Darth Blivion
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Posts posted by Darth Blivion
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It doesn't really matter, the point I'm trying to make is that Darth Nihilus shouldn't be included on any 'most powerful Sith Lord' list because he's just a planet/life eating monster that cares nothing for the Sith/Republic/Jedi. He only cares about 'feeding his hunger'.
It's not like he would have just ruled the galaxy as the Dark Lord of the Sith if he succeeded in wiping out the Republic and the Jedi, he would have consumed the Sith as well, and all life, until there is nothing left to feed his hunger on.
Having a technique such as his which 'cannot be taught', only gained through 'experiencing its effects first hand' does not make Darth Nihilus powerful, there is no strength in the hunger he possesses and the will behind his power is a primal thing that rules him, not the other way around.
To determine how powerful Darth Nihilus is, you would have to go back and find out how strong in the force he was before he became this 'Lord of Hunger' weirdo and that can't be done, since no one knows who Darth Nihilus actually is. All we know is that 'he's just a man'.
The force is what consumes him or precisely, the need to overcome the restrictions the dark side has placed upon him i.e. he will die and be consumed by the dark energies he sought to attain. In many ways I think Nihilus is very much in control of his 'hunger'. What you have to remember is that it is constantly trying to kill him, his "hunger" - as Kreia mentioned - is a primal thing, but Nihilus is not. The leeching serves as a means to keep the 'hunger' from consuming him.
Nihilus remains a Sith Lord as is evident in the following link. http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.p...heid=13-457&p=3 Pretty much shoots down your argument. And Nihilus cares only for himself and Visas (his apprentice), which is pretty much how Sith are expected to be: selfish.
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Still nothing special. I remember Malak saying same kind of things to other members of that vision.
He didn't speak to anyone but the Exile in that vision, so you're wrong here. The Exile was on par with the best Jedi of his era. That's what he was written to be. It's like saying Han Solo is nothing special as far as smugglers go. Of course he was special, he's the only smuggler (besides Lando) in the OT.
It actually have no use until Malachor V. As weapon I mean.
What do you mean as a weapon? It only becomes a direct weapon when the Exile goes dark side, otherwise it (the force bond)always fanctioned as a "force magnet", drawing force energy from the Exile's surroundings. It was used to strengthen the resolve of the Exile's soldiers allowing them to perform daring feats during the Mando Wars. Even as a padawan, Master Vander seems to recognize this ability within the Exile, when he mentions he has a unique strength.
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Question one has been explained
G0T0 - acccording to cut content - is destroyed by HK 47 in the LS ending and the Remote is allowed to activate the MSG thus destroying Malachor 5 for good.
If you spoke to Kreia after defeating her, she tells you that Mira dies years later on some distant planet saving lives (LS) or she's killed years later by someone on Ord Mantell (DS).
As for the Ebon Hawk, I'm not sure. The alternative could be that the ship you see flying off in the distance is another ship (perhaps Kreia's). It's feasible that the Exile downloads vital information (Revan's whereabouts) from the Ebon Hawk into T3 before arriving at Malachor 5. This is merely my opinion based on the established events. The loose ends could easily be tied with a few explanations like these.
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The Exile's Jedi Masters spoke well of his skill in battle before the Mandalorian wars. So there is evidence there, that he was already displaying his talent before the Mando wars and well before Malachor 5. His force bond in on itself, made him more than an average force user.
Secondly, the Exile force bonding is his "own" strength. It's his force talent, much like Bastila's battle meditation or Anakin's affinity to the force. The difference here, is that there is an overt reason why the Exile isn't like everyone else, as opposed to an author merely writing that "he's powerful and has prodigious talent.
To clarify what I'm saying you should consider asking and answering the following simple questions.
Why is the Exile powerful in the force, why does he have a strong connection to the force? He has a force bonding ability that draws force energy from the people and places around him. The contrast would be: why is Revan strong in the force? Becuase he has a strong connection to the force. But why is he strong in the force? Becuase he was born with it, but in saying that, everyone in SW IS born with some connection to the force.
So the reason for Revan's strength in the force doesn't extend beyond the story writers declaration, while the Exile has a reason that is traced back to his natural ability to form force bonds. They were both born with their force sensitive abilities the difference is that the reasons for the Exile's ability is defined by more than just an authors declaration or to be kinder, natural circumstance.
Many authors want to have an explanation for their characters prowess that goes beyond writing: "he was super strong because he was naturally super strong."
That's why Superman's powers come from absorption of yellow sun radiation by his body cells. Dark Seid's super powers are related to his planet's proximity to The Source (an entity that contains the essence of creation). Vandal Savage is immortal because of a mutation he acquired from a meteor etc etc Just having super strong characters that have no underlying reason for their superior strength just seems like lazy story telling to me.
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The Exile, Nihilus and Sion are powerful. The Exile is powerful because he can form force bonds with ease. At least there is some effort to explain why he's powerful, as opposed to an author simply writing that he was a prodigy or uber powerful in the force. And now Nihilus and Sion are all of a sudden not powerful? Nihilus can end lives at will, while Sion kept himself "alive" under near impossible circumstances through sheer will - not some special ability.
For the Exile, and Sion especially, they attained their power by choice as opposed to just being written in as uber powerful force sensitives. As for Nihilus his power exists in his ability to strip the force from force sensitives, that means anyone not-named-the Exile wouldn't stand a chance against Nihilus in a one-on-one situation.
Also, the Exile is talented. In the Korriban Cave vision Malak tells the Exile that: "Your master's speak well of you, of your skills in battle". That's evidence there that the Exile was indeed talented. As a student -I assume - he wasn't distinguishable from the rest of the rabble (we have to remember also that this was Vrook speaking), but as a Jedi he was certainly at par with the best of his era. I also remember Vandar giving a less biased assesment and saying: "average-student of the force, but with a unique strength".
The real difference between the Exile and Revan and/or Malak, is that his authors took the time to give a reason for his above average or exceptional strength in force, rather than simply say he was a prodegy which would have been less interesting.
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Umm... no again
It's in the game. "....the greatest of her students comes to Telos" - Atris to the Exile during or after their duel. She references Darth Nihilus as his Sith fleet descends on Telos.
Do some investigating next time.
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Also, - for Nihilus - Atris mentions: "the greatest of her (Kreia) students comes to Telos".
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I think she mentions that it is the "greatest of Sith techniques" when she talks about the force draining technique specifically, not Nihilus. I know full well she doesn't mention it when you ask her about Nihilus directly. I'll confirm it within a few days.
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My list of most powerful Sith Lords in Kotor:
1. Darth Nihilus - drained an entire planet of life, if that isn't a sign of raw force power, I don't know what is. As Kreia mentioned: " It is the greatest of Sith techniques."
2. Darth Traya - drained three Jedi Masters of the force with such apparent ease, that you wonder about the limits of her power.
3. Darth Sion - used his sheer strength of will to keep himself "alive", even after his body was clinically dead. This ability made him virtually immortal.
4. Darth Revan - didn't do much as a Sith Lord, (except turn Jedi) but he was certainly a powerful force sensitive.
5. Darth Malak - used the Star Forge to empower himself and his power level wasn't that far from Revan's.
I didn't put the Exile on that list, because even though I suspect that he could very well have learnt Sith techniques in the ds playthrough, I don't think he would care about the Sith code i.e. he'd still be rogue Jedi with intimate knowledge of the Sith ways. A Sith Lord in name alone, not in spirit and mind.
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I don't see why being friendly to Bastilla leads to being "friendly" ie: the pressing together of fleshy teeth coverings.
That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm not sure how Revan becomes romatically involved with Bastila. All the evidence points towards a Mentor-Apprentice relationship or merely a platonic friendship.
And I disagree with whoever compared it to Leia - Han. Han had expressed intrest for Leia the moment he met her. He was always trying to get her attention from the first time they met. Leia (for her part), naturally tried her best to be as abrasive as possible (but this is natural - she was testing his sincerety and trying to reveal his intentions). Lastly, Leia behaved much older than her years, her maturity attracted Han to her, just as much as her exterior beauty did.
I have no problem with the Bastila - Revan romance, I just don't agree that it is anything special. And that's mostly because it never feels anything more than a video game side quest. It just doesn't seem like a natural progression.
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Indeed. It wasn't anything special, and as someone said, it didn't make much sense. For one:
1) Bastila is young and acts like a youngster. So it's unlikely that Revan would find her particularly appealing. She was naive, stubborn and childish.
2) Bastila would naturally not want to hook up with a former Sith Lord.
3) Jedi aren't meant to hook up in the first place. This coupled with her naivety would usually mean that she wouldn't want to give in to Revan advances.
4) How the hell light hearted banter and little jokes turned into a full blown romance isn't very clear. I've seen characters with better chemistry, who never had their relationship blossom into a full blown romance.
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I just can't accept that, when there isn't any continuity at present and when all the playthroughs can be options to be used for continuity.
Well duh!
This is the paradox that I pointed out. There can't be multiple Revan's in SW history, or Exile's! Especially in Revan's case ending must be LS, as in DS Revan crushed the Republic, and we know that Republic was not crushed until movie era. I use word crushed, as Revan was canonized before K2. K2 changed this however, as both "versions" of Revan left to unknown regions.
Canonical characters are only for contiunity. You may still play all Kotors as you want
DS Revan never "crushed" the Republic. He "crushed" a single Republic fleet that assualted the Star Forge, the Republic had more fleets in the core worlds. Bastila mentions that their path to the core planets is open, but the war with the Republic would be far from over, even after that.
It is clearly stated that defeat at Star Forge would doom Republic. As DS, it was. Revan's infinite fleet would roll on and crush all resistance.
Revan's is military genious, Bastila has battle meditation, infinite fleet as is seen, is ****ing enormous, and defeat at Star Forge has destoyed nearly whole remaining Republic fleet.
It is stated that Bastila DS & Sith would be end of Republic. How is situation with Bastila, enormous sith fleet AND Revan?
" Kotor's are not only contiunity, you know. <_< In some ways droid book is contiunity too, and what is states is canon. If you don't remember, this same droid book set whole Goto vs. Remote thing among with Exile's gender. Unless you say Goto vs. Remote thing as it is droid book is not canon, you have no means to say that Exile being LSF is canon.
There is not YET any non-kotor Exile/Revan stories, however, when/if there'll be, they are going to use LSM & LSF, that's why canonical characters are stated quite early (well, in Exile's case, it took several years). However, I believe that'll we see atleast Revan in Kotor comics (in his robes & mask naturally), and characters are surely going to call him/her as HIM.
Canonized charaters don't lower value of your own characters.
Whatever could've, should've and would've happened didn't happen, plus it would have gone against established lore i.e that Palpatine was the first Sith to topple the Republic completely.
Kotor 2 soughts things out, so there is no problem with using DS Revan for continuity. And there isn't any "canon" unless it's used and established in a story. The stories are what bring these characters to life, without one everything stated about the characters is redundancy. It's called going ahead of "canon". It's not "canon" unless it counts. Without continuity nothing counts.
ADDED: And why coninue this argument? Nothing has been established outside of a few pronouns thrown around in Source Books and Droide Guide Books, with no continuity present. Once an established story is written or created based on these, undefined characters then we'll have something to really argue about. As of now, Kotor has established how these characters are perceived, and that's undefined.
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Could you imagine making a movie of the Revan/Malak fight at the Star Forge without scrapping the whole draining Jedi concept? For a Star Wars boss fight I thought it wasn't very well conceived. Who would stop in the middle of an intense life and death saber fight to recover some health from half dead Jedi without getting torn to ribbons?
It was enormously cheezy and obvious that Bioware didn't take the cinematic aesthetic into account when they decided to stick with this concept. Kreia's three lightsaber were also a bit poorly done, but I think that had to do with the turn based system. A realtime system would have made them an incredible defensive wall and a powerful offensive technique.
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I just can't accept that, when there isn't any continuity at present and when all the playthroughs can be options to be used for continuity.
Well duh!
This is the paradox that I pointed out. There can't be multiple Revan's in SW history, or Exile's! Especially in Revan's case ending must be LS, as in DS Revan crushed the Republic, and we know that Republic was not crushed until movie era. I use word crushed, as Revan was canonized before K2. K2 changed this however, as both "versions" of Revan left to unknown regions.
Canonical characters are only for contiunity. You may still play all Kotors as you want
DS Revan never "crushed" the Republic. He "crushed" a single Republic fleet that assualted the Star Forge, the Republic had more fleets in the core worlds. Bastila mentions that their path to the core planets is open, but the war with the Republic would be far from over, even after that.
"Canonizing" is done for continuity (I know) but there hasn't been any continuity, so why the insistence on "canonizing"? Let whatever author who would like to use these characters, determine what is "canon". Throwing a "he" or "she" in a source book or droid guide book, doesn't mean anything in the end, without the continuity.
Ofcourse it doesn't affect how I choose to play Kotor (thank the heavens for that (w00t) ).
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Galactic Civilization 2
Eternal Darkness
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Again, the only reason I'm debating this is because of the idea that "canonizing" is somehow supposed to make the alternative playthoughs irrelevant. I just can't accept that, when there isn't any continuity at present and when all the playthroughs can be options to be used for continuity.
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I wasn't on a messaage board when they made those decisions on Revan and Jaden. I've always been of the opinion that "canonizing" a character without offering any continuity, is redundancy, considering that "canonizing" is used for the sole purpose of future continuity for that particular undefined character.
The "canonizing" of Revan and Jaden again don't change anything unless they've made stories based on these "canon" versions. And even then an author can override these "canonized" characters if they choose to and LA accepts, which is something that isn't out of the realm of possibility.
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Frankly, concept of wound in the force is as incredible as it is unbelievable. Trouble is when things take a turn towards abstractions, description of story tends to become unimaginably logic-defiant to some extent. And also, whether 'wound' and 'hole' meant slightly different things or perhaps things which are almost the same is quite vague in a few ways.
Well to be fair the statement: "anything is possible with the force," applies here. I think the Exile has a conection to the force, he just seemingly turned his mind away from the force. Such that the threads - in his mind - that made him aware of the force, were cut off.
The concept relies on the idea that the force is an intangible spiritual entity and cannot be measured through physical means (midichlorians). But I think considering the strength of Nihilus and others, I thought Obsidian did well in potraying their powers as subtle forces.
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G0-T0 had one of the most interesting back stories of any Kotor NPC. I know people don't like him (I understand this becuse of how he forces himself into your party) but once you unlock his back story he feels more like a servant and follower, as opposed to an employer wanabee.
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Revan is having mask because his appereance has not been decided, propably won't ever be.
If you haven't noticed it that if you say in K2 in that conversation with Atton "I don't care about Revan" game then sets Revan to be the canonical one, LSM.
So yes, it is set.
And how that "heroine" isn't contiunity? <_<
That seems to be the problem here. You ignore the Droid book totally
It's not continuity. How has that added to the Kotor 2 plot or the character development or anything remotely relevant to what we know from Kotor 2? It hasn't, hence the reason why the allocation of a "canon" Exile off a single droid guide book reference, is redundant.
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Well I'm here to tell you that nothing has been set in stone. In shadow and light Revan is depicted with a mask, once again deliberatelty potrayed in an androgenous fashion. The Exile is referred to as a "heroine" in a droid guide book, unless you want to argue that this is some kind of continuity, then nothing is as yet set in stone.
No continuity = "canon" redundancy. Hence the reason why the jury is still out on both Revan and the Exile.
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Oh, yeah...Forgot about the whole permission thing. Of course that would be the only thing standing in the way of rewriting canon.
And when LA last time rewrited canon...
" Especially LA doesn't like DS "versions", so it is damn unlikely (read impossible), that we'll ever see anything but lightside characters as canonical versions.
edit: Heck, CANON CHARACTERS ARE BECAUSE OF THE ****ING CONTIUNITY! AND YES, NO OTHER VERSIONS OF THEIR CHARACTERS OR STORYPATHS EXISTS IN C-CANON (in G-canon Kotors doesn't exist at all). There isn't multiple Revans or multiple Exiles running around like halfmad star wars fans. For example, canonically Revan saves the renegade sith students in k1. However, if all versions were true, (s)he would save them AND kill then at the same time. You see the contiunity error here?
Damn it <_<
You are looking at the sitaution way too literally. You have to look at the stories having significance to continuity either way. Any of the story archs at this stage could be used in continuity, as there hasn't been any continuity for Revan and the Exile (thus far) beyond Kotor 2.
So the jury is still out. A single defined character could be used in an official magazine or guide book but if it lacks a continuity story to go along with the reference, its use doesn't change anything about the character. LA can choose to call it "canon", but as far as I'm concerned, without a continuity story, "canonizing" doesn't change anything about what the Kotor games have established.
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Also the Kyle Katarn example doesn't change much. The ds playthrough could have been used as well. Their isn't any natural order here that determines what is or isn't "canon", it's merely LA's choice. Besides, Katarn has a single defined identity whether or not he fell to the dark side can be easily determined by a single choice.
The Exile and Revan have several possible appearances, have sexually androgenous names, each have four playthrough options (rather than 2). It's just a whole different situation. In one case there is very little to disagree over as the character model and identity are singular with 2 varied alignments, the second case has 2 characters who in their design were meant to be undefined.
And as someone above said, it's the authors who make these choices, all LA does is aprrove the story, I don't think LA can/should refuse to licence a story or book simply because the author chose to use one gender or alignment over another for their character/s. So I believe that authors can override previously "canonized" versions of intially undefined characters.
Again it doesn't matter to me whether or not they say this version of the Exile or Revan is "canon", as long as it is not assumed that the other options and alignments didn't "happen" or don't count.
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Most powerful Sith in KOTOR series (spoilers???)
in Star Wars: General Discussion
Posted · Edited by Darth Blivion
He cares about Visas the way a planet-eating Sith Lord is expected to. When you ask Kreia about why he spared Visas, she says something about it being the last humane thing Nihilus was prepared to do. Basically, Visas represents Nihilus' last shred of humanity.