Judge Hades

Well, it is kind of too late for KotOR 2 so with any luck they will do better with KotOR 3. It is unfortunate that KotOR series went down in quality this time around in this regard.

Too many skills?!?!?!? Have you ever played Fallout or Neverwinter Nights. Personally I think there are too few skills.

You mean the topic was derailed in like page 2 of 9 of which you played a major role? Sure... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey, don't use logic on him. He can't handle logic.

There is no way to repair that flaw because that flaw is inherent to the rules system that is used. In order to fix that flaw they would have to rewrite the rules system which LA would not allow because they would want to keep their tie in with the Star Wars d20 System game.

Thing is it doesn't really matter since all the gameplay and conversations are the sme for the Jedi, Stasn. As for you not want to to go into a flame war you have a very strange way of presenting yourself.

so you are rather new to CRPG gaming then. Its no shame iin that I can name several games that you start off as a weak little bugger and become a moderate power in long enriching gameplay. Fallout and Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate Series, though avoid Throne of Bhaal. It was a pretty weak expansions and poorly done. There are the Icewind Dale games, and if you aren't smart you can die rather easily in any Might and Magic game. I disagree on that. Jedi are just a small part of the Star Wars universe. There are plenty of Star Wars characters and stories that are not Force related and very much a focal point of what makes Star Wars well Star Wars. Don't limit yourself to what is given. I go where I wish and when I wish, and I enjoy hopeless battles the most. If you don't like it don't read my posts. . I read only 3 novels (the Timothy Zahn trilogy), a few of the comicxs while window shopping, and of course the 5 movies that have been released. Just by that limited exposure it has been way overdone.

Even moreso.

Because I can and it needs to be done.

Well, I think it is rather disturbing what is going on at the White House and the CIA right now. Colin Powell was one of the more redeeming aspects of the Bush Administration but now he is gone.

Instead of trying to change kotor you should channel your efforts into seeing if anyone wants to make a completely open crpg. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Because we all know that the casual gamer rules all now and that style of game will no longer be made.

I have played KotOR and it makes no difference. I have played from Scoundrel/Guardian, to Scout/Counseler and once you hit the Jedi classes its all pretty much the same.

Well, why not. We all know that the only worthwhile character, as they are depicted in these games, to have in the party are Jedis. They are a bunch of overpowered munchkin characters that used overpowered uber weapons and kill everything in their path with ease. There is no point in having non-jedis in the party whatsoever. This game is based on the d20 rules system and thusly it will be judged as so. Case closed. Its a better than average CRPG and has some good points but I will not be blind to its faults, unlike you. And like that hasn't been done before over and over and over and over and over and over and over in other computer games, novels, comics, and movies. *YAWN* Maybe you haven't noticed but the main reason why I don't want to play a jedi is because I don't want an uber character. GEE, WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK IT! I rather play a non-descript techie, but that's just me. Yep, there is no need for Carth, Mission, Atton Rand! BRING ON THE BLOODY JEDI! EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE A FREAKING JEDI! Case isn't closed, but thanks for playing.

Yet unlike FO2 and BG2 you are very much forced to play only a small set of character traits and class abiltities. In FO2 you are the Chosen One but do you want to know how many different types of characters you can play. With the variations of starting traits and tag skills there are dozens of different character types you can play. In BG 2 you have a myriad of races and character classes to choose from let alone different weapon choices to focus on. In KotOR you have one race and 3 classes. BORING! It is okay my character is predetermined to be the savior or cause the damnation of the galaxy, but let me make my own character. At least give the illusion of choice. In Star Wars all Jedi classes play the same. It just doesn't matter what Jedi class you pick because there is no difference in gameplay. In BG 2 there is quite the difference in gameplay from a wizard to a fighter. There is quite a difference in gameplay between a Stealth boy/Outdoorsman than a DIplomatic Scientist in Fallout 2. In KotOR there is no difference in the force using classes and that is this games fatal flaw which should be fixed in its sequel and the only way it can be fixed is through the opening of other classes and abilities for the PC. There is a difference between having character's background predetermined for a game and having your character's game mechanic development predetermined for you.

I guess Mira is a Jedi then. Oh that Zabrak is a Jedi also. Atton Rand is also a Jedi then. I guess EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE GAME MUST BE A FREAKING JEDI! Grow a clue. The last time I check the rules system used in this product is Star Wars d20 and I do own the rules handbook and low and behold there are other classes than Jedis. Oh, there are other races than human. Gee, the rules of the game is quite open. Maybe you need to read the book. I think someone here needs a time out. Just because there aren't any games doesn't mean there shouldn't be any games like this. A CRPG is a CRPG, and a good CRPG is a good CRPG, and a bad CRPG is a bad CRPG. Plain and simple. A CRPG that allows real choice and the ability for the player to make his own character instead of playing the developers' is the first step of making and designing a good CRPG. It looks like you want a crappy CRPG.

You aren't the only one. Bottom line is I just want a good CRPG that gives me a lot of choices in dialog but also a lot of choices in character development. I want to have the feeling that I have control in my character's development, both in role play and in game mechanics. The setting is irrelevant to me. It can be FR, it can be SW, it can be Star Trek, or it can be something totlly original (which is prefered). Of course if they do use an established rules set and setting it is important they keep it canon. The way KotOR 2 is limited I feel like I am going to play the developers' character and not mine, and I hate games like that. PnP or otherwise. Its the same problem PS:T suffered and I expect games to get better over time.

We would never know because well, we aren't allowed to play non-Jedi, DSLuke.

Yes, but there are certain game mechanics that governs the actions of the game as a DM.

WHo says a non-Jedi couldn't. This isn't a representation of the movies here but based on the d20 System PnP game. I played a nice HK-47 type droid named Halberd, though built more for fighter piloting than face to face combat, and during the course of the game (we were going through the Star Wars timeline with our characters instead of the mains) and I killed Darth Vader in the Death Star run while another PC did the bomb drop. In the RPG non-Jedi can take out force users, especially on a critical hit.

Good. I was worried for a moment. "

It worked for the first game. You started to play as a non-Jedi. Also I think you guys are focusing too much on the title of the game. I mean take a look at Baldur's Gate 2. It had absolutely nothing to do with the city of Baldur's Gate yet called BALDUR'S GATE 2! GEE, WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK IT!

Yes but a lot of people here argue that in the movies no saves are there and bla bla and bla bla <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, movies are scripted. Reflex saves are not.

Which is artifical because all the force using classes play exactly the same.

It would even expand the role play options and replay value if they allowed non-Jedi classes for the primary character.

Sorry, but I don't play MMORPGs. frankly I stay away from online gaming as much as possible. They are often full of Pkers and griefers that it is just a waste of time to do any sort of role playing done.

Depends on the grenade type and if they made their Reflex save.