So, did rogues get anything actually cool or are they just backstab monkeys?

[Whipstitch]

Personally, the only thing I really liked about Rogues in POE1 was deathblows. Its compatibility with non-weapon damage gave the class a much needed injection of versatility and I really enjoyed the idea that Rogues were at least as good as anyone at using scrolls, spellbinds and otherwise "cheating" their way to victory instead of just being flank monkeys. Did they build upon any of that at all or are the devs still fronting like the ability to attack from behind good is an adequate basis for an entire class? Because if they haven't I'm quite confident that rogues are going to be at the bottom of the class totem pole again because conceptually I don't think they did a good job of identifying niches for them to occupy in POE1.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Whipstitch

[Heijoushin]

Uh... Well... um... they're still backstab monkeys I guess. But now we have an Assassin, which is like a Super Backstab Monkey

I still enjoy them more than fighters though. They force you to think about placement, escape strategics, and status effects.

[Boeroer]

But because of the additive nature of damage bonuses rogues in PoE kind of stink in the late game. Deathblows for example only adds 100% base damage which in case of a dagger is +11 damage. Wow... thank the gods it works with spells and stuff which has high base damage. They simply lack one or two really good high level abilities in PoE. Look at fighter and how Charge makes that somewhat boring class totally awesome at lvl 13.

 

Since we can't see the high level abilities in Deadfire yet I can't say anything about late game, but until lvl 9 they still are quite similar to PoE. I can't even say if Deathblows still works with spells etc.

What does work: Assassinate (highly increased damage, penetration and crit range) works with spells from stealth (no range restrictions like with Backstab) and is pretty powerful.

 

Streetfighter and Trickster subclass change the whole behaviour a bit, but not substantially (yet).

Edited February 10, 2018 by Boeroer

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Sneak attack now applies to any affliction but on their own Rogues haven't changed much conceptually. Subclasses either add more to attacking from stealth or invisibility, bonuses from being flanked or hurt, or some Illusion spells. No AoE damage, same disabling attacks, and one new active ability is what Rogues have up to power level 5. You should still be able to use scrolls and spellbind, in addition to multiclassing.

[Whipstitch]

Sneak attack now applies to any affliction but on their own Rogues haven't changed much conceptually. Subclasses either add more to attacking from stealth or invisibility, bonuses from being flanked or hurt, or some Illusion spells. No AoE damage, same disabling attacks, and one new active ability is what Rogues have up to power level 5. You should still be able to use scrolls and spellbind, in addition to multiclassing.

 

Illusions sound cool but the rest sounds pretty vanilla given my preferred rogue builds in POE skipped adding strikes and just used wounding shot and missile scrolls instead. I tried to cobble those guys into something cool, I really did, but like I said, the only thing that ever felt fun was grabbing Deathblows and pretending I had ranks in Use Magic Device. 

Edited February 10, 2018 by Whipstitch

[Elric Galad]

If Feign Death was cancellable and if Shadow Step provided Invisible instead of some random negligible melee buff, Rogue would have had all that they needed.

 

It's a pity that Obsidian didn't have a final look at the PoE1 Rogue before going PoE2

 

I suppose that Rogue will at least be good Multiclass for PoE2 as sneak attack has always been very good for low level.

[SaruNi]

If Feign Death was cancellable and if Shadow Step provided Invisible instead of some random negligible melee buff, Rogue would have had all that they needed.

 

It's a pity that Obsidian didn't have a final look at the PoE1 Rogue before going PoE2

 

I suppose that Rogue will at least be good Multiclass for PoE2 as sneak attack has always been very good for low level.

 

You know they added Smoke Veil (2 guile, invisible for base 5 seconds) right? Even multi-class (in the current beta) can have two uses of that per encounter. And Shadowing Beyond (3 guile) can also be used multiple times (by single-class in the beta). 

 

There are potions of Invisibility too, and probably items which grant it. 

 

Tremendous improvements over PoE 1 rogue in these respects.

 

Riposte build seems much better too. Goes well with Trickster's multiple casts of Mirrored Image (though Escape grants +50 deflection for a few seconds and they don't stack).

[Elric Galad]

Nice !

 

But if they understood this, would it have been that hard to tweak just a little more Goo' Old PoE1 ?

 

That is not that bad, given the number of application Deathblows have...