Can a Ranger stay with leadspitter all game? Over godagh/stormcaller/persistence? I can't choose what I want to use.

[Boeroer]

I personally would nearly always go with the higher ACC.

[Elric Galad]

Blunderbuss is also nice to apply special attack effects.

 

Blunderbuss + Sap is an excellent opening move for example, because you get 6x chances to Stun the target, with high probability of getting a crit.

 

For Ranger, the effect is limited, but at least wounding shot's hobbled will get a crit and Stunning shot is pretty much guaranted.

[Goumindong]

Boeroer,

Is it worth it to enchant Persistance to Exceptional, pending getting the 2 (what the...!?!) dragon's eyes needed for Superb?  She will lose he Damage 3 bonus if one does this.

 

She loses damage bonus, from +45% to +30%, but her accuracy bonus rises from +4 to +8.  With the Wounding Damage-over-Time effect, more shots that connect is a particularly good thing.  Also, the way the Hit calculation works, higher ACC will yield a relatively higher damage scaling out of the possible damage spread, sooo…

 

…how do you think the balance comes out?

 

 

Obviously, when the PC gets 2 Sky Dragon Eyes there is almost nothing that would be a better use than raising Persistance to Superb.  +12 ACC and +45% DAM.

 

Generally depends on your build but i would guess its not worth it. Each point of ACC is optimally worth +1% DMG + .01*(1+DMG bonus-.5)% DMG

 

This is because, optimally, you will move entire spectrum up by one point. So one point of miss becomes a graze which adds (1+dmg bonus-.5) * .01. That is, if your damage bonus is .89 (Vicious Aim, 18 might, Persistance bonus) then going from a miss to a graze adds 1.39% damage linearly. One point of graze becomes a hit which increases your damage by +.5 dmg bonus*.1 One point of hit becomes a crit which increases your damage by +.005. So you would add 2.39% damage for every point of ACC.

 

In this case every point of damage adds 1% * (graze+hit+crit) rate damage. So if your minimum graze rate is at or above 80% 1 point of might (3% damage applied 80% of the time is about 2.39% damage) is worth more than 1 point of perception (1 ACC)

 

If you have enough accuracy to not miss at all then every point of perception is directly equivalent to +1% damage bonus. If you have enough accuracy to not ever graze then every point of perception is directly equivalent to .5% damage bonus. (plus or minus variance modifications... plus or minus secondary crit characteristics)

 

Rangers tend to have very high ACC for a variety of reasons and so my guess is that you will be trading about a 15% damage bonus from dmg modifier for a 4% damage bonus from accuracy. If for some reason you're using swift aim then you might be better off with the accuracy. But even then you're only going to be getting about 8.7% damage bonus equivalent from the +4 accuracy change and you will be losing out on the +15% extra damage increase(assuming a 66% graze rate then that is still worth 10% damage)

 

Modifications come when you consider the ancillary value of critical strikes and hits versus grazes. Critical strikes increase the duration of over time effects. I am not sure how the wounding enchantment works with crits but if it increases the duration like other over time crits do then this may produce a significant increase in DPS. (damage is then increased twice, once from the +dmg as a result of potentially critting and then once from the duration increase of potentially critting)

[Boeroer]

That's only correct if you don't use Merciless Hand and other crit damage modifiers like Dungeon Delver etc.

 

He's using a monk by the way.

 

I forgot that Persistence comes with a graze-to hit conversion. And that Damaging III nowadays comes with +4 ACC. It didn't use to do that some patches ago.

 

In this case I also would stay with Damaging III and only enchant quality if I wanted to make it superb. Especially because it is only your backup weapon for when you meet crush resistant/immune foes.

 

Wounding only takes the dmg roll pre DR and calculates 1/4 of that and applies MIG to that. It doesn't care for crits. Its duration is influenced by INT: the lower the INT the higher the dps. That's because the overall damage is fixed (kind of) and only gets spread thinner per tick with more INT. Shorter duration = less ticks = higher dmg per tick.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Boeroer

[Goumindong]

True. The value of 1 ACC, assuming that you will always at least graze(which is not hard to achieve) is 1%+(additional critical strike modifier)%*. So the max you're going to get with persistence is <1.5%. But even this will have damage be a much more significant portion of the value for the accuracy trade off.

 

*Conversion(hit -> crit and graze -> hit) actually reduces the value of accuracy. Because these are independent checks from the accuracy roll increasing accuracy will decrease the range of outcome rolls at which conversion is applied. However writing out the full formula for a change in 1 ACC is long and full of if statements so its easier to just talk about likely situations.

 

Also i thought the character in question was a ranger. With the talk of wounding shot et al.

[Boeroer]

 

*Conversion(hit -> crit and graze -> hit) actually reduces the value of accuracy. Because these are independent checks from the accuracy roll increasing accuracy will decrease the range of outcome rolls at which conversion is applied. However writing out the full formula for a change in 1 ACC is long and full of if statements so its easier to just talk about likely situations.

 

Also i thought the character in question was a ranger. With the talk of wounding shot et al.

Yes, that's why I steered away from exceptional.

 

I only knew that because of the other threads in which he writes at the moment while he's doing a solo monk playthrough.

He was writing about Wounding (enchantment) by the way, not Wounding Shots. But given that this originally was a thread about rangers it's not far fetched to assume a ranger as character.

[dreamrider]

Ok, I had a couple of days without internet, so I am just catching up on the last bit of that conversation...some of which is a little hard to follow without scratch paper and a calculator. 

(Yeah, I know. I'm on a computer, so I HAVE a calculator.  Still, you get the idea.)

 

My take away from the last several postings is:

Considering that the v3.07 version of the Hunting Bow "Persistance" comes with:

-Wounding (DoT) enchantment, +25% DoT, which does not get any additional boost from Crits;

-Damage III enchantment, which includes +45% Damage AND a +4 ACC boost already (unlike earlier versions of "Persistance");

-20% graze-to-hit conversion enchantment...

 

… and further given that the Damaging III enchantment counts as the one allowed "Quality" enchantment on the weapon ...

 

… It probably does not pay to "up-enchant" the Quality of "Persistance" from Damaging III to Exceptional.

 

The "up-enchant" to Exceptional would increase ACC by +4, and reduce Damage Bonus by 15%.

Previous discussion (Plug in arcane math from above thread here) says that, on a Woods Elf Monk (no Ranger ACC boosts), and with +0.4 Crit multiplier bonus (various sources), the damage boost from the +4 increase in ACC would only translate to somewhere between 8-10% additional damage, as opposed to the +15% Damage from Damage III that would be given up.

 

I figure that the Woods Elf ACC boost would be pretty much a wash, as it would have equal impact on both the Damaging III version and the Exceptional version of the bow.

 

 

Oh, well.  Already did the enchant some days ago, based on the earliest response, before the above detailed discussion.  I'm scarcely displeased with her current performance, and I'm taking her to Superb as soon as I can get another dragon eye, anyway.  I cheesed out of the Alpine dragon confrontation, so pierce vs crush is less of an issue for the moment.

 

But...

… good to know for future.  Stick with Damaging III over Exceptional, for Ranger, Monk, probably all characters.  (Not sure about a Rogue, don't know enough about their powers.)

Edited September 2, 2018 by dreamrider

[Boeroer]

Actually the difference between Exceptional and Damaging III is pretty neglectible. You shouldn't be too disappointed.

 

Wounding does profit from crits and increased crit damage. Not directly though.

 

Wounding works like a lash: 25% of the whole dmg (including crits, MIG bonus and so on) PRE DR will be the wounding damage. This will get affected by MIG. And then it gets spread over some ticks.

 

So doing a crit will also boost your wounding damage (indirectly).