Nur Ab Sal

Becouse 80% of TSL buyers are guys who earlier bought KOTOR.

I like K2 general storyline but I think that Obsidian should put more effort in developing interesting roles for K1 crew. So far only Canderous Can received some logical and coherent development.

First: TOTJ comics stated that all worlds of Sith Empire were assimilated by Old Republic before Great Sith War and that entire Sith Race was exterminated by the Jedi. So all that remained in Revan times is idea and relics. Second: I like idea of an redemption but Revan's redemption is poorly executed. On the other hand Ulic Qel Droma's redemption is executed perfectly and I love it! So I don't like entire concept of revan and his story. IMO It sounds lame to me... Lame redemption is Bioware's idea. Obsidian added an excuse idea: yes Revan killed and robbed but he did this becouse of some hidden danger he knew about it! Yeah and Stalin knew about nazism so he murdered 30 million peolpe to build heavy industry to be prepared for nazi danger. The same kind of nonsense to me.

Brilliant words

Well, it's an assumption on my part, but I do think it's a fairly obvious one. The Sith Empire was said to be more powerful than the Republic, though smaller. Still, that was in the golden age of the Sith, when Naga Sadow began the Hyperspace War, and the Sith Empire was probably hurt a lot when they lost that war. Then again, that was a thousand years before KotOR, so a lot may have happened since. For example, both Malachor V and Korriban seem to be known worlds in the Republic. But there are still several of those worlds we haven't heard much about or which haven't been used since in KotOR games, including Ch'hodos, Rhelg (the private world of Ludo Kressh), and Khar Delba and its moon Khar Shian (which was Naga Sadow's secret world). And naturally the most central world is the throne world, where the Dark Lord of the Sith rules the empire - Ziost. And that is where I suspect Revan may have gone, and where a KotOR3 may take us. May not seem like much, but I always got the impression that these were just a few names for some token Sith worlds that served as examples for the all the worlds we didn't hear about. After all, the Sith empire was an empire, so it's scarcely just one planet. Besides, note how Kreia says that Malachor and Korriban - which are the only old Sith worlds we hear of - were on the outskirts of the Sith empire... That leaves us plenty of Sith to bash in the next game <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree but established EU lore says that Sith Empire totally fell in the wake of the Great Hyperspace War 1000 years before KOTOR, and its worlds were assimilated by the Republic. That's why spirits of old sith lords prepared Exar Kun to start the Sith War - he was intended to be the instrument of revenge for the destruction of their legendary empire. I think that blurb about such empire existing in Revan time's is a clear contradiction and something very repetitive - just like in TSL, the Jedi Disapperance Plot that stripes Luke Skywalker OT Era from unique originality. Besides Revan is a villain and killing Malak couldn't truly reedem him. He was Stalin of his times, he had blood of millions on his hands and Kreia's babbling about his supposed "sacrifice for greater good" (in name of which he murdered so many jedi) sounds like lame excuse. It is similar to Timothy Zahn's efforts to justify Thrawn when he wrote in "Hand of Thrawn" that Thrawn tried to protect galaxy from the dangers hidden in the unknown regions and that's why worked for Palpatine -TSL crap sounds the same and I suspect that Avellone just plagiated Zahn's concept - this is the same try of excusing a powerful villain.

Bastila fits in K2 story perfectly: on Korriban her hologram says that she's going to find Revan and that's a good start: you could later meet her in game and she could join your party on her quest. So that element was totally unexploited. And I think that she would still have more to tell than Goto or Hk47. Especially considering that K2 party members have very thin development and life stories. I would make a good use of her: in K2 no one was as capable warrior as she. Handmaiden and Visas are very weak, and I really miss Bastila's murderous lightsaber!

Despite obvious flaws like strange force discussions, true sith crap and unused potential of main protagonists Nihilus and Atris, TSL is still superior in every aspect to KOTOR and it's incredibly naive, childisch, clumsy and stupid story. So it should get much more GOTY awards, but I guess that sequel handicap merged with lack of promotion worked here.

I always thought this is the harbinger medbay where Sion was sleeping.

Yeah, we always back to the root of all problems: time limit forced by LA. Have this game been released in february 2006 it would be truly perfect.

Wow thanks Battlewookie. I thougt my thread is doomed forever...

And I recall that all party members will make a cameos. Plus you can't say that Carth cameo was even close to being something memorable.

Everything OK but Carth and Bastila had also "death options", yet Obsidian somehow forgot about it. I think that time limit was the main factor here. But they shouldn't advertise all that cameo thing.

Am I blind or party members from KOTOR 1 don't do any "memorable cameos" in TSL? Avellone and Gallo had their mouths full of promises how great continuity will between two parts. And all we have is laughable Carth&Bastila dialog (ironically two most important characters of K1 were reduced to smallest possible roles), canned Canderous and absolutely redundant HK47. And where's Zaalbar, Mission and Jolee? Of course game is still good enough without them, but one shouldn't promise something and later forget about it, heh?

So how many Game of the Year awards TSL has already won?

On a K2 related forum? What are you, nuts? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> because LA is so tight with their properties, you need to go to their website to see the concept art. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, but various artists that worked for Lucasfilm often post their star wars works (cover art, comic excerpts) on their websites and portfolios. LA has no way to prevent it, cause it's a well known custom. Dave Dorman, Terese Nielsen, Chris Gosset, Ryan Church.... so Obsidian can publish their own gallery of K2 concept art without fear. We must only get their attention!

Back to the topic, please people.... if you have nothing to say about Revan's fate just be silent.

That would clear his name, but I thought that LA gave OE free hand except for identity flashback?

This isn't Chris' fault that gredy LA gave him so little time - but it's his fault that he screwed TSL near-perfect story with true sith/revan blurb which turns out to be more important than struggle with nihilus.

After playing TSL, despite my respect for its great storyline, I'm almost sure that KIII will be the worst of the entire series if next developer will decide to continue Revan blurb. This entire "true sith" thing and trip to unknown regions sounds more lame than most of the EU crap. Does OE really had to continue these boring and unclear revanesque suckage? In any way in KIII we'll meet big disappointment cause Star Wars witnessed hidden threats and unknown dangers far too many times - and always it was just an excuse for authors' lack of imagination. I suspect that Avellone was deflated and so he decided to avoid showing Revan's fate and tell story of some big dark unknown threat that captured Revan... anyhow in KIII true sith and this hidden danger will prove to be just another BIG NOTHING. This is just a digression and nothing more, cause despite time limit, TSL proved to be better game than KOTOR could have ever been. Bioware idlers had 3 years and all they did, was copying Neverwinter Nights story and characters. Obsidian had one year and made explosive story, better movies, better feats and force powers, better worlds and side quests... but why they decided to overshadow TSL main quest with Revan's story? In TSL the potential of interesting characters like Atris or Nihilus was virtually unused, and all story seems so insignificant - in the end gamer learns that all his actions are meaningless cause all that matters is Revan's fate in the unknown regions. So his effort in finishing the game was also meaningless - he could just wait for KIII to hear again how great Revan is... One year ago I imagined that TSL story will have this shape: LS K1ending: Revan's working for Jedi Council and whether you are LS or DS you either cooperate with him or have to kill him DS K1 ending: Revan and Bastila almost conquered Republic and no matter if you're DS or LS you have to eliminate them... perhaps during final battle for coruscant on their flagship I also imagined that Nihilus and Sion will be Revan's lackeys (DS K1 ending)or independent players (LS K1 ending) Instead, we hear that genius Revan supposedly was, suddenly abandoned his armies and followers (although nothing stood between him and crushing the republic) and left them rot. Republic is fatigued but in much better shape than in K1, Bastila transformed herself from ass-kicking heroine to sex slave waiting for Revan and doing nothing else - this makes no sense. This is subjective of course but I think that TSL would be much more satysfying if Revan's Problem got solved in it, instead of inventing some true sith... this would left a lot of free space for KIII story. Only thing that was always bothering me in KOTOR series was Revan and his faceless, ridiculously perfect and unbelievable person. In 2003 I believed in advertising slogan "Engage in the golden era saga" and that I will be able to create my own character and his own story. Yet in half of the game it turned out that my all choices were insignificant cause bioware forced their own hero with his own story (let's add poorly written) so I felt cheated... it is sad that KOTOR series is full of praises for some jackass that doesn't even have official face, gender or life details. What Mike Gallo wants to achieve anyway? In KIII all these rubbish revan/true sith threads will have to be revealed and I doubt anyone will be satisfied. Wouldn't it be better if Revan wasn't ever invented and KOTOR would be a Revan-free game? Surely there is a plenty of stories that could be told instead of his pathetic saga. People like John Ostrander prove that you can tell serious and interesting stories in the star wars universe, without escaping into creation of a jedi superman who is worshipped as god by his contemporaries.

I'd rather prefer gentle opinions, but who knows what will happen. Personally I doubt my initiative will have any impact, but you always have to try...

The point is, to give Obsidian a clear impression that they should organize a gallery of concept art made by their artists. Whether this idea will work or not, it's beyond my influence.

I really like concept art of TSL and crave more. In this thread all who share my feelings may support the cause, and beg Obsidian to reveal more of TSL brilliant concept art. A plenty of works are available on Gamespot or IGN but in Prima Game Guide I have noticed many pictures that you don't see anywhere else. Unfortunately they are in low resolution only. It would be a good idea to make a gallery of Obsidian concept art, that anyone who lurks this website could visit. This gallery could contain virtually all concept art produced during TSL development, so KOTOR fans could track the entire creative process. Besides it would be a good way to promote Obsidian Entertainment...

The password is: END GROWL E = left N = down D = down G = Right R = right O = down W = down L = left It unlock droid planet movie, footage of unused NPC Dvakvar Grargh and some minor things. 92_19604_sm.bmp

I really hate HK-47. They shouldn't screw Galaxies with him. KOTOR is enough.

The fate of the game is in your hands.