why

Okay, now that I have a little time to write out a post, I guess I'd better be serious and give my thoughts on it. I'm going to give shorthand arguments and I'll probably leave them to stand or not as arguments, although I might continue to discuss things. So, as far as the argument in general, I'll yield the last word to someone else, maybe Dream or someone. First of all, I don't think it's good to chain Maerwald to Caed Nua. On it's face, it seems harsh and it is clearly more or less presented as being harsh. Moreover, it seems that creating an argument that denying a soul the opportunity to return to the wheel is not good. However, the idea is not settled in the lore and the area is grey enough that an argument can be made either way. For this reason, I think a player could reasonably justify the PC's actions in chaining Maerwald. ​This boils down to two competing elements we have as players: who decides the PC's motives? Clearly, some motives are designated by the design team. The player can disagree with them, but the player is confined by the presentation. On the other hand, the player, being personally invested, 'knows' the PC in ways the developers cannot. If I have my PC explore an area and kill every red lined creature or npc, is he a heartless murderer looking for blood? Is he an explorer beset by beast and bandit? Is he simply trying to make the area safe for other travelers? Again, the game doesn't seem to have a problem with killing off red lined beasts out off the beaten path, but one could definitely argue that by going out of his way to find such beasts the PC is intruding on the beasts' territory and has no right to hunt them down to kill them. So, if you truly believe that you are committing no atrocity by chaining Maerwald, I think you've got a point. I still don't think it is ultimately just or warranted. I also look at it as a dangerous precedent in that it pave the way for other such equivalencies at other branches throughout the life of the PC. Nevertheless, while I was joking around about it, I don't have now and did not then have animosity. However, I do think of the overall basis of the argument, whether it stands or not, as being nihilistic. Not "you're a nihilistic terrorist!" sort of assertion. No, just inasmuch as the idea that preventing a soul from returning to the wheel seems nihilistic on its face to me. That's not an accusation but merely a straightforward clarification of where I stand.

Yeah, but I both identified I was just goofing around in that very thread right before I conceded that there was a logical basis for your position. I owned that you had a point straight away and have also done so since. I think these grey are fun to discuss. Really, in all seriousness at this point, don't ditcj the conversation on my account. I'll quit needling you. You've clearly been making more serious and we'll considered arguments than me anyway.

Okay, here's where I'll point our that if you want to have a beef with me, feel free. I'll write as I see fit within the guidelines of this joint and you can be as happy or upset witj y word usage as you see fit. That, my dreamy friend, will be your problem. More detailed commentary will wait until I get home. BTW: I promise I won't have enduring animosity over your over-reaction.

Dude, I think you're reading my post with an angrier ear than I'm typing it. You think I'm wrong? Cool. I have no real stake in what you do with Maerwald. I already recognized some logical merit to the argument. I just think it falls into bit of a darker grey area for my tastes. I'm just discussing the issue, but I assure you without rancor.

In all seriousness, I think players should do what they want. So I might joke about stuff, but I don't really mean anything. As far as this argument goes, it's got that 'angels dancing on the head of a pin' feel to it. If you genuinely think it's the right thing, cool. Just don't extrapolate it all the way or you'll end up with a self serving nihilistic device to justify all manner of wickedness.

Yep. You're doing him a favor by chaining his ass to the stronghold forever. In fact, it's your burden to help him by giving his soul purpose. You shouldn't feel guilty about these things. You should feel obliged. I convinced myself that I was actually helping people avoid their bodily suffering by murdering them in their sleep and taking their money. After all, a bodiless soul is a happy soul in my book. Just having a little fun with you. As a logical argument, it makes sense on some level I'm sure, but it just. doesn't. feel right.

Is it just me, or does that skeleton look a little preggers? Nice screenie though. Thanks for sharing!

Yeah, I got a little out of sorts too, but I was also worried on my first run because I'd intended to go back and buy something. Luckily the city reopened its gates.

I can't imagine I'll play without Aloth and Eder. I guess probably because I feel somewhat responsible for Aloth and I think of Eder and Aloth as a team. Eder is clearly the most sympathetic and meant to be the most sympathetic NPC. I enjoy Durance, but his syle of 2 parts nasty combined with 1 part wild eyed crazy can be offputting. Frankly, the only NPCs whose quests I haven't finished are Hirvias, the trashy (literally) monk, and whoever is in the White March 2. I'll be doing those quests next. As aside, nice transition from gossip column stuff to NPCs! P.S. I saw Hark mention the ending slide for Eder, and I thought that was brilliantly done also. Sagani's, on my second run at least, was depressing as hell.

It added to my enjoyment. I imagine at least some others enjoyed it and even more may likely enjoy it with the current improvements. I think the series of bounties buffed up experience too fast for some folks who didn't want to level quite so fast, but I did those and for the most part liked them too. I guess it's one of those mileage may vary things.

shrug. I like the stronghold. I'm glad it's there. It could use improvements, but not as many as one would suspect from the whining complaints a small vocal group make about it. Now that they've fixed some flaws, I greatly look forward to playing it again.

Is there any evidence of that bad of blood? I would think, not really having a stake in it, that it could do wonders of proving that everyone is dealing with the issue professionally if Mr. Avellone did at least some small amount of work on a future project. With the way these developers move in and out of these projects, it doesn't seem insane and the only reason to write it off entirely would be because of outright animosity behind the scenes. It doesn't matter much, I guess, but you'd just like to see everything end more or less amicably. Of course, no one has shared the exact details of the break, so animosity might be warranted, which is an excellent reason not to demonstrate it in my opinion. Better to demonstrate more class than the other guy would be my take.

I think the stronghold should have a tetris mini game item storage element to it. You have to decide on what to store and arrange it as it goes down the screen in real time. If you fail to put an item in the right configuration before it reaches the bottom, you lose it... forevah!

why and other fans twist in agonizing anticipation attended only by the maniacal laughter of Feargus and the Obsidianites! Pathfinder fans: Please, oh Dark Lord, we beseech Thee! Feargus Urquhart: Dance for me, my pretties! Narrator: What will happen next in the Pathfinder Adventures saga?! Next episode, Nathan Davis teases a streaming event only to switch in old episodes of the Dungeons & Dragons (TV series)! fade to black

I dunno. A few display cases for unique items or even oddities from your travels would be nice. Maybe even a Caed Nua Watcher Museum. Kind of like the museum from PS:T. PS I hate this tablet's autocorrect.

I think it is reading between the lines a bit. On the other hand, it's teh interwebs, so reading between the lines, rumor-mongering, and assumption makes things more fun. However, I would think that the idea that he's making a jab at Obsidian would either be personal animosity or perhaps just fun and games. This could especially be true if folks at both places knew about the theories about his departure, which they must, and they're doing a bit of the "Paul is Dead" dramatic moment.

I swear to goodness, if they made it a one time switch, there would be folks complaining about that! I would say having to do it once an act seems imminently reasonable. How awkward can it be to click on the button for two to four acts of the game? geez!

Okay, now, this doesn't seem like a soul rending decision. We'll be gentle with you blokes. We want to see how the designers enjoy the game. There is no downside for you. Surely, Paizo can't complain seeing as how there are already youtube videos about the property. Come on, Obsidz! You can do it!

Yeah. I played a priest of Eothas. I didn't mind using my imagination to fill in the gap, but it did cause some incingruities. I think the idea of how souls relate to divinity is fertile ground for RPG scenarios, especially the competing views regarding the Engwithan and their divine cinstructs.

Well, I would much rather they do it the way they did it than not leave the door open for a non-believer interpretation. For me, answered questions are not as valuable as unanswered ones, but going forth unquestioningly is all but worthless. I think I've overargued my case because I wanted there to be an unbelief option in the game from the time I heard about it and soul magic. Even before I created this account and started posting here, I had in mind these very questions and I'm actually ecstatic that they included them. Yeah, I have a slightly different spin, but I can't loose sight of the fact that this is much closer to my tastes than what I would consider the vast majority of computer games. Not as splendid as New Vegas, but they're entirely different settings with entirely different underpinnings. I also think that the wonderful music really went a long way in establishing the sort of melancholy of your association with Iovarra and Thaos. It's like a reverse love triangle where everyone gets screwed, but without the sex.

Good points, good doctor. Having hashed out my thoughts over several posts, it's time for me to let what I've said stand (or fall) on its own. However, I want to reiterate one. last. time. I don't really care if the game is anti-, pro-, or religion neutral. I actually agree with you, Dr., that the idea is interesting. I just think it could have been explored better. It's funny that some folks agreed with Thaos, though. It reminds me of Dostoevsky who was deeply religious and always worried his anti-religion arguments were sometimes more powerful than his defense of his beliefs. I think he kind of though the Catholic church (Roman Catholic) was actually kind of tainted by secular and even atheist elements. As a Catholic, I've been called anything from a Satanist, to the Whore of Babylon, to, ironically, an atheist. That's my crazy protestant friends for you. Hawk has a point about that, although my atheist friends have sometimes been quite sternly vocal to me also. Anyhow, that's just an aside. I plan on starting my next run right after I get the White March 2, and I'll still love the game regardless of what I see as a missed opportunity.

I've intended for a long time to start my third run with the White March part 2 installed. With the improvements on the stronghold, which you get pretty early in the game, it just seems that I want to experience everything from scratch. That and Od Nua should be more interesting. I'm hoping the idea that it's stronger but with fewer trash mobs translates to longer and more tactical battles. I love the game, but a lot of battles were all about using a few spells and basically letting my party throw themselves at the bad guys. That dragon at the bottom, though, she was a real bitch!

Give it time, and perhaps a Stalin or two. You just need to have someone who thinks that the only way to save humanity is to make sure everyone else believes or disbelievers as he sees best. The game could just as easily have centered on an NPC who tried to promote disbelief in the Engwithan gods and started killing kith for their own good. That wouldn'the have changed my initial point about the fact that deeply held beliefs don't typically change on a dime. The fact is, the problem with soul burning faith is that it leads to a myopic view that justifies its every means by the product of its ends, and that soul burning faith can be in God or Allah. It can also be the faith in a State made God. It can even be the faith in the Self made God. Communists have persecuted Christians, and that puts the idea that religion is the source of all conflict in a brighter light. The idea that the gods created conflict (or more appropriately the belief in gods) was a flawed idea in the game and it's a flawed idea in reality. The devs provided an excellent counterpoint when the NPCs said in response to the whole dilemma was that people would find cause to make war with or without the gods. To be clear about this, once again, even if they'd actually said that all divinity is truly evil not only in its byproduct and belief, but the very intent driving divine actions, I would be okay. They'd just need to make it rise above the level of the five minute infomercial. Sorry, Hawk, I actually edited quite a bit into this post, which is unfair I think but I didn't want to double post, especially in my own thread. That's too pathetically narcissistic even for me!

Anyhow, the real point is the alacrity with which it unfolded. It's not a deal breaker for me. I greatly enjoyed the game and I look foreward to the PotD run I intend to start after the WM part 2 ships. It's just jarring, is all. As an aside: protestantism v. Catholicism is not the same as either one v. atheism. I edited out a personal story. Not because relating it really bothered me, but there is such a thing as too much sharing. Don't want to make folks uncomfortable. <.<

You can find I think at least three camping supplies in Act IV. Although I do recognize that there is at least some limit to complete rest spamming. And yet another although I don't think rest spamming, for all the yammering about it, is a real issue anyway.