Yes this broader point about the USA is unfortunately true. I am not sure Gromnir was saying this but one thing no US citizen can say is there virus prevention methods have been overly and sustainably effective or should be practiced The actual outcome of the mask denial argument, BLM protests and the politicizing of the virus means the USA will now have thousands more deaths and there economical recovery and critical contribution towards the worlds economic recovery will be delayed by months. This impacts us all apart from our countries economic recovery as the world is inextricably connected through so many economic, underlying metrics that some of these I never realized how they mattered because these things always just work The world and this form of " globalization " was never deigned or rather organically created to be subjected to the global economic shutdown that the virus created. And that means the damage done to everyone of our countries economies has been drastically impacted and somethings cannot be fixed even by the local government due to how these factors operate in the world of " globalization " Now this will be resolved and stabilized but it looks like we will need the vaccine to achieve this, so the best you can do as any government and all citizens is work towards addressing virus spread, you wont stop it until the vaccine, and trying to get all valid institutions, like schools, and businesses can operate and function in a "virus aware world " So in closing the USA delayed economic recovery just delays the final time we get the world functioning as it use to be. The new world I will predict will be where we all will take the Corona vaccine 2 times a year as the Corona anti-bodies arent permanent., this has been confirmed by that latest study in Spain. Of course the clever doctors will probably find a way of extending vaccine Corona anti-bodies but that will come as time goes on

Zora this is not accurate, we know now that virus is spread through molecules that float in the air and that happens when you talk, sneeze, shout or sing So in any confined space these floating molecules become real spread vectors so night clubs and places like churches these floating molecules increase exposure in an absolutely exponential way The masks reduce this by 85-90 % because the molecules dont go through the mask. So not wearing masks only applies now if you can guarantee yourself you have no virus expose that would practically mean you never leave your own safe home environment or you someone never go into any confined space., And short of daily tests or regular tests due to asymptomatic carriers you dont know if you have virus and not wearing a mask means you will always spread the invisible molecules This is a fact on the virus spread and therefore mask should always be worn and social distancing is not enough as the molecules float and stay in areas you were talking or singing

But the spread of the virus in the country doesn't mean USA citizens cant or shouldn't comment on best virus spread The virus spread in the USA is a result of the politicizing of the virus and then certain US citizens rejecting basic things like masks. Unless Gromnir acted like this he can definitely comment and he should because he personally is not one of the US citizens responsible directly or indirectly to virus spread

volo I am not sure I understand your issue wearing a mask, are you saying you dont wear a mask because you dont go out and live in a remote wilderness area....why would you need government to tell you when to wear a mask? Would you wear a mask if you went to a busy town?

Elerond I know how much you hate disappointing me so I must give you chance to clarify , are you saying Finland has mishandled the virus spread due to not making masks mandatory and now there are mask shortages. You guys must be ordering the hospital required masks and this is not necessary....you just need a normal mask The mask you need just stops spread.....it is considered unethical for civilians to be ordering the masks\PPE that are needed for hospital front-line staff

You have answered in pertinent and interesting detail, I did assume you would be thorough because the question was complex. No questions for now and thanks for sharing

The article was irritating and makes several completely inaccurate suggestions about white people, Im glad it was written in 2018 because I have seen similar views from some journalists around BLM now and they were equally unhelpful If anyone is interested why most white people should reject this type of " understanding " of white culture its because it aligns to a certain narrative I sometimes have come across where basically non-white ( this journalist is arab) commentators have this view of white people they claim is the truth and yet it is offensive and condescending and creates an issue around something that is just a normal human emotion.....for example this definition of " white tears " as if now when a white women is crying we suppose to react to it in a way that somehow we must respond to it differently than any other women who may be crying Its ridiculous and extremely inaccurate way to respond to anyone who is crying that somehow the person is expecting attention or there is a expected response. And then if you think Im overreacting please read the link below to see how this " white women tears " and keep asking yourself is this what a white women who cries is thinking? Just to let you know it is full of even more inaccurate " views " of what defines white people generally.....I would really like to get peoples views on this ...all opinions welcome and please disagree with me if Im misunderstanding something https://www.awesomelyluvvie.com/2018/04/weaponizing-white-women-tears.html