Surface Reflection

Well, considering it is you who is proposing something out of context, silly and inapplicable by your own admittion, not to mention horrible in execution in reality, its no wonder you would consider da:i an evolution of BG games. Which makes any ordinary Platypus have an advantage over you.

Seems to me like you guys are saying a Ranger would benefit from improved additional movement skills, as a skirmish - avoidance kind of a ability for example would be, something to use to jump out of close combat scuffle, while being resistant to engagement and disengagement attacks to facilitate greater movement options in general. For his ranged attacks, those that slow down or cripple movement and accuracy of other classes would be a nice addition, right? So you use him more tactically from the distance. Not sure what to do with the pet though...

Well, opinions of just because... It is true it is a part of the IE games feel, but in those games you actually had to move your team around a lot. Besides that PoE is not meant to be carbon copy of IE games, which is obvious since several features are improved versions of some of the IE, BG features. Progress and evolution gentlemen.

Wusses... I already wrote that an alternate version of this can be made where a few other select classes or creatures and enemies, etc could have different versions. Fighter can engage up to three targets this way currently, if they improve the skill. But whatever is done, if it is done at all, should make this a clear advantage (or danger from) of fighters and just an lesser additional skill or a talent for few other classes. Because of several other reasons, all written above already. I dont think Monks need it, for example. Palladin.. yeah, i guess. As a talent. Military training. Maybe some of the starting backgrounds could have that skill enabled by default. All these classes have plenty of their own abilities. In a nice seemingly counter-intuitive way, doing this would make other classes more original since the players would need to concentrate more on using their original abilities and playing them differently then basically as just another kind of a fighter. Unless of course you are making the game for backline ease of use. Then all this doesnt matter much.

The shortest way to stop being treated like crap is to stop writing and behaving like crap. Asking for a "truce" while dishing out your self serving delusions about my personality as fact isnt really an example of inteligence, after about four pages of various inane or just completely unrelated crap you and those few trolls unloaded here - and which you seem intent on prolonging by directly accusing me as the reason for all that. For better and improved movement during combat. Thats stats and mechanic dependant, or in other words reflected in the physical world of the game more. Not "animations" as in just any kind of. I would so tell you where to take that flipping... But to the point, a 3d person or even FP action game is not relevant at all, and rolling around - which cannot be applied in a game like poE anyway since it would look amazingly ridiculous - was one of the worst things in that half consolized wreck of a game, generally hated by all.

Fighters needed to control melee combat? Perish the thought! Great Scott, What a dangerous idea! Why i Never! Quick, lets organize demonstrations against it! Call the peasants! youd much rather... ...and a priest Is it the priest of love precious? :snort: how about a bard? rofl... make a front line of chanters and druids too. - but of course you wouldnt even think about playing with those classes skills and advantages, no.. better if everyone has fighter abilities and then we can complain how bad fighters are and not take them into parties, while it never even crossed your mind that also makes all enemies have the same schtick skill too so every fight is you standing in place, party all bunched up into enemy group and clicking icons on the hot bar. Well.. as long as your ease is ensured... and safety of your backline...

Oh, right. Didnt see the ignored posts back there. Thats all taken in consideration already. I doubt that engagement is there just for any single thing, or class. I think the game would still benefit from delegating it to fighters only state and that should unburden the Ai so it can maybe try some other moves too. Additionally, it seems a lot of classes already have several ranged skills or spells or abilities that could work very well in countering the ranged part of kiting process, useful for both PC and various enemies.

Was that supposed to go into the Monk thread? ok,ok... just crash here in the couch. well sort that out tomorow.

Happy new year to all humans still capable of common sense and thinking straight. The rest can go jump off a cliff. The sooner the better. I think it comes down to the uncanny valley here - the more realistic the graphics, the more realistic the animations need to be. When super-mario was running on the NES, we accepted the running animation because the sprite itself was so simple. If you take COD-level figures and animate them like super-mario, your brain goes 'WTF?' Your brain is more willing to abstract when there's less info than when there's more (or something). So in Avernum (and IE games, etc), the graphics and animations did their job fine, and can do so again when replayed today - but given the higher graphics of PoE currently in place, we expect higher level of animation to go with it. (Not saying I'm unhappy with what we've got so far - though I would like the disengagement attacks to be animated in some way) There is that expectation, true. Recently it was most visible in evolution of TB games, long awaited and finally visible in games like D:OS. But knowing that, i took special care to minimize that influence of that on my suggestions and ideas for PoE specifically. My suggestions dont come from that direction, but from the desire to see these new mechanics translating into physicality in the game. So, form the start, i was talking and thinking only about improvements to the - body movements in combat thats dependent on stats and mechanics - that could be feasible and doable in the time remaining. Few steps back and forth, sidestep or two, a jump ? PCs and enemies that are moving at least a little bit around while they fight? Nothing more terrible then that.

There is discussing the topic subsidiary angles or loosely connected subjects and then there is blatant trolling based on literal stupid lies, strawman arguments and ad hominem flaming. Feel free to be conformist in such a measure to become incapable of seeing that difference and to therefore, inadvertentčy support "that". But dont talk to me about it. Also, the subject are minimalistic, realistic as possible ,considering the late situation, additions and improvements to characters and NPC, creatures and enemies movement in combat, coupled with improved animations at least when it comes to special moves. I said that three pages ago already.

And there we go... another re-translation of what i actually think. un ****ing believable. the stupidity of it, trying to say it right after i said thats one of the stupidest blatant idiocies you few cretins do ... wow... (hey, ... reminds me of the codex)..

It devolved because a few of you are not capable of reading the OP where that is clearly addressed, because you are not capable of accepting answers to your falsely presented declarations of what the devs are working or not working on. And several repeats of the same process. After which you complain you were somehow misunderstood little angles trying your best to heeeeeelp and got "raved at" you poor little you. Which is another blatant lie (or more likely a psychological problem) that you just declare. - contrary to reality. And you were even provoked? No way? Its all those other guys fault? It just fell did it? btw, to be clear, i see all that as more of a almost instinctive reaction, not evil intent, that happens once someone doesn't automatically say yess to whatever you claimed out of the blue. Which is usually some fairytale you tell yourself. Which is then talked about as if thats the problem. So someone just repeats how i want each attack animated, despite the contrary explanations which are disregarded, how devs are not working on many game features despite the current real situation, that the updates say they wont work on anything except bugs and balances - which they dont actually, and other such pointless crap and inane mewling "insults" and more strawmans... and even re-translations of what happened even though posts are still there a few pages back... because internet memory is two posts short. I think Hanlons razor is correct in this case, it just really isnt nice to watch over and over and over. Isnt that awesome... how about talking about that instead of what a poor nice victim you are.

Better to make things crystal clear now then watch that pointless drivel for two more pages. Flushed down the ignore pipe. Seems just having a thread about an idea makes certain psychological profiles go into neurotic episodes. They just cant stand there being a thread they dont like. And they get so whacked that after a few starting brainfarts they just go into full repeat mode, just to create enough garbage posts , because they really dont care why or what, its not like they have actual counter arguments or points, just dislike and they just want it all to stoooopp... Ive been watching that same dumb behavior online for dozen years now, so you might wanna imagine how slick and smart and stealthy such geniouses look to me.

Ive noticed that you tried to "help me with feeling disappointing" or some other such incredibly idiotic personal phantasmagorical notion. I laughed at how stupid and cheap you are, what intellectual worm. In rl i would have tricked you and fooled you into believing i am buying that, took you somewhere aside and then disfigured you. You stupid pretentious ****. Thast how smart you really are. Youre shining from a mile off. Help me lowering expectations... ... how disgusting. how low... ughh..

Excellent. That means all such effects can be used by enemies and creatures, where necessary. umm... does the monk himself display any movement during combat and execution of those moves? Any sidesteps, jumps or half jumps, does he move at all or just punches from a spot, standing still? When he moves around is it different then how other characters move, even slightly? stuff like that.

Kick it away? Like send it flying backwards or something? Any other such stuff that influencing enemy positions or movement?

Im not sure why are you even posting anything if you have nothing to add except repeating that ... "its all pointless". Or "i dont know what to say" as a reply to a post taking time and effort to explain things to you. How about just not saying anything if you have nothing to say? who the hell cares what you think about anyone's opinion? Who the hell are you to judge why he wrote anything? Or criticize him for it? He was on topic and clearly talked out of enthusiasm about the subject and presented one such advanced model, built on same principles, that could be used in some future game. And you are such a cheap self serving sycophant that you go out of your way to try to berate another poster who is contributing to the topic by outright lying he was talking about PoE despite his clear words in the very quote you posted. / Anyway, in some other good news... http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69813-monk-fighting-style-in-392bb-impressions/ Looky, looky... new animations - which translates into special power strikes and types of moves in gameplay... = Monk awesome. Seems they forgot they are not supposed to do that but just fix bugs for several months.

That has no relevance here since its completely different PoV and style of the game. Another reapeat of argument from absurdity. if you cant do it like this single player action rpg game then nothing should be done at all - idiocy. Still trying to implant the same strawman from pages ago about absurd idea that every attack has to be modelled visually. That he himself invented. In all that telepathy about figuring out what i really mean, like. = On ignore, irrelevant.

that's kinda what I meant. In a twitch game, you'd find lengthy animations, that stop you controlling the character, annoying - in PoE, you can't perform an action right at that moment anyway, so it's not 'taking control away' Oh, I understood you wrong then. ;P sorry. Yeah, we think the same really. Often when playing an rpg your character is busy doing something in combat already. Executing some order you gave. Its not an "animation that is taking control away" from anyone but just your character performing some feat or doing something. That you told him to do. Then, adding more of that practically means your characters and enemies would have more to do. Especially if its reflecting the mechanics and not being there just for show. Yes... but what i would really like to see is fighters moving around instead of standing in place. Animals and creatures doing something else then running straight into the party... stuff like that. Not just different swings and attacks. More natural body moving during combat. For everyone. And that then could be used by Ai to plan better scenarios, to combine different ingredients. yeah, maybe some day. there was a few kickstarters that were shooting for such very ambitious enhanced combat... maybe some of them will come to fruition.

The problem with allowing other classes to have it is that then either all, or a lot of enemy creatures and opponents have it too. My suggestion is working both ways, for player characters and NPCs and creatures or animals. I think it would work much better and be much clearer if it was an ability only fighters have. If it was clearly a specific ability. with some slight optional variations as i wrote above. - i trust the devs would know bets which of the bestiary would benefit from sneakingly having some kind of engagement ability too. You can play with its inner mechanics and effects to create modified versions for special monsters and creatures, etc. Some could have enaggementability that increases their damage against selected oponent, ... all kinds of stuff. As for kiting, engagement only helps with its first half, the disengagement itself. Moving away from an enemy. But the rest of kiting is a ranged problem, not a melee one, therefore that other half of the problem can only be countered with various ranged skills and spells. I already saw several such spells or abilities across the classes that would fit that bill perfectly. Barbarians rush, Rogue "switch places" skill, chanters have some spell that either slows down enemies or cripples something... - unfortunately i only scanned it all fleetingly but, i believe there is already some ranged stuff already in the game thats very fitting for this business. A few new skills or spells, or extra modifications of ones already there could be made to strengthen such capabilities of all, player characters and enemies alike. Then the Ai which wont be so hobbled by everyone engagement, could do some other things then just stand in place. If then some nice movement and combat animations could be added... it would all be much livelier.

Nice. You could have deleted five posts above yours too, as far as im concerned. Would be nicer reading. As to the subject at hand, some better body movement in combat, some special attacks or defense moves, some difference in movement of different creatures (as in - not suicidal run forward) ... would go a long way in this case, especially with improvements in enemy Ai and maybe changing how engagement works. And speaking honestly, im of the opinion such a big super talented and experienced team as PoE team is could do a lot in the months remaining, if they would really want to do it and put their minds and skills to it.

Yeah, trying very hard. Instead of reading what i said and have been repeating several times over. Instead... its better if you "try to figure it out". And then talk about what i am "actually thinking" to a third person. You got the : "making empty declaratory statements" part right" And being mewling passive aggressive stereotype. That repeats itself after he says he will go away while sniffing and talking into his ****. and burned at the stake too

right.... right. its me that is hostile. sure thing. its obvious, after all.

Really? After three pages you "dont get" what im suggesting, after me telling exactly what about a dozen times... and you talk to a third person about what im actually suggesting while answering and referencing his contribution, an idea and presentation that NWN had? Which he gives as an example that is actually very related to what we are actually talking about. He never claimed anywhere thats my thought process. He is making his own example and yes, thats pretty close generally. You even try to imply that the alternative is also a completely absurd notion of "attack for attack" animations despite several explanations i made that say practically the opposite of such extremes. its pretty obvious that its the usual "i dont like what they are saying - have nothing factual or relevant to add - go to strawman and ad hominems teritory". Is it? Or maybe you just didnt pay any attention at all so far? Agreed. Even BG at this point had some movement in combat, and second one was even better. Although it was relatively simple stuff. As i said, special moves like succeful dodge or parry, critical strike or stuff like that should have character movement that is under control of stats and mechanics. You already get knocked down, paralyzed or stuff like that. If you get a critical and suffer some status effect you dont expect to be able just to click and get that character performing as if nothing happened. You also get it backwards whats a twitch game. of course there are versions of it and some had done it badly, by taking control away from the player too much in fact, but generally speaking the player has more control over his avatar or character moves in twitch action games. its only natural, right?

Nah, i get plenty in Age of Decadence. But thanks anyway. Well, maybe ill check it, if its good... why not. Not to mention...