Spider
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It's not in Obsidian's interest to have their people lie, Spider. This isn't some sort of random comment. Nathan was making a clear statement about the game. If Obsidian keeps to the 30-40 hours claim and times average out at 20-30, then it'll be worse than if they just didn't respond at all. No, I don't think most people like to. Sometimes they must. ...But people rarely lie when they think it will be worse than the truth. In this case, saying nothing is certainly better than a lie.
I don't know if I agree with you. But first a caveat. The theory put forth in this post is just that, a theory. It's completely hypothetical. I do not intend to accuse Nathaniel Chapman of being a lier, I simply don't have enough insight to him or Obsidian to make that judgement. So with that being said, the theory goes something like this:
With all the stuff being cut recently, people on boards are becoming more and more worried. The DM Client may not appear on release, the campaign is being shortened etc. If people start thinking the game is going to be short and incomplete they will start talking, in fact threads like that has already appeared. Now, ponder for a second that something actually has gone wrong during development. That they are starting to feel rushed and that the game will be very short. If they go out and say that, they will lose a lot of customers. So saying nothing is indeed better.
But what if Atari's marketing department is starting to worry. What if they issue an order that if any estimates are going to be given out, they are to be 30-40 hours. And the kick of it is, it's so far out from release that if the game do end up 20 hours long and they get called on it, they can still say it was just an estimate and that things change in 4 months. Still, they will have gotten the results they need, the fan base will be somewhat appeased and the sales during the first week (which is a majority) won't suffer at all.
Like I said, this is all purely hypothetical, but it is an explanation why Obsidian would lie rather than say nothing. I'm not saying they are and I'm definitely hoping they're not. But it's still possible.
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Well, they will still send out review copies. Even though reviews tend to be a biased, they still help in making an informed decision.
Also, there are people for whom the length of the SP campaign is irrelevant since their main interest is the tool set. They can probably be relied upon to be honest.
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I don't know, I'm with Gromnir on this one. I just find it odd that a 20+ hour estimate is made, then a lot of stuff (including game areas) get cut and all of a sudden it's 30-40 hours. Which conveniently enough is a number a lot of people (me included) could find themselves settling for. It all seems a bit... well, convenient.
Add to this (also something Gromnir pointed out) the fact that all of these cuts were revealed after Ferret was removed from his position.
Does nathaniel Chapman have any reason to lie? Yeah, actually he does. If there is an order from Atari's marketing or the bio bosses not to give out any other figures than 30-40 hours, that is one reason. Is he lying? Now that is the true question here. I really have no idea. I hope he isn't, but there is no way of telling. I haven't seen him post enough to be able to have an opinion on that.
However, I do believe what JE says and if he says no one can make such an estimate at this time I do find it odd that an estimate is made none the less.
All we can do is wait, I guess. But I am keeping my enthusiasm on hold for a bit.
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I've posted my arguments in other threads and don't feel like repeating them. I'll summarize though:
If the DM Client is important to anyone, I advice that person to simply not buy the game until the client's been released.
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The text was readable on the low res version for me, at least when viewing full screen. Or it would have been if they hadn't clicked past it so fast (and I didn't feel like pausing every second).
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Sorry Llyranor, your post appeared while I was posting. Mine was directed to HH (so I added the quote now). Although I guess it actually would apply to you as well.
The key in it all is branding. They (Microsoft) want to take control over the livingroom and the X-box is a huge part in that strategy. Exactly what their plans for Vista are I'm not sure, but they are trying to force gamers to switch (which makes sense since they are the ones with computers that can take advantage of it).
Having X-box games playable on the PC probably isn't seen as a feasible solution though, since that'll bring with it exactly the kinds of QA problems consoles wants to avoid. Stuff like incompatible hardware etc.
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Well, if they mix with MS they could make it X-Box 360 AND Vista exclusive...
Additional profit for them... and still the MS-exclusivity...
Yeah, if that is what Microsoft wanted. But it's not. They want to brand the X-box so they can gain on Sony in the console market. They've already got complete dominance when it comes to PC gaming, so they hardly need that. True, they ARE trying to force everyone to get Vista, so they could use JE2 for that, although I still think that series are ill-suited for the computer. Once the port is done we'll see how the controls work, then further speculation may be warranted.
Edit: quote added
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Why should they try to make more money? If going exclusive secures the highest profits (not to mention publicity snice exclusive titles are heavily marketed) then why should they take another route? Just because they now has a lot of cash it doesn't mean that they will start caring less about how much money they make. The $300 millions invested need to be repaid somehow.
As for the JE PC version, my guess is that the exclucivity contract expired and Microsoft weren't interested in porting it. I will be very surprised if JE2 isn't an X-box exclusive.
Another thing about exclusivity. There are plenty of examples of developers that don't need the financial security that exclusivity brings, but choses to go that route anyway. I'm sure Square could afford to release Final Fantasy on other platforms than the Playstation, and I'm pretty sure Rockstar is in a similar situation with the GTA series.
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I fear Heavy Rain may again be more a movie experience rather than a game.
But this was exactly the point of Indigo Prophecy. You were playing a movie and that they managed to keep that stylistic vision intact throughout the game is what made it unique.
(what made it good was the story and the characters)
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Why shouldn't they? Having Microsoft as a publisher is probably a great deal, especially for those who sign exclusivity contracts.
Besides, there's probably a contract in place that gives Microsoft the right to publish a sequel.
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Let's see if I find another way to describe it that you see fitting this time. I doubt it since my other 3(?) attempts failed...
But you're still not answering the question. You're describing why it's bad not to have the DM client in the game and I get that. But what I want to know is how your gaming experience will differ from the DM client being released a month later. All you have to do is to wait until the client is released to buy the game (if you are indeed buying it at all) and your gaming experience will be virtually identical. Or even improved since a patch will hopefully taken care of any bugs in the game upon release.
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It's not the same thing though. Here we are talking two completely different components of one game, not sections within a component. This is not an issue of bugs but of missing content that has no effect at all on the gameplay.
As for Bloodlines, I played it unpatched and had no problems with bugs. There was only one I really noticed and while that one was sever I quickly found a workaround.
But you're still avoiding the question. I am, of course, assuming that you won't buy the game until the DM component is released since it's so important to you.
Simple. The DM Client was suppoosed to apart of the game. Now, it's not, and might be added as a bonus patch. It's no longer a part of what they are selling.I've already gotten your answer, so this really wasn't directed to you. And even so, the question makes the assumption that the client will be released, so the answer doesn't work.
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With the exception of those 2 sheets of paper, your desktop is pretty tidy
Two?There's more than two sheets and they're on top a few cds and a notepad. And some other stuff. And the ciar cleverly covers the right part, although there's less stuff there. But yeah, it oculd be worse, and in the past it has been.
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30% of the gamers are "not alot of people". Damn, if that was true I think NWN2 should jack up graphics and minimum reqs. Really, 30% of our fanbase we can easily miss, no?
That's not what I said at all. I was explaining why people who complain about rushed games thought it was fine that the DM client wasn't in on release. I was in no way arguing from Obsidian's point of view.
But still, you haven't answered the most relevant question.
If the DM client is released a month after the game goes retail, how does your experience change compared to the game being delayed an extra month?
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they don't have no obligation to release it all.
Except the promise they made in the post quoted. I know it's not a legal obligation, but it speaks clearly to their intent. So obligation or not, it seems to be likely that the DM client will be released.
Edit:
I find it highly amusing alot of the people who whine about those rushed games are perfectly fine with letting about 20% of a game away because they can "patch it later"...It's because in this case a lot of the people won't even consider looking at the DM-client, so not having it in the game on release won't affect their gaming experience at all. So instead of being forced to wait for a feature that has no consequence to them, they'd rather have the game released. Again, if you just don't buy the game until it's released it won't have any effect on your experience either.
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cancelling dwarves
That's a good thing tho...
We don't need the toolkit for the SP-campaign... and maybe we can reduce the shipping time with a day or 20 if we supply it in a patch.I honestly don't see the big deal here. Under the assumption that the tool kit will be produced, we have two possibilities:
1: The game gets released on time, say in september, and the DM client gets released a while, say a month, afterwards.
2: The whole game is delayed until the DM client is ready and gets released in october.
With option 1, if the toolkit is what makes or breaks the game for you, you can just wait a month before you buy it and it will be virtually identical for you as if the game was released as described in option 2. The only thing that differs is that those who don't give a damn about the DM client will have the option of getting the game in september.
Or am I missing something?
Volourns argument that if it's not in the game at release they may not do it at all is more understandable, but I personally don't think that'll come to pass.
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It all depends on what relationship the group has with eachother. With my old gaming group we would generally be able to make whatever character we wanted and our GM would find a way to get us onto the he wanted. Sometimes our characters were forced to do things they may not want to do, but we still got to play the characters. The characters may not always like what they do and when that's the case they should piss and moan about, but as long as the players and th GM have fun then that's all that matters.
The bigger question here is whether or not your players are interested in playing a campaign based on exploration and moral dilemma. If they like that type of gameplay, then getting their characters (even the pirate) into the story just requires a little creativity.
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My guess is that a graphic card is indeed one of the upgrades. 1 GB of RAM probably covers the remaining $100.
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I can't believe how tidy everyone keeps their desktop. Except mkreku (and me of course.
Here's mine:
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In any case, build me a computer right now, preferably with links to the prices, that will last anywhere near 3-4 years that only costs $400.
You said barebones PC with a decent processor. I'm assuming you're not going used (since you can get used consoles for insanely cheap too). So build me a computer that is a good gaming machine for $400.
He did say it needed to be upgraded with stuff for $4-500 to be fit for several years of gaming though.
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Anyway, how much easier can cracking be than if you (legally) DL a copy, install it and then run it, and repeat that process (All legally) with friends than finding a crack online (never did; so no idea how hard it is, but I doubt you will find one on release day; and as said there is a risk for spyware/virusses)?
Actually, a lot harder. DD is probably protected by some sort of activation key which would only be usable for one installation at a time. Maybe the game can be installed on several computers, but only one of them can actually play the game at any given time. It all depends on the implementation I guess.
Cracks for physical copies can usually be found fairly quickly. If not the day of release, then only a few days after. I've used several since I don't like being forced to switch cds when I'm switching games and since I always have several installed, that happens a lot. I've also never gotten a virus or a trojan through a game crack.
Anyway, the point here is that pirating a game is childsplay. Anyone can do it, regardless of how a game is distributed. The reason people don't pirate isn't because they don't have the ability, but because they think it's wrong and they want to support the people who make games they like.
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In case you have not seen, Feargus has answered on of the questions from the Top Ten Question thread.
Ironically enough, he didn't answer any of the actual top ten questions though.
As for the wrong linkage, he originally answered the question in another thread, the post has simply been moved from one thread to another.
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They left because you said you'd pirate the game if they didn't do what you saw fit. Pirating a physical copy is just as easy (and actually probably easier) than pirating a DD copy, so you've exposed no flaw what so ever.
As it stands today, if someone wants to pirate a game, they can, regardless of how the game is distributed.
The biggest point, and also the most ignored in this thread, is that the Developers retain control of their IP, rather than the publishers.Again assuming that developers somehoe get the ability to self finance their games. As I've stated in the past, I am all for DD but I'm not sure it will free developers from the publishers. Someone still needs to put up the cash up front.
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Given the fact that the PNJ forum just vanished, I'd have to say the future for that title seems grim.
New NWN2 OC estimate of 30-40 hrs
in Computer and Console
Posted
I doubt that will happen. Atari isn't in the best financial shape, I think they need to have this game on the streets as planned.