Cyrus_Blackfeather

An offensive Charge ability would be cool. I also like the idea of a Corrode lash that scales with Alchemy, or with level - the Assassin's weapons are always prepped for poison (Even the bullets... somehow). The ability that creates poisons in Quickslots is another cool idea - maybe an upgrade to Deep Pockets. In another thread, I've asked about how to make it so that Full Attacks don't break Stealth for Assassinate/Backstab procs, but no one seems very clear on how to do that. There actually is a Garrote ability in the game. It's the Lay on Hands for the Steel Garrote, and you get it as a per-rest ability with a pair of gloves. So there's probably an animation in there somewhere that could be used. Of course then you get into the weird logic error of how you can strangle something that doesn't have a neck (Like an ooze) or that has a neck much bigger around than you can grasp (Like a dragon). And of course, "Neck resistance" isn't something that the game checks. You do bring up a good point that Assassin doesn't feel distinct from the other Rogue subclasses in how it plays. Assassinate is good, but all it really does is emphasize going invisible with skills or potions, getting a free hit in, and then doing it again. Their disadvantage isn't even really that well explained or implemented. They take more damage because... they're more fragile. I'd love to follow your progress into making Assassin feel more distinct from the other Rogues, and lend whatever support I can.

Hey guys, So, I'm working on a ranged Assassin/Ascendant, and I'm debating taking Backstab as part of the build. I know it works with ranged attacks within 2m of the target, but my question is, how awkward is that to set up? Also, is dual pistol Assassin still satisfying to use even though you only get the Assassinate bonus on one hit of a Full Attack from Stealth/Invisibility?

What I'm hoping for is someone to do the coding for this for me, since I lack a lot of confidence in doing this sort of stuff myself. However, if anyone could just walk me through the process here (Tell me what to do, where to go to change things, etc, and how to set up the override folder and such) I'd appreciate it. At least for the Guile cost changes, and maybe adding a notation about them in the Assassin subclass description. I'm not crazy about the poison buff, as it's honestly unnecessary.

So, has anyone done some testing to see if it's possible to grant an extra second of invisibility on attack after using Shadowing Beyond?

Hello all, This is a request for a mod that adds a few features to the Assassin subclass for Rogue that, I hope, will add to it without completely breaking the game. What I'd like (Please, tell me what you think of each and their effect on the game. Would it make things too trivial?) A reduction in cost of 1 Guile for invisibility abilities (Smoke Veil, Shadowing Beyond, Vanishing Strike, etc.) to a minimum of 1 Guile. Eg: Smoke Veil becomes 1 Guile, Shadowing Beyond/Shadow Step become 2 Guile. This allows for Assassinate to be used during combat with much more regularity, brings Rogue's two earliest invisibility powers in line with Trickster's spells in terms of Guile cost, and helps Assassin to become a little more active while still requiring choices to be made regarding resource management. Poison scaling. Essentially, returning Alchemy's old functionality to the Assassin class as a feature, regarding poisons at least. Poisons are an essential part of an Assassin's toolkit. I'm not 100% on this one, because everyone seems to be saying that poisons are still fine, they're just not game-breakingly overpowered anymore. If doing this would seriously overturn the game's balance, I'm okay with not having it.

Mhmm! I'm working on seeing if I can mod a little something extra into Assassin, like say a scaling boost to poisons with PL, to make out of Stealth gameplay a little more enticing. Poisons are an essential part of the Assassin toolkit, obviously. Edit: Ultimately, I do wanna hit the big numbers, so Assassin is probably my best bet. Others have mentioned I can use Assassinate to land things like Puppet Master or Ringleader from stealth as well, to open up combat by breaking the enemy's formation. Also, how bad is Ascendant's -1 PL penalty when not at max focus for casting CC spells? How much does it reduce Accuracy by?

Trickster's definitely a good choice, yeah! Someone brought up a good point - it's like having a triple Multiclass with very slight drawbacks (70% damage instead of 80% damage with Deathblows, in addition to all of the other damage buffs I'll be getting), but you're basically a Rogue, Illusion Wizard, and Cipher. Not quite. Base sneak attack scales with Power Level, so it's more like 100% sneak bonus damage at max level with deathblows vs 110% for Assasin (and 160% for Streetfighter). You mention Guile cost for Trickster abilities. But if you want to use Assasinate more then once per combat, then its expensive also. I'm actually not sure that I'd even use Assasinate for weapon attacks. I'd probably use it more to open combat with something like Puppet Master or Ring Leader (with high land chance) from range, which would disrupt enemy ranks from the start. And yeah, for such a character I'd probably go with Beguiler. Oh, does it? Neato. Also, yeah... Streetfighter's bonus damage is insane, but the amount of effort you have to put in to use it at range is really not a lot of fun, when you could be doing other things. As far as Assassinate goes, yeah - I didn't realize Shadowing Beyond was 3 Guile compared to 1 Guile from Escape, so Trickster - in terms of things to do - definitely outshines Assassin in that regard. Plus you can keep Escape unupgraded which saves a spot. ... I suppose I wasn't as done as I thought! Would Beguiler still be able to make use of Mind Blades, Amplified Wave, and Disintegrate or should I drop those for other stuff as well?

Or in this case, an extra Assassinate for a dual Full Attack.

Yeah, I'm a little... daunted by all of that, so I was hoping that other folks who are a little more versed in this sort of thing could share their expertise in the skill coding and such. I feel like I'd be more liable to start working on it, but flub something and get frustrated. Hmm... I wonder if modifying Shadowing Beyond to look like WotW (While possibly dropping the Guile cost to 2) AND giving a scaling PL bonus to the effects of poisons would be too much?

Hmm, nice! We need folks to start testing this.

Honestly, if that worked, it'd make playing Assassin a heck of a lot more desirable. That said, there's also the issue of Shadowing Beyond costing 3 Guile, when you might want to use that Guile for other things. On poisons, should the PL be scaled up with Assassin, or are poisons fine as they are?

You get assassinate on the first hit from stealth at any range (notably, not the second hit from a full attack) but the backstab talent is only within 2m. I saw a lot of Arqebus Holy Slayer Bleak Walker / Assassin builds posted in 1.1. Ha... Haha. Yeah, I... kinda want to go dual pistols for the style/enchants. So Trickster might be better, for the dual-wield Full Attacks.

Trying to decide between Beguiler and Ascendant though. Beguiler would synergize with the CC powers, but Ascendant is better for the DPS powers. That said, the DPS powers probably aren't going to matter too much compared to Rogue weapon damage anyway... So maybe I should focus more on CC and go Beguiler, just to help me further lock stuff down.

Well, considering they buffed it, I'm sure they're not gonna touch it so soon afterwards. That wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. Hmm... Overall, I think Trickster might be a little more fun than Assassin, because it provides a lot more toys to play with. Not sure about Beguiler versus Ascendant though.

The rogue classes are all pretty darn good, but I’d second gkathellar, trickster, single or multi is great. Has so many tools and options. And frankly doesn’t loose much to street fighter in combat due to the buffs. Reminds me of my awesome BG2 mage/rogue, except I don’t even need to take multi. And trickster/beguiler is absolutely bat**** insane at the moment.... can handle just about anything. That's a good point, honestly. Though I've been building for an Ascendant multiclass. Trickster/Beguiler might synergize better though. And how would both of those work for Ranged?

Trickster's definitely a good choice, yeah! Someone brought up a good point - it's like having a triple Multiclass with very slight drawbacks (70% damage instead of 80% damage with Deathblows, in addition to all of the other damage buffs I'll be getting), but you're basically a Rogue, Illusion Wizard, and Cipher.

You think? Don't you get Assassinate on Ranged attacks? I know Backstab you have to be within a certain distance of the target, but I think Assassinate works fine as long as you're in Stealth/invisible. Admittedly, Trickster does address one of the bigger problems with this build - poor Deflection - while also giving some pretty substantial debuffs. The only thing I'm not too crazy about is the Guile I could be using for other Rogue abilities. Two Guile isn't nothing, especially without a good way to refresh it, or a set of gloves that gives an extra +2. Trickster also makes a tad more sense from an RP perspective as well, if you go Vallian with this character. The Vallians are a lot more interested in business pursuits as well as sabotage and counter-sabotage. I'd pick Beguiler to match, but I'd have to change some things around. Plus I like the extra PL and the ability to chain damage spells.

"I've a knack for turning lead into gold." I'm baaaack! This build has gone through a lot - and I mean A LOT - of drafts over the past few weeks, as I've debated various changes, tested a few things, banged my head against the wall, cried in the fetal position, and become so familiar with what Rogue and Cipher each get at various levels that I could probably recite it by heart if you asked me to. But now, it's done, and just in time for the Beast of Winter expansion (I think I'll be waiting until next week to see what changes they intend to make in 2.0, if there are any class/equipment changes planned). So, without further ado, the "Company Man." He's intended to be played as a Faction agent, through and through, sent to the Dyrwood originally in a similar capacity to Pallegina, but obviously somewhat diverted by the whole "Hollowborn Crisis/Stop Thaos" thing. This iteration is designed as a VTC agent, but you can obviously tweak the race/culture to suit whichever of the Factions you choose. Old Vallia works for Old Guard Principi and VTC, Deadfire for Huana, Rauatai for RDC, and - well, really any culture works for Newblood Principi. Race: Any race works here, except perhaps Aumaua. My personal pick is Oceanfolk Human, though for a ranged build focusing on not getting hit, you won't be seeing Fighting Spirit very often, and if you are then you're in trouble. Class: Mindstalker (Assassin/Ascendant)* *Why Assassin? Because Assassinate is still a pretty solid ability, even if it doesn't land on the second attack of a Full Attack. You can still use it to deliver powerful opening strikes from stealth (With an Arquebus or a Pistol) and then swap to dual Pistols for regular combat with the occasional Shadowing Beyond shot woven in. Trickster is a close second, as the defensive spells and debuffs it offers help to shore up low Deflection and, ultimately, make enemies easier to kill, at the cost of 10% Sneak Attack damage. Culture/Background: Old Vallia/Aristocrat Skill Focus: Stealth and Alchemy (Actives)/Insight and Bluff (Passives) Attributes: Might: 20 (15 Base +1 Human +1 GotM +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Permanent Stat Boost) Con: 10 (7 Base +1 Effigy's Resentment (Durance) +2 Berath's Blessing) Dexterity: 18 (15 Base +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Chameleon's Touch) Perception: 21 (18 Base +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Chameleon's Touch) Intellect: 20 (17 Base +1 Old Vallia +2 Berath's Blessing) Resolve: 6 (3 Base +1 Human +2 Berath's Blessing) Abilities: Level 1 - Crippling Strike/Tenuous Grasp Level 2 - Whispers of Treason (Retrain to Escape after clearing the Digsite) Level 3 - Iron Will Level 4 - Blinding Strike/Draining Whip Level 5 - Mind Blades Level 6 - Dirty Fighting Level 7 - Secret Horrors/Confounding Blind Level 8 - Finishing Blow Level 9 - Puppet Master or Hammering Thoughts Level 10 - Mental Binding/Shadowing Beyond Level 11 - Bear's Fortitude Level 12 - Withering Strike Level 13 - Devastating Blow/Borrowed Instinct Level 14 - Rapid Casting Level 15 - Ringleader Level 16 - Disintegration/Toxic Strike Level 17 - The Empty Soul Level 18 - Amplified Wave Level 19 - Ancestor's Honor/Deathblows Level 20 - Echoing Horror The damage dealing spells are a bit of a tricky take, because you won't have the Recovery reduction from Streetfighter to allow them to be chain-cast. The abilities are more or less done, but if anyone has any ideas on how I could, say, work Two-Weapon style in there without sacrificing anything, I'd appreciate it. Gear: Weapons: The Kitchen Stove(MH)/Scordeo's Trophy (OH) - The Kitchen Stove, upgraded, gives you a per encounter AoE attack that can generate enough Focus for you to immediately Ascend. Scordeo's Trophy has some amazing enchants that help with Action Speed and Critical Hit damage. Also consider Thundercrack Pistol in another weapon slot for Storm Rune Shot and another quick bit of Focus gain. There's also something to be said for a Blunderbuss/Blunderbuss and Pistol/Pistol weapon set, perhaps with Serafen's dual Hand Mortars. The Blunderbusses can be used with Confounding Blind to strip Deflection before swapping over to the pistols for eliminating key targets. Pet: Cutthroat Cosmo for the recovery reduction and party-wide effect of 5% bonus damage with guns. Every little bit helps. Armor: Miscreant's Leathers is my personal pick for the 5% chance to just ignore an attack. Furthermore, when used with Cutthroat Cosmo, it just... doesn't have a Recovery penalty. Plus it looks stylish, and Blow the Man Down is easily my favorite quest for all of the ways you can solve it. I'm definitely open to other suggestions though. Maia's armor seems like it'd be good for the 20% hit to crit on dodging a ranged attack, but that requires... dodging a ranged attack. Plus it's a % chance to happen, not a guarantee. Helm: Acina's Tricorn is why this build doesn't work with Godlikes unfortunately, as well as why Miscreant's Leathers is my favorite piece of gear to go with it for style points. Get it, love it. Rings: Chameleon's Touch and Ring of the Marksman. Chameleon's Touch can be acquired on Neketaka (Though the bounty to get it can be pretty rough) as can Ring of the Marksman (Though this is VERY important, and I'm putting this here so I won't forget. You must pickpocket it off of the Rauatai Sailors as part of the Valera portion of the Family Feud quest. Depending on the character, you might or might not want to kill them). Cloak: Cloak of Greater Protection - It's like Giftbearer's Cloth for people who A: Don't need the extra weapon/quick item slot and B: Don't overindulge in History. Neck: Token of Faith (+2 Resolve) or Amulet of Greater Health (25 max Health) - Lots of not unique items here, but I can't really think of many good neck slot items I've come across. Cipher's Shackle could also work for the +Con and Dexterity Affliction resistance. Gloves: Bracers of Greater Deflection - They're bracers that deflect things. Both this and the Cloak are taken in the event that you might be hit eventually and that if you are, you probably want to make sure you're at least not crit and killed before you can teleport away. Belt: Belt of Eoten Constitution - Mostly so that your 10 Con becomes 12 Con. That adds an extra 21 HP. I'm not entirely sold on this one, so other Belt options would certainly be welcome. Maybe Gwyn's Bridal Garter for the added resistance to Dexterity Afflictions? Boots: Boots of the Stone for Dexterity and Resolve, and Resistance to Might Afflictions. The gear's pretty much a direct copy-paste from the older version of the build, but this is more or less done. Only things I'm wavering a bit on are... 1. Assassin versus Trickster (More Accuracy and Penetration on Invisibility attacks versus more Deflection and debuffs at a Guile cost)** 2. The abilities (Mainly, making everything that's good to take fit and making some executive decisions on what's not good to take). ** I'm also collecting some feedback/trying to figure out what would be a good way to mod Assassin to make it a little more desirable. It seems the "Stealth breaks on first attack in a Full Attack" thing can't be fixed/is working as intended, so I've considered adding a scaling PL bonus to Poisons (Basically, how old!Alchemy used to work) or something of that nature.

Hey guys, So, I'm wanting to play an Assassin rogue for my ranged DPS MC, just because I think it fits well thematically. Now, the consensus around these forums seems to be that Assassin, while perfectly serviceable, could use a small buff of some kind to bring it up to par with the other two Rogue subclasses. I was wondering if there were any ideas for what that small buff could be? Things I've considered... Fixing the "Stealth Breaks Full Attack" thing. That seems to be working as intended, and fiddling with it would essentially allow you to be permanently invisible. Giving Assassins what amounts to a scaling PL bonus to poison effectiveness - essentially reverting to 1.1 in terms of how Alchemy worked regarding poisons. This seems a lot more doable, and is in keeping with the theme. It hearkens back to D&D Assassins, who made heavy use of poisons, and makes them a little more significant in an Assassin's hands. Giving Assassinate bonus Sneak Attack damage as well as bonus Accuracy, Penetration, and Crit damage. Might be a little too OP though. Allowing Assassinate to trigger outside of Stealth on low health targets that are vulnerable to Sneak Attack.

Ah, well. How about making poisons scale with PL then?

It’s definitely fixable, just take a look at vanishing strike. I think it’s bugged because it will let u backstab even after invisible run off. So my guess is there is a hidden buff about invisible, if it is on then u will do backstab, and this hidden buff is unrelated with the invisiblity icon. So in short, one just expend that buff for shadowing beyond and smoke veil to last 1 sec longer than it should, so letting full attack has a time window for backstabbing. Alright, so where do we *find* this hidden buff? I'm not familiar with modding, but my best bet is looking at vanishing strike, not sure if the code is accessible to modders or not, maybe some dev can help :3 Here's hoping. Is there any way to... summon a dev who could provide us some insight? *Waves around some coffee and ramen*

I realize I'm asking a lot out of you guys, but... A: This is really beyond my comprehension to fix without breaking something... B: I think if we allow more easy/varied access to Assassinate, Assassin will take its rightful place among the Rogue subclasses.

It’s definitely fixable, just take a look at vanishing strike. I think it’s bugged because it will let u backstab even after invisible run off. So my guess is there is a hidden buff about invisible, if it is on then u will do backstab, and this hidden buff is unrelated with the invisiblity icon. So in short, one just expend that buff for shadowing beyond and smoke veil to last 1 sec longer than it should, so letting full attack has a time window for backstabbing. Alright, so where do we *find* this hidden buff?

Hmm. I wonder if there's a way to fix that with a mod - make it so that Stealth isn't broken until both hits of a Full Attack resolve...? That'd probably be impossible though, since the enemy would obviously be alerted by the "Hey, I just got shot in the head!" thing. Maybe a mod could make it so that Assassinate applies to both attacks, regardless. That'd make the subclass a lot more desireable, especially for dual wielders whether melee or ranged. Another option would be adding a scaling Poison PL bonus to Assassin just to make poisons have a little more synergy with them, especially since Alchemy got nerfed. That'd definitely feel thematic. Or I could just use Arquebuses, but those are boring. That said, if neither of those changes can be implemented, Trickster is looking like a pretty valid second choice.

That's actually a pretty good way to look at it! Especially if I focus more on the manipulation side of a Mindstalker (Trickster Rogue as opposed to Streetfighter Rogue). Plus, I tend to run into more friendly faces that are Vallian and, as I said, it opens up more race options. Do you know if Old Vallian as a culture gives more dialogue with them?