a simple heuristic to compare the relative value of ressources

[Boeroer]

Yeah ok, we can agree on that. I'm talking mainly about the combat system of Deadfire here (because most things in Deadfire that are non combat-related I like), so I didn't differenciate properly.

[curryinahurry]

Thank you to the OP for the analysis; I haven't had much time to play the beta, but it seems my impressions line up with the analysis and what others are saying in this thread.

 

Let me ask a corollary question to those reading and commenting on this thread that may have been asked already in some form:

 

If we allow for greater granularity in the system by creating higher values for armor/ deflection, penetration etc.; does it make sense to  go to a totally percentile system? One where all numbers denote a 1% change in determination?

 

BTW, I am asking this question regardless of whether we stay with the POE 2 system or go back to POE1 (which is unlikely)

Edited January 9, 2018 by curryinahurry

[Erik-Dirk]

Part of the problem is also that all weapon sets are expected to have a very similar DPS and only slight difference in AP, also enemies generally wont adjust attacks based on your armor:

Light Weapons        Very High DPS       Very Low AP
Medium Weapons   Medium DPS          Medium AP

Heavy Weapons        Low DPS                Very High AP

 

 

If you deal 2x damage with Light Weapons vs Heavy Weapons then under penetration deals 60% damage rather than 30%

This also allows for greater flexibility of builds

• We could go all DPS assuming well never penetrate
• Constitution could have value for light weapon light armor characters (Some heal 50% health rather than 50hp spells may be required)
• Use Light & Medium weapon sets with class skills to achieve penetration
• Use Medium/Heavy weapons and focus on DPS class skills
• Medium Armour is actually useful as you escape the slaughter of light weapons and high recovery form heavy armor.

I've explained this very badly but what i'm trying to get at is that a shortage of AP/DR has a very drastic impact, if you allow for greater variance in other areas sometimes balance can be achieved.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Erik-Dirk

[deneweth]

I think armor penetration as an idea is over thought out and poorly executed in games.  If your goal is for a weapon to do better vs flat number mitigation then the obvious/easy solution is to do more damage per hit (to keep DPS relatively balanced swing time is increased).

 

Over penetration is a sloppy idea that comes about when people stack more penetration than the target has armor.  This happens because penetration is over powered and gets stacked.  What should happen is that extra penetration is useless.  This makes sense from a RP perspective, since it doesn't really matter how well your sword punctures plate armor if it already goes clear through a wizard and his dress.  It also makes sense in a power game world where using plate armor on your wizard is a gamble that you've gimped his dps to protect from attacks that may not even happen.  By choosing to stack pen you counter heavy armor.  If you also counter no armor then armor pen should just be flat +damage.  This also invalidates the dual wield light fast weapons that has traditionally been the unarmored counter 'wizard killer rogue' archetype.

 

 

I really liked Tyranny too.  I got a good laugh at what people were saying about balance after my playthrough.  I ended up using heavy armor on most of my party only to find out light armor was the 'correct' choice.  I think we're freaking out over balance because there isn't much content to the beta, but some of these issues will hopefully 'disappear' once we see more encounter variety and have full class implementation and items.

Edited January 11, 2018 by deneweth