Great 6-Person Party: final run analysis and thoughts

[mr_raider]

Yeah o fought the Hunters naked. So that solves the cash issue. Still the problem of your party being almost two levels back.

 

When I get to gilded vale, even if I skip all the rights in the woods, I'm still close to level 3. Just walking past the hanging corpses triggers a huge xp award.

[Zoso der Goldene]

Yeah o fought the Hunters naked. So that solves the cash issue. Still the problem of your party being almost two levels back.

 

When I get to gilded vale, even if I skip all the rights in the woods, I'm still close to level 3. Just walking past the hanging corpses triggers a huge xp award.

The xp gap becomes less and less of a level as you level up.

It is a disadvantage, of course, but at level 16 it's gone.

And with a full party it's not that much an issue.

[StormOwnz]

So what was the playthrough like before you hit lvl 9?

[butter_duck]

Great guide. I have some questions though. What's the reason for the Bleakwalker Paladin? Is it really better than a Shieldbearer Paladin for tanking, or is it just for style? Why a flail on a character with 16 PER? And is a great sword on back line Priest really good?

[heldred]

Great guide. I have some questions though. What's the reason for the Bleakwalker Paladin? Is it really better than a Shieldbearer Paladin for tanking, or is it just for style? Why a flail on a character with 16 PER? And is a great sword on back line Priest really good?

 

Glad the guide was helpful.

 

I always liked the concept of a Bleakwalker, which helped justify some of my decisions in game (things I did solely to gain power and were clearly immoral).  I also like Rakhan and Black Path abilities.  I don't really see a clear "winner" in the paladin sub-classes, they are all competent and share the abilities that really matter.

 

On POTD, I tend to focus on hitting accurately.  The high PER on my Paladin and Chanter is less about the weapon and more about abilities.  Later on, with Chanter (Dragon Thrashed) and Paladin (Immolation), I like hitting everything more efficiently (not sure of exact mechanics, but assume it isn't auto-hit). 

 

Hope that helps.

[heldred]

So what was the playthrough like before you hit lvl 9?

Enjoyable overall.  For me, the use of shields made most encounters less of an emergency and easier to manage.    Combined with the casters' CC and debuffs, as well as the passive/active healing, most battles were fun with a full team.  When I had only 2-3 party members, I would need to rest a bit more, but nothing excessive.  

[heldred]

Did you create your 5 adventurers right off the bat at gilded vale? That pretty much depleted all your cash. Plus your party starts at level 1 with 0xp which keeps it almost 2500xp behind you.

 

I add as many party members as I can in Gilded Vale.  I'm usually not concerned with being poor, since I'd rather have the additional party members (compared to buying weapons/armor).  I usually have 4-5 people in my party after my first night of sleep in the Gilded Vale, which could be higher (6) if you aren't concerned about your reputation in the Gilded Vale... On my last run, I had 4 and added 2 more more after I leveled again. 

 

I tend to make sure I add adventurers right after I level, to keep the XP-gap small.  Later on, the XP-gap becomes less noticeable at higher levels.  

[Vaneglorious]

@ heldred
Ever thought about running 3 paladins instead? Or maybe 2 palas 1 chanter for frontline. Not sure how much the DR aura helps, or how much the speed aura does in this case, just something I thought about. 3 Sacred Immolations is pretty dope heal/dps .

Edited May 5, 2018 by Vaneglorious

[StormOwnz]

 

So what was the playthrough like before you hit lvl 9?

Enjoyable overall.  For me, the use of shields made most encounters less of an emergency and easier to manage.    Combined with the casters' CC and debuffs, as well as the passive/active healing, most battles were fun with a full team.  When I had only 2-3 party members, I would need to rest a bit more, but nothing excessive.  

 

 

I just suck. My MC(druid) died 22 times at lvl 6 while everyone else is around 5 or 10.

[mr_raider]

 

 

So what was the playthrough like before you hit lvl 9?

Enjoyable overall.  For me, the use of shields made most encounters less of an emergency and easier to manage.    Combined with the casters' CC and debuffs, as well as the passive/active healing, most battles were fun with a full team.  When I had only 2-3 party members, I would need to rest a bit more, but nothing excessive.  

 

 

I just suck. My MC(druid) died 22 times at lvl 6 while everyone else is around 5 or 10.

 

I made the wizard the MC since it requires the most micromanagement. After level 5, the druid is just shapeshift, throw on returning storm, and wade in.

[rmv17491]

Need some build for dw stunlock rogue on potd in poe1

[StormOwnz]

@heldred So what did you do with your wizard on trash fights? I hate wasting spells but having him auto attack is just blahh

[katie]

FYI, some of the character builds don't have their class listed - like 3 of them

[heldred]

@heldred So what did you do with your wizard on trash fights? I hate wasting spells but having him auto attack is just blahh

For low levels, he was on support duty with weapon/shield and used grimoire slam on grouped enemies.

 

Once spell mastery is achieved, you have an extra spell or two to throw each encounter (note: you can give times/rest items to wiz as well to offset a lack of abilities in the early stages of the game).  Once you have all four levels of mastery, you are extremely productive on all trash fights (especially with shadow flame). 

 

Overall, the wiz uses 1-2 mastery spells on trash mobs (sometimes none, when lazy), but on a boss fight it literally becomes the WIZ Show. 

 

Hope this helps!

[heldred]

FYI, some of the character builds don't have their class listed - like 3 of them

Good catch, fixed!  Thanks!

[Regenerated]

 

 

ATTS: MIG 19, CON 10, DEX 17, PER 17, INT 19, RES 10

 

 

What are basic stats?

 

 

Same question.

[Rooksx]

Note that all your melee characters dump Dex. Is that because Dex has a relatively small effect on melee DPS, or more that melee DPS doesn't matter too much?

[mr_raider]

Note that all your melee characters dump Dex. Is that because Dex has a relatively small effect on melee DPS, or more that melee DPS doesn't matter too much?

 

The way I see it, he doesn't care about melee DPS. The damage is done with abilities. When necessary to fight melee, buffs make up the difference.

[eisenefaust]

Hi Heldred,  Thanks for making this very informative post. I'm fairly new to Pillars and I found this very helpful.

I'm a little confused about a couple of things.

• The attributes are hard for me to nail down by what you have listed for starting attributes. Do they not count Culture but do count racial modifiers? Seems to be the case for most but Barbarian stats still seems off to me, I can only get 18, 5, 5, 16, 17, 16 (Old Vailia brings Int to 18). On the all the characters the ending attributes seem to be a bit off even with Per +3 from Towers in Caed Nua. I'm probably missing something here. e.g. paladin has Per 16 (base) + 3 (shawl) + 3 (towers) = 22 not 23, Int 16 (base) + 3 (Ryona's Breastplate) = 19 not 21, Res 13 (base) + 1 (Aedyr) + 1 (steadfast) + 3 (Company Captain's Cap) = 18 not 15. Barbarian has Con 5 (base) + 3 (Marked Amulet = 8 not 7. etc. Were you eating an Int food (Casità Casserole) perhaps?
• The chanter - in the game I get to choose phrases for chanting, but you didn't list any in that section. Will I learn all of them by the time I'm max level? All I see are Invocations listed as chants.
• Little Savior - Where do you get the second one from (Priest and Wizard both have it)? On the wiki I only see that you can get it once unless you can loot the adra's dragon hoard more than once or it is available in another area not listed there.
• For quite a few abilities and talents, I think it they are getting granted by items (e.g. Looped Rope is what grants the chanter Clarity, White Crest Armor grants Dancing Bolts and Overwhelming Wave). Some are available on the class and also granted by the items( e.g. Savage Defiance is granted by the upgraded Dragon's Maw Shield). This makes it confusing to me as well. Do you like these choices enough to take them early and then respec out of them when you get the item upgraded?
• What did you spend your extra skill points on for the Wizard? I imagine you went rest into Athletics?

What is the character level up path? I thought it was ordered in preference from left to right but now I'm not so sure. since skills wouldn't make sense like that I think. For skills, I imagine you put one point into Athletics across the board, then focused the priest on Mechanics and everyone else to first breakpoint of Survival for them? After that on to Atheltics with rest going to Lore and Stealth later? What are the things you were really looking for while leveling this group up?

 

Thanks for such great info! I hope my questions aren't too naive.

Edited May 17, 2018 by eisenefaust

[eisenefaust]

I just looked again and I was missing the enchants you listed on the builds. That explains the stat differences I was seeing.

For the Spells I was missing on the Wizard I just got them from grimoires: Ninagauth's Black Pages, Llengrath's Physical Shields, The Ironclasped, and Grimoire of a Dozens Wizard seemed to cover most of the awkward spell choices for me to get the same load out as you did.

I've also found that the duplicate abilities on items are just good to have since it means you can use it more often too. Is that what you did?

 

I'm still curious about how you got two Little Saviors so you could share between your Priest and your Wizard. Any other shields you would recommend if I can't get a second one?

What phrases did you choose for your chanter? I've been using Dragon Thrashed and Come, Come. Were there better combinations you used while leveling up and at max level?

[Rooksx]

The Helwax Mold (reward for one of the Stronghold adventures) can be used to clone any item. That's how he would have got two Little Saviors.

[eisenefaust]

The Helwax Mold (reward for one of the Stronghold adventures) can be used to clone any item. That's how he would have got two Little Saviors.

Thanks so much! I didn't know about the Mold. That's a pretty cool item!

[LoutishXY]

Hi Heldred,  Thanks for making this very informative post. I'm fairly new to Pillars and I found this very helpful.

I'm a little confused about a couple of things.

• The attributes are hard for me to nail down by what you have listed for starting attributes. Do they not count Culture but do count racial modifiers? Seems to be the case for most but Barbarian stats still seems off to me, I can only get 18, 5, 5, 16, 17, 16 (Old Vailia brings Int to 18). On the all the characters the ending attributes seem to be a bit off even with Per +3 from Towers in Caed Nua. I'm probably missing something here. e.g. paladin has Per 16 (base) + 3 (shawl) + 3 (towers) = 22 not 23, Int 16 (base) + 3 (Ryona's Breastplate) = 19 not 21, Res 13 (base) + 1 (Aedyr) + 1 (steadfast) + 3 (Company Captain's Cap) = 18 not 15. Barbarian has Con 5 (base) + 3 (Marked Amulet = 8 not 7. etc. Were you eating an Int food (Casità Casserole) perhaps?
• The chanter - in the game I get to choose phrases for chanting, but you didn't list any in that section. Will I learn all of them by the time I'm max level? All I see are Invocations listed as chants.
• Little Savior - Where do you get the second one from (Priest and Wizard both have it)? On the wiki I only see that you can get it once unless you can loot the adra's dragon hoard more than once or it is available in another area not listed there.
• For quite a few abilities and talents, I think it they are getting granted by items (e.g. Looped Rope is what grants the chanter Clarity, White Crest Armor grants Dancing Bolts and Overwhelming Wave). Some are available on the class and also granted by the items( e.g. Savage Defiance is granted by the upgraded Dragon's Maw Shield). This makes it confusing to me as well. Do you like these choices enough to take them early and then respec out of them when you get the item upgraded?
• What did you spend your extra skill points on for the Wizard? I imagine you went rest into Athletics?

What is the character level up path? I thought it was ordered in preference from left to right but now I'm not so sure. since skills wouldn't make sense like that I think. For skills, I imagine you put one point into Athletics across the board, then focused the priest on Mechanics and everyone else to first breakpoint of Survival for them? After that on to Atheltics with rest going to Lore and Stealth later? What are the things you were really looking for while leveling this group up?

 

Thanks for such great info! I hope my questions aren't too naive.

I am wondering about bullet point four as well..

Edited May 20, 2018 by LoutishXY

[heldred]

Note that all your melee characters dump Dex. Is that because Dex has a relatively small effect on melee DPS, or more that melee DPS doesn't matter too much?

Yes, these melee builds intentionally dump DEX, because they were created to endure damage and utilize passives/pulse abilities (Chanter = Dragon Thrashed, Paladin = Sacred Immolation, etc.).  The "normal" melee attacks should be viewed as an added benefit, while the primary damage comes from the passive abilities/pulse-attacks.

[heldred]

Hi Heldred,  Thanks for making this very informative post. I'm fairly new to Pillars and I found this very helpful.

I'm a little confused about a couple of things.

• The attributes are hard for me to nail down by what you have listed for starting attributes. Do they not count Culture but do count racial modifiers? Seems to be the case for most but Barbarian stats still seems off to me, I can only get 18, 5, 5, 16, 17, 16 (Old Vailia brings Int to 18). On the all the characters the ending attributes seem to be a bit off even with Per +3 from Towers in Caed Nua. I'm probably missing something here. e.g. paladin has Per 16 (base) + 3 (shawl) + 3 (towers) = 22 not 23, Int 16 (base) + 3 (Ryona's Breastplate) = 19 not 21, Res 13 (base) + 1 (Aedyr) + 1 (steadfast) + 3 (Company Captain's Cap) = 18 not 15. Barbarian has Con 5 (base) + 3 (Marked Amulet = 8 not 7. etc. Were you eating an Int food (Casità Casserole) perhaps?
• The chanter - in the game I get to choose phrases for chanting, but you didn't list any in that section. Will I learn all of them by the time I'm max level? All I see are Invocations listed as chants.
• Little Savior - Where do you get the second one from (Priest and Wizard both have it)? On the wiki I only see that you can get it once unless you can loot the adra's dragon hoard more than once or it is available in another area not listed there.
• For quite a few abilities and talents, I think it they are getting granted by items (e.g. Looped Rope is what grants the chanter Clarity, White Crest Armor grants Dancing Bolts and Overwhelming Wave). Some are available on the class and also granted by the items( e.g. Savage Defiance is granted by the upgraded Dragon's Maw Shield). This makes it confusing to me as well. Do you like these choices enough to take them early and then respec out of them when you get the item upgraded?
• What did you spend your extra skill points on for the Wizard? I imagine you went rest into Athletics?

What is the character level up path? I thought it was ordered in preference from left to right but now I'm not so sure. since skills wouldn't make sense like that I think. For skills, I imagine you put one point into Athletics across the board, then focused the priest on Mechanics and everyone else to first breakpoint of Survival for them? After that on to Atheltics with rest going to Lore and Stealth later? What are the things you were really looking for while leveling this group up?

 

Thanks for such great info! I hope my questions aren't too naive.

 

1) I honestly don't remember, but you don't need to be exact with the stats.  The main thought on the Barb build was to dump DEX/CON (you don't even need to go all the way down to 5) and ensure you have a high starting MIG (17-18), combined with a good INT, PER, RES (14-16).

 

2) Early on, I didn't rely on the Chanter to do much more than to hum Ancient Memory and to be a roadblock for enemies (keep mobs busy).  You really don't care too much about the other chants (pick anything you like).  Later on, you "must" insert Dragon Thrashed (lvl 9) and just play that track over and over and over...  This is a low-maintenance build, which is nice, because the three primary casters (Priest, Wiz, and Druid) will keep you busy during your boss or more difficult fights.   Regarding invocations, you really don't cast too many, but I listed my favorites under chants (will correct to invocations)

 

3) Hellwax Mold enables you to clone one item...  Little Savior is a great option.

 

4) I didn't respec if there was redundancy on some skills, I just kept it as back-up.  If you wanted to optimize further, you could observe your play-style and see if there is any need for the additional ability(ies).

 

5) If there was anything left over on the Wiz, Athletics would be the place to put the points.