Wrath of Dagon

No, it's a badly made game, no question about it. It's not my fault some people can't distinguish between good and bad. I'll give one more example. Wrex told you one war story, and it was really stupid. Canderous told you many war stories, and they were all pretty good, and really shed some insight on the Mandalorian war, which was an important part of the plot. Things like that happen all the time, ME has completely pointless stories and conversations, while everything in KOTOR is well thought out and fleshes out the Universe. But there's nothing I can do if someone states white is black and black is white. You for example liked the Uncharted Worlds, how is that even possible?

I'm not necessarily saying he wasn't one dimensional, but he was cool, kind of a tough, ruthless Spartan type:

Wrex has some good one liners, but if you talk to him he bores you to tears, almost as bad as Tali. He's completely one dimensional and a Canderous rip off, except not near as good as Canderous. The choice on Virmire is a coin toss choice (I don't mean the one with Wrex), I never really understood why people like that so much. And about being created for specific purposes, that's very true, everything feels very contrived, and the few decisions you actually make aren't organic to the story or the gameplay, they are just there because you're supposed to make decisions in an RPG, it's like they have a big sign "Make Big Decision Here!"

So, Carth was a very damaged human being, anything against portraying that in a game? The problem with Kaiden is he's so underdeveloped, he tells you his sob story (which is pretty dumb btw) and that's it.

If you think parrotting that endlessly makes you look intelligent, you're very much mistaken. What are you, 12 or so?

And KOTOR was a degenerate version of BG2 in more ways than one. You may be right, never played BG2. But so what, I never claimed KOTOR was the same or better than BG2.

That's all it had though. You can't be serious. Kill someone for no reason or don't kill them is a big advancement in morality? Getting a pass was so complicated? (and already done in KOTOR) And at least Sith you could talk to, the Geth are just glorified toasters with 0 personality. You know why? ME quests are one dialog, at most two. If you're frustrated doing real quests, no wonder you like ME better, plus there were no quests in KOTOR like you describe.

ME ripping off KOTOR is not to its credit. Top side of Taris went along with it's theme, rich live on higher level, the lower levels get increasingly poorer and more dangerous. Sure, a lot was left to the imagination due to graphic limitations, but you could see some beautiful vistas of the city with spaceships and so on. Plus it set up the contrast with the sewers and the squalor of the refugee camp. And at least there was lots of interesting stuff to do on Taris, unlike the Citadel.

ME did have a degenerate version of Carth, which was Kaiden, just like Quasar or whatever that game was called was a degenerate version of Pazaak, just like ME is a degenerate version of KOTOR, which is what I think makes it so hard for people to understand the difference between KOTOR and ME.

No, Citadel is all peaceful, except for main story related combat. Noveria has a very small and boring peaceful zone, the rest is all combat. All other planets are linear combat only. Level design in ME generally consists of a corridor, a door, followed by another corridor, another door, and then yet another corridor, with one more door, culminating in a room with some crates for cover where you kill a few enemies, usually the same Geth over and over. Each KOTOR planet had its own theme, its own character, its own situation you had to deal with, and its own story. You had exploration, quests, combat, dungeons, and dialog which was actually meaningful. All of these elements were reduced to laughable proportions in ME. "Turn off a valve and replace a battery, and voila, you're done with all the quests on Feros. But don't forget to pick up some files while you're in the corporate building." Also you can claim just about anything is generic. The art in KOTOR went with the theme and situation on each planet, Tatooine looked like a desert planet, Sand People camp looked like a Nomad camp, etc. I could go through each ME planet and describe to you why the art on each one sucked, but I've done it before and I don't think anyone is that interested.

Which objective opinions? What have I been posting through this whole thread? What did you ask, I didn't see anything in your posts that looked like a question.

No, you don't, thanks for your opinion, but then you really shouldn't be arguing, should you? Also, if JE and ME ripped off KOTOR in some respects, how does that count against KOTOR? It should only count against later games. You're saying because you like all 3 and I don't my opinion is somehow suspect, even though you refuse to explain your reasoning, while I explained mine.

None of which I agree with. ME is not KOTOR as it has none of KOTOR's good attributes. If you want to prove ME is as good as KOTOR, you have to show positive attributes in ME which are as good or better than KOTOR. The fact that you don't like KOTOR doesn't make ME any better; specifically you have to show how ME's level design is superior to KOTOR, since that is what we're discussing. And yes, I agree ME had better combat and was mindless filler otherwise.

I have a hard time taking your posts very seriously, since you don't give any reasons for your statements, and neither does Nightshape for that matter. Yes, every game has flaws, even KOTOR, so what? I'm telling you why ME is a bad game, and has some flaws is not enough of a reason. And which flaws does KOTOR have exactly that are similar to ME? You never say, just make general and ambiguous statements. So far as bias, where's my bias coming from? From disagreeing with your opinion? I can tell you my opinions are very objective. I thought KOTOR was great, Jade Empire was a noticeable step down in quality, and ME was a complete disaster as an RPG, and I can give you reasons for each of those statements. Where's the bias in that?

All weapons are horrible, WP is used mostly for lighting and smoke screens.

We like it, worked for us for over 200 years.

I think it gets better though, at least get to the third level. It always stays a bit generic, true, but I did enjoy the combat.

Yes, and they have a Teddy Bear spell also, stay away from this.

Well, the DLC they released is apparently just another Uncharted World, and none of the other promised DLC materialized so far, so it looks to me like things are still rotten in Denmark. Thus I'm not terribly optimistic about ME2.

No, the point of the thread was to bash the level design. Of course level design is pretty central to the quality of the rest of the game. It's true that most of everything else in the game is bad also, so I suppose I could've opened a separate thread to bash each of the other aspects, but that's hardly worth doing, and it's level design that's in the news right now. Also I don't know how attentively you've being lurking, but I've made what I consider some important points about good level design, as far as having a central theme and so on, and a developer even made his own comments on some of that, so my purpose was not to express hostility but have a discussion about good game design, which is a subject that interests me.

No, they didn't go overboard. The problem was once they came up with all that, all they did was write it down in the Codex, instead of implementing it into gameplay, story, level design, etc. I want to play a game, not read a fake encyclopedia. Edit: Also it takes a lot longer than 50,000 years to evolve from a bug to a space travelling civilization.

The next episode is "Empire Strikes Back", followed by "Return of the Protheans"

It says it was a supply truck, not an ambulance. You can't assume everything that's hit is hit intentionally, or that all witnesses are truthful. There're thousands of shells flying around in Gaza, some will go off course, some are targeted by mistake. "Fog of War" means something.

So we're posting fake news now?

From the second link I posted. I guess now is a good time to post what went wrong on the Citadel: