Guard Dog

I must admit, the moment Aurora team made this announcement, all the bitterness about this expensive and inferior product LA foisted on us just melted away. The one thing I learned with NWN was there was very little a Dev can do that talented modders cannot.

Not long to wait I think. And you have the right of it, this poorly excecuted, unfinished halfgame is not worthy of you paying full dollar value.

There was a few snippets of unused dialouge that led to believe a Canderous romance was under consideration in KOTOR I. So little that I think it was cut early on. A lot of Juhani's dialouge was cut that made her sexuality and the following romance with a female PC a little less subtle. There is a mod to restore it that works pretty well. Not a big add, and most is without VO but it is interesting.

Jolee Bindo, no doubt about it. I usually have a really good point and get to in a roundabout long winded way. Plus I think my life has bee interesting.

Not true at all. In fact, I'd say the so-called RPG crowd has been more vocal in its defense of the game than most. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, Obsidian has been defended, and not for nothing. KOTOR 2 is not without good parts, even as it is. Many gamers have spoken up in defense of what is good about it. But, taken on the whole the game is just poor, more because of what is not included than what is. By a rough margin of 3 to 1 posters have agreed with this sentiment. 3 more months of dev time and Muhakda would have never put up this post.

That would be time well spent, and they can be had really cheap now.

Yep. And in #4 I agreed with you. My "idiotic" rant as you so kindly put it was answering someone else who took exception to what I said. I'm not here to flame or denigrate anyone.

I wasn't talking to you anyway

I apologize; I didn't mean to sound so confrontational. It's just that so many older gamers blame younger ones for the trend of "dumbing down" games. It's kind of like that chauvinistic stuff some gamers pull on women, like they don't know enough to play well. (I'm sorry, I've just encountered both in the past.) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've read similar statements in these very forums. And, I'll say what you didn't it is a pile of garbage to even suggest it. 'Younger" players do not dumb down games any more than "older" ones have the reverse effect. I'd be a little put off by the suggestion too. Not where I was going. Devlopers target age groups, true enough but KOTOR 2 was meant for a broad appeal. Here is a great example of what i'm trying to get at. Neverwinter Nights has absolutley nothing for the gameplay crowd. Animations, graphic interface, game pace are all pretty poor. But it has a big cowd of rabid RPG fans that love it because it is so moddable, replayable, and totally story driven. The additions of the toolset ensures there will always be new games to play. Thats the different outlooks to KOTOR 2 I was trying to get at. NWN has very few players under 20. Not because it is or isn't dumbed down, just that it takes a different taste to enjoy it.

Wait...I'm not 20 yet, therefore I'm not a real cRPG fan. Nevermind that I've been playing Baldur's Gate, Fallout, et al. since I was 12. Oh my, I've become a conundrum! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was discussing generalities. My statement do not and were not intended to encapsulate every individual player. By an large the numbers prove me right.

I'm with you there. Never was a fan of PnP.

Thank you for proving both of my points.

Don't get me wrong. It was not my intention to bait Xboxers or in any way denigrate those who like this game solely for the game play. If that is what you like then great, it has a lot of good stuff for you. But I have been reading these boards for a while now and by HUGE margins, the RPG crowd was not happy with it and the gameplay crowd are. We are almost like Republicans and Democrats, we look at the same thing two different ways and cannot understand why the other dislikes/likes what we see. And at times there is a lot of acrimony between us. I'm an RPG fan and I made my opinion of this game clear.

It was an incomplete, rushed out game. It had an absolutely brilliant concept that was poorly excecuted. What was done well was done very very well, what was incomplete was a steaming pile of ..... There are many, mainly younger (teenage xbox) players who love this game based solely on the fighting and gameplay. For the most part they clicked through the dialouge and did not notice or care about the inconsistencies of the story. For the real RPG fans (mainly 20-30 something PC) players, this game was a real heartbreaker. So close to real magnificence on the scale of Baldurs Gate and Planescape, but in the end so terribly weak and far from it. And that is soley because it was unfinished.

There is a mod on pcgamemods.com thats puts a simple blue lightsaber on Peragus. I've used it and it does not change anything in the game but it is a little unbalancing. In all likelyhood that is how you saw screenshots of sabres on the Harbinger.

For me to enjoy a replay, the next time through needs to be different. So in every game I pick two companions and travel only with them. Next game it will be two others.

FYI, Bastila's voice actress Jennifer Hale can be heard in Baldur's Gate 2 and TOB as Mazzy Fentan, and Planescape:Torment as Fall from Grace and Deionarra. She has been in a long list of other games of lesser quality and in a lot of animated shows.

Thanks YST, I did not have that. I was thinking of replaying PST too....

Hi all. I am the one who posted the original message in the NWN2 forums that got Brian Lawson so defensive. Allow me to preface this next statement by saying that my main gaming interest is NWN but I do lurk here from time to time. My intention was not to make a hit post on KOTOR2, that was not the forum for it. But I wanted to get the message accross that what they did with KOTOR2, regardless of whose "fault" is was was dead wrong. And I am not just talking about the cut ending. There are a number of sequences in KOTOR2 that were predicated on a past event that was cut, or building to an event that was cut. That makes the story disjointed. Like the G0T0/remote sequnce on Malachor. Or the now undamaged Ebon Hawk flying in from... somewhere to rescue you at the end. You get the idea. As I stated in my post, if you need to make cuts, cut all of a sequence, not just the ending or beginning. If they could not close the game they way the wanted, the whole ending should have been redone, not just cut and pasted with what they had. Regardless of LA's role in what is tantamount to an act of sabatoge on this game, OE could have and should have done much better with the time they had. The message I wanted to get accross was, for NWN2 we expect better from them. If they release another half finshed game, we will not support with our dollars. Don't get me wrong. I want to buy NWN2, I want it to be as good as I think they can make it. The only thing that worries me is that no one at OE will admit even obliquely that KOTOR2 is seriously flawed. If you cannot even acknowledge something is wrong, there is no reason to believe your next effort will be better. For the record, I think with KOTOR2 we are like an unwanted dog abandoned in the woods. We are just starting to realize, OE and LA are not coming back for us. I think for KOTOR2 it is too late. For NWN2 it is not. That was the idea behind my post there.