Tagaziel

Pansy, real men DEFEND THEIR FAMILIES WITH THEIR BALLS. SUCK IT UP!

It's more contradictory, therefore less of a setting estabilishing resource. It's a no brainer, really.

Uh, because they are special encounters meant to be discovered only by characters with exceptional luck? And MZ is special encounter meant to be encountered only by people who purchase the newest DLC... i don't see a difference... Key difference I've been pointing out: a SINGLE UNIQUE ENCOUNTER versus AN ENTIRE ADDON SOLELY FOCUSED ON ALIENS.

Having replayed both classics recently, I can safely say that your argument is manure of the finest sort. Gee, you should start a fertilizer farm. "Mountains of stupid ****" are usually limited to unique, one time encounters. They are special encounters, easter eggs, not part of the normal gameplay. Fallout 1 and (to a much lesser degree) Fallout 2 aimed to create a coherent, living world that made sense, not to be a patchwork of teh kewl elements that make little sense when put together. Fallout 3 is exactly that, it doesn't even try to create a convincing world, it's just cobbled together without much to combine the elements. To illustrate, what ties does Rivet City have to the rest of the wasteland? What does Megaton produce, where does it get its food? How exactly did Canterbury Commons survive without defenses of any sort? Why does it claim to be a major trading outpost when it has nothing to offer to traders? Where does Tenpenny get supplies? Where Paradise Falls gets their slaves? And that's just off the top of my head. In Fallout and Fallout 2 these questions rarely (if ever) surfaced. The cities were developed and interconnected, the world was a consistent place and made immersing myself in the world easy.

What, a render in an ending slide? For all we know, it might've been supposed to show New Arroyo in 2300. And second, if it was all-powerful, then why call it a basic replicator?

Uh, because they are special encounters meant to be discovered only by characters with exceptional luck? They are hidden nods to popular sci-fi, as Twinkie said, hidden tracks on an album that shouldn't be factored into the final review. And I hope you see the difference between a *single* *special* *random* encounter and a three hour add on *entirely dedicated to aliens*.

By making an *entire* add-on focused solely on what was meant to be a one-time special encounter most people don't see at all during their playthroughs? I'd call your argument a strawman, but it's so flimsy that a more appropriate term is "voidman".

Those are random special encounters, thoroughly non-canon.

How come?

I can say that about the Pitt.

TeamX's restoration pack + mash's resolution patch + Timeslip's tweaks = Life's Good

How is that NOT both silly AND a plot device??? It's not silly, because it's a deliberate design decision. You can't call it silly without throwing every fantasy and scifi work into one basket with the "Silly" tag on it.

ROFL Doublethink much? How does one exclude the other? Fallout's physics operate in a different way, allowing for ghouls and deathclaws, but that doesn't undermine logic and sensibility.

No, that's your approach that it's a deliberate, nonsensical plot device. I approach it as both a plot device and a pretty sensible element of the world. Fallout world's physics operate in a different way (quoth MCA) I use real world logic in Fo1 and Fo2. Fo2 is, admittedly, inconsistent, but a majority of it makes sense, whereas Fo3 doesn't even try to make sense. There were a handful of inconsistencies in Fo1 too, but nowhere near the amount in Fo3.

In post-nuclear lawless wastelands people prefer to keep their lives rather than explore. Especially if the place in question is rumoured to be... not so friendly. It's not needed as a plot device. The Master can just as well commit suicide and not blow the Cathedral up and the Unity still falls apart. And why is it there? It's the most secure location in the Unity. FEV-II could not be reproduced by the Unity. And, as said, hostile infiltration of the Master's Lair was exceedingly unlikely. Quite the opposite. A scientific/repair genius can bypass the key and arm the nuke. That's how it works in Fo. Uh, the nuke is not armed. Because Fallout makes sense? You are an evil overlord. You find the mightiest weapon. You keep it close, but disarmed. You store the activation key with your sidekick that can't be bribed or otherwise circumvented. The bomb can't be activated unless by you or a charismatic, ingenious scientific and technical hero who learns of your secret lair, infiltrates it without fail by stealing purple robes and posing flawlessly as your messenger, one that is skillful enough to circumvent a nuclear arming key. It's pretty much impossible, unless you are the player character. Uh, no, it was not blatantly up to no good. Most people of the wastelands had absolutely no idea CoC was anything except weird, even the Followers of the Apocalypse only had a vague "something is wrong there" idea. The Brotherhood was completely ignorant, outside rumours of an army in the north while the Hub merchants thought it was the Deathclaw slashing up their caravans. The Children were perceived as weird, but helpful with free medical care and other support offered to the people of the wasteland. Only the Vault Dweller was able to see the evil, but not without the Overseer's help and him connecting the facts. So, yeah, it's not a far fetched situation. Certainly less than people building a town around a deteriorating live nuclear weapon.

Which everyone assumes is a weird place? Normal people stay away from the Cathedral and brainwashed drones don't ask questions. It's precisely the place you want to keep the ultimate weapon - one, you always know where it is and control who has access. Two, only the most loyal to your cause are allowed anywhere near the underground vault. Three, the Children make damn sure no unauthorized pests can access the basement. If you recall, to get into the basement, you either have to confess to Morpheus that you're a Vault Dweller and be taken to the Master, snatch Morpheus' black key and open it or lockpick the door (very hard) and evade the Nightkin beyond it. Pretty good security setup. The Unity would remove the bomb, should the need be. You mean, stockpile your assets in one location (Vats and the bomb)? That's... not a bright thing to do. A key can be replaced or bypassed, a bomb can not. So instead he should have a pile of junk lying about and pretend it's his ultimate weapon? It makes sense internally. That's what counts, internal coherence. And it makes sense, if you stop operating on the assumption that it has to be nonsensical and actually read what the NPCs say. Yeah, it was so visible that no one knew it existed, let alone found it. Huh? You mean nobody knew about the CoC? How the hell were they trying to recruit/brainwash people all over the place then? No one knew about the Vault or the Master. So even the mildest criticism of Fo3 is automatically bashing?

He crossed the post-nuclear Atlantic. Alone. Plus, the whole Tenpenny Tower gig he has going on just doesn't make any sense. Residents supposedly pay for living there, but none have any income. The tower has no source of water or food and no caravan stops there. Though I guess it's all due to Beth ripping out a plot device from a movie and jury-rigging it into their game (Land of the Dead in this case)

Uh, if you read the dialogue file, it's stored in the Cathedral because: a. It's the most secure location the Unity has b. It's their ultimate last resort weapon c. The nuclear detonation key is in a separate location - on the opposite end of the game map, actually d. They keep it in top condition at all times e. They monitor it 24/7/365/100 So yeah, there is no chance in hell that it'd go off on its own or someone to sneak in and detonate it. Unless he's the player character, but as we all know, PCs are a very special case.

Which were cut, duhh. I can name a dew: * Reappearance of the Enclave with the exact same MO * Brotherhood being an Oblivionesque Paladin Order, instead of hardcore professionals pursuing their goal singlemindendly (arguably, Outcasts make up for that to a degree) * Brotherhood being on the East Coast due to receiving reports of Supermutant activity in the DC ruins * Vault-Tec doing FEV research (plot device from FOPOS) * Vault dedicated to FEV research (FOPOS) * Allistair Tenpenny arriving in the US and A from Great Britain. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over. * Town built around a nuclear bomb with a perfectly good pre-war settlement a five minute walk from it. (no city in the previous games commited such an idiocy) * Carefree, juvenile use of nuclear energy (Megaton's nuke, the Fat Man nuclear catapult and its unique variant, the Experimental MIRV, exploding nuclear weapons, a warehouse full of nuclear bombs, Vertibirds with nuclear minibombs and a massive robot throwing nuclear bombs at everything that moves.) The last one requires some elaboration. In all other games (even FOT), nuclear energy was feared and respected. In Fo1, Fo2 and FOT, the very weapons that extinguished most of human civilization are used to save what remains of it and feature inly in the very endgame. In short, their use can be summarized by this quotation from a Supermutant Sergeant guarding the nuke underneath the Cathedral: Source: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/GENSARG.MSG

Basic replicator that most likely cannot produce anything beyond fertilizers and seeds. That's hardly magical.

Lynette: Here. That gives them 163 years to rebuild.

GECK wasn't a miracle device, it was (Renesco): "GECK? As in 'Garden of Eden Creation Kit?' Comes with a basic replicator unit, holodisc reader with selections from the library of congress, and a little pen flashlight?" Bethesda dropped the ball (again). GECK was a tool, not a magic terraformer, designed to aid[/i] Vault Dwellers in resettling the village. If you paid attention, Fo2 takes place 165 years after the nuclear war. The VC we see in Fo2 is the end result of Vault 8 inhabitants' hard work for over a century and a half. It didn't become a (relative) paradise overnight. Same with New Arroyo - the slide you see is the end result, the timeframe is not specified anywhere. A GECK is not some wondrous panacea, it's just a tool designed to resettle.

Well, in KOTOR2 you were pretty much running a private enterprise so it's far more plausible than Mass Effect (for reasons JES enumerated).

SPECIAL is dumbed down in Fo3, it's a no brainer. From a character-centered gameplay it went to a Deus Exque hybrid.