Wrath of Dagon

I'm coming to the conclusion that D&D combat is very boring, and should be played on easy to get through it quickly. Perhaps there's an interesting way to implement it, but I haven't seen it. I'll take whosever's word that ToEE was good, but why isn't anyone else doing it if it was possible?

Did anyone say there would be breakable environments?

They're not by a long shot, at least play ME before you make that claim. As far as your other games, I can't raise them on a pedestal because I haven't played them, and MotB I didn't get far enough to make a judgment. Anyway, that's all I want to say on this, since it's way off topic.

Well, you're the one who said standard X-Y-Z fetch quest, so I assume you know what standard means. Anyway, got to go, I'll continue later.

May be Bloodlines was better, I don't know, haven't played it. The best quest I've played was Peragus in K2, because it was non-standard. But those are pretty rare.

Sorry, I've noticed that too. As soon as people quit attacking me, I'll get off the subject.

So there were some standard fetch-the-"X, Y, and Zed" quests involved, amazing. Also, you did not have to "deal with the refugees" if you did not want to, there that much to "explore," and I can only remember ONE "Sith patrols" that was not DEAD. OK, what are the non-standard quests? I didn't say it was amazing, I said it was interesting. What's your point anyway?

Yes, they are crushing, so many people without any taste.

Same here, it got me into RPG's, and it's still awesome. I've replayed it several times since then. I disagree, K2 is better in some ways but worse in others, overall they're about equal to me. Yes, so what? There are a few "important decisions", unfortunately most of them have big flashing signs saying "Make Big Important Decision Here" instead of being organic to the story. They're not enough to make the game anyway, and the rest of the stuff isn't relevant if the content isn't there.

I didn't say that at all. You said KOTOR was developed for graphics whores because it had 3D graphics. Succeeded in making a good game.

This for example. Edit: And this: You didn't just walk to find the crashed pod. You had to find out there was a crashed pod, obtain a Geth uniform or papers, go to the lower level, deal with the refugees, and finally explore the area while fighting off the Rathghouls and dealing with Sith patrols. It's these kinds of ignorant and dismissive statements from you that make it very difficult to discuss anything. Obviously anything I say was fun you'll just come back and say was boring and cliche just so you can be right.

Fine, you can call anyone who wants to play 3D games graphics whores, but they succeeded with KOTOR and failed with ME, which is what matters. I'm not saying graphics aren't important, it's when they're prioritized over everything else there's a problem, and the quote I gave is proof of that.

Let me guess, you were the chairman of your schools debate club? Debate to you means poo-poing someone else's points while making none of your own.

How about elaborating on why you found KOTOR fun and addictive? What made KOTOR a better experience than all other RPGs you ever played? Mostly I loved the quest design. Not only did they fit into the story, you learned an awful lot about KOTOR universe from doing them. Also characters, dialog and writing in general.

@Moatilliata: I gave you my example. If you disagree with it, that's not my problem, but simply indicates your lack of understanding of what makes a good game. All you counterarguments to why the Bastila quest was good were irrelevant btw.

Because I played both, and that's the judgment I made. While I was playing KOTOR, I couldn't believe how fun and addictive it was. While I was playing ME, I couldn't believe Bioware would make something that amateurish and mediocre, sometimes downright atrocious.

May be it was boring to you, but it was the best gameplay ever to me. If you didn't like ME, then what's your point? That you hate all Bioware games? Fine. I gave the quote as the proof that in pursuing graphics whores, Bioware was not able to create any good content. Having a giant empty area you try to fill up with little dialogs at the very end of development because that's all resources will allow you to do is not the proper way to design a compelling game IMO.

I haven't played BG, so I can't compare, but KOTOR is a great game. I don't have a list of requirements for a game, it's either a quality game or it's not.

Find Liara mission is you go on this very barren and uninteresting planet and fight through a bunch of Geth. OK, you don't like KOTOR, I get it. A cinematic shooter like ME is much more appealing to you. ME as an RPG still sucks though.

So what, it was required, but it was still a quest. Name one good quest in ME, aside from those I already named.

To find Bastila, you had to find the crashed pod, go through the sewers, hook up with Mission and Zaalbar, get involved with the two gangs, side with one, fight the Rancor, go through the gang compound, steal the prototype engine, win the race, win the fight at the end, and be subjected to Bastila's snooty dialog, in addition to a bunch of other stuff I don't remember at the moment. If that kind of gameplay is equivalent for you to a 2 second dog killing spree, then we exist in two different universes and there's not point in discussing anything.

@Moatillata: OK, then read the quote I added above. The Varren quest is while you're in some tunnels, you turn into a square with a bunch of debris and a pack of Varren attack you. You shoot them all in a couple of seconds, and the quest is done. Do you really need me to recount everything you have to do to find Bastila? I've done that a few times already on other forums, so I don't really feel like it again. @Deadly: Yes, genius will do that to you.

Any quest in KOTOR is vastly superior to any quest in ME, with the exception of "I remember me" and the interview. If you want a very uneven match up, compare quest(s) to find Bastila on Taris to the quest to kill the Varren (wild dog) leader on Feros. But feel free to come up with a more fair match up.

Examples of what?

Opinions are fun aren't they. Yes they are when they're correct, and mine always are.