Guard Dog

That was totally out of line Lucius.

I know this thread is WAY off topic, but doesn't this beat the hell out of discussing what you are wearing, watching, listening to, etc, etc, etc. The threads in the Way Off Topic forum are usually not this good. Thanks to the mods for the latitude here!

Fair enough, but to continue to play devils advocate here, if a woman decides to abort in the last trimester, the fetus is now fully viable and can eat and breathe unassisted in most cases. It is still legal to kill the child via abortion at that point. But if she waits another week or two, gives birth and then throws the baby out a window it becomes murder. What is the difference between the two then? Why does a late term babys life have no value when a post birth babys life does whrn they are in nearly the same state of development. Does that sound like a double standard to you?

I might also make the same argument about an infant. It too is utterly helpless on it's own. When do you think a human life becomes alive? For me, it's the moment brain activity begins which is 4 weeks after conception if I remeber correctly. But you never answered my original question. Outside of religous teachings, does human life have value?

I have to take issue with you here Calax. I posted my thoughts on this issue earlier so you already know I think abortion is wrong but should not be illegal. But you stated that other than the fetus no ones health or welfare is harmed by abortion. Should the fetus not get some consideration? It is by definition alive. Dosen't human life have sanctity irrespective of religous teachings? As Di pointed out, murder was illegal in most all societies even before Moses came down from the mount. If life were worthless, why is murder wrong? Just trying to give you a different angle to think about.

To Calex: So we're screwed either way? To Lucian: I stand corrected To Lare: Thank you for illustrating my point. The biggest problem with the world today is, humans are losing the ability to live and let live. The antireligous zelots are becoming as fanatical as muslim suicide bombers.

Heh, that's 2 hours 58 min past my attention span!

Heck Moth, that IS happening. Just last month a high school football coach in Live Oak FL was fired for leading a prayer on the sideline for an injured player. Someone in the stands took offence at seeing high school students praying at a school function and either was a lawyer or hired a lawyer and went after the principal and the coach. Reading back on this thread you have been called, Bilbe Boy, Fundie, and a few other nasty derrogatory terms by a few posters. When did Christian become a four letter word? What is it about that religion that raises so much ire? I am proud to call myself a Christian and I insult no one and hold malice towards none. Why is it those who do not believe in it, it is simply not enough to not believe themselves. They cannot suffer others to believe it. Case in point, Michael Newdow in San Francisco. It is not enough for him to just be an atheist. He cannot sleep at night knowing school children are acknowldging the existance of God when the say the Pledge of Alligence in the morning. Even Sand, who seems like a pretty reasonable guy gets upset at the very notion of teaching I.D. in school as an alternate theory of the origins of life. No one of any intelligence can deny the process of evolution. And the theory that man and apes may have had a common ancestor has merit. But no evolutionary chain from single cell organisims to higher forms of life has ever been established. That is the basis of the theory of Irreducible Complexity upon which I.D. is based as Sand correctly points out. He says it has been discreditied and is is derided by the scientific community at large as relying on the old "God-of-the-Gaps" idea. But, IMHOP that is simply a straw man argument. The Avida artificial life program at MSU has gone a long way towards proving I.C. and it is not universally rejected. "Mainstream" science reacts violently whenever an idea arises that challenges what it believes to be canon. Clarence Darrow argued that in the Scopes trial in 1924 that laid the way for evolution to be taught in schools to begin with. The point I was coming to before getting sidetracked was that I'm finding more and more hostility to christian beliefs in society and even here on this board. Right now the topic is treated with scorn, but hate usually follows scorn. And after hate comes gunshots.

You got it taks.

Just curious Sand, where did you ever see the Repubs violating the establishment clause? It states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". If you were referring to introducing intelligent design in text books it was to be taught in addition to evolution. Not to the exclusion. And I just searched www.house.gov using the terms "intelligent design". There are no and have been no bills about it. Is there another one I missed?

Those are my views but many fall right in line with the party platform. A political party really is just a collection of people who have similar beliefs. The democrat party is not socialist but there are socialists in the party because they find common ground with the party philosophy. Ditto with the Christian Right and the Republicans. Not every LP member agrees with me on every isse but we ALL agree in a strict and literal interprtation of the framers intent and letter when it comes to the role of the US government is American society and the world. Check it out for yourself here: www.lp.org

I am a card carrying, registered voting member of the US Libertarian party. I even ran for a seat in the Florida State House in 1996 when I got out of the military (don't ask how that went!). We are big believers in the 10th Amendment. The words Gay, Abortion, or Marriage do not appear in the US Constitution, therefore should never be uttered by any US government official. That is purely a State issue. If South Dakota wants to ban abortion, that is their business. If California votes to allow gay marriage, good for them. But don't be mad if Tennessee does not. You get the picture. Personally I believe in a totally free society. My religous convictions tell me abortion is wrong and I would never condone anyone having one. At the same time, it is not my place to tell anyone they can or cannot. Nor is it anyone elses. If you want to smoke dope, that should be your business and not a legal problem. At the same time, if the company you work for fires you for it, that is their business. You knew they administered drug tests when you lit up. A Libertarian society would be a free one but not an easy one. No welfare. Yep, you can work or not as you please but do not expect the government to hand you a check to stay home. If you will not work you must live on the charity of others. At the same time, no Federal income tax. That is right. The US constitution provides ample means for the Federal Governement to fund itself without taxing it's citizens. As to state taxes. That will depend on what programs the voters want in their states. If California wants socialisim, California can fund it. Don't ask Florida for help. US forgien policy would be simple. All US troops in non treatied forgien commitments (i.e. not NATO or UN) would be redeployed to the US. Also, all US forgien aid to any non western hemisphere country would come to a screeching halt. Tsunamis, floods, earthquake? We'll look after our own and ask the rest of the world to do the same. If another country seeks war with the United States, we would give it to them with all of the power at our command, and when it is over we would leave. No more Marshall plans, no more nation building. The military is no good at it anyway. I saw that first hand in 1992-93. So that is Libertarianism. Anyone interested? I am.

Heh! No actually I am far more worried about State rights vs Federal rigths (Kelo v New London ring a bell). Individual freedoms, like firearm ownership for example. Crippling business growth with punative taxation. Trying to assault the First amendment with their "Fairness Doctrine". And the biggest American tradition of all, smaller governement. Not that the Repubs are any better. One is growing the government slowly, one wants to do it quickly. Like I said eariler, it's the lesser of two evils. As for Dem socialisim, last time they were in power they tired to nationalize 1/7th of the US economy. QED! What we need is a libertarian government that will restore the Monroe doctrine to US forigen policy. And an immediate cessetion of ALL US aid to any non-western hemisphere country. So vote for me in 2008! :D

Looks like Dems won the House and may yet get the Senate. It's going to be a long two years. But after two years of their unique blend of American socialisim, massive tax increases, and nasty condescending attitude towards all things traditionally American, the voters will show them the door in 2008. Just like in 1996.

So lets see, this year I got to choose between a Republican Party who could not lead a drunk to a bar, or a band of raving communists who took over the Democratic Party in 2000. Ugh! I voted republican top to bottom but felt like I needed to take a shower afterwards. Once again choosing the lesser of two evils.

I wonder, is it really fair to compare NWN2 to NWN as it is today? I mean, NWN 1.69 is a hell of a long way removed from 1.0. For example, after 5 years we have unlockable cameras, ridable horses, CEP, etc, etc, etc, etc. All of which were done by modders or Bioware keeping up with modders. If there are aspects about the game you don't like, just wait a bit. Bugs? They'll be fixed. Heck the game has aready had a patch so we are off to a great start. With the exceptions of new animations (going to be hard to get around that one) there will be haks and overrides aplenty within the coming weeks. Don't sweat the reviews of beta versions, or early concerns about charachter gen. Just buy the game. Like I told someone else once, you can blow $50 US on three pitchers of beer and an order of hot wings and not get half as much enjoyment out of it.

Don't know what it is Kaftan, but take heart, you ain't it!

For a non fiction book to get lost in, "Winterdance" by Gary Paulsen would be fun. For fiction, hands down "A Salty Piece of Land". Tully Mars is a literary figure I can definitely identify with!

Looks better, runs worse. What does it tell you when a game gets patched 8 days after release. Wait a while for a few patches, or modders to fix this one. Plus the way it's going it might be in the bargin bin in no time.

FYI all. Do NOT buy this game. It is a bug loaded NIGHTMARE. Crashes to desktop frequently, switches to windowed mode spontaneously, etc. And looking at their forums, I am far from the only one. Forewarned is forearmed.

LA is a problem because their post-release support is nil. They throw games over the fence and never mind whatever bugs they may have. The average number of patches on Atari games is 3. On LA it'a .97.

Why the heck would a PC gamer be pissed at a console port of a PC only game? Or vice versa? Who the heck cares anyway? Of all the things in the world to be pissed about that has got to be near the bottom of the list. There are games you can play and some you can't. If porting NWN2 to console makes the brand name more succesful then I'm all for it. So long one version does not get "dumbed down" to accomedate the other. Oblivion anyone?

Nuts to KOTOR 3. No matter who makes it LucasArts will still be involved and the ARE the problem. More than anything else I'd like to see them run with NWN2. NWN was the gift that kept on giving for 5 years now. With a few expansions, premium content and a little TLC, there is no reason NWN2 can't keep it going another 4 or 5.

GalCiv 2 is fair at best. The campaign gameplay is well done but the interface leaves a lot to be desired. The lack tactical combat is a huge problem with that game.