zealotstim Posted November 23, 2017 Posted November 23, 2017 I really enjoy the new spell and ability systems they have created for pillars 2. If you need more casts, just use empower. If not, you have extra. The number of spell casts you get seems balanced pretty well for one's level.
jaydee.2k Posted November 23, 2017 Posted November 23, 2017 (edited) The drop of the vancian casting model including the spellbooks was a really big mistake in my opinion. The system like it was in Pillars 1 was totally fine. Now it feels like WoW, in a bad way... Edited November 23, 2017 by jaydee.2k 2
MortyTheGobbo Posted November 23, 2017 Posted November 23, 2017 I marginally preferred per-rest spells gameplay-wise, especially as I learned to use them more efficiently so I wasn't just saving them all for the Big Boss Battles. My problem with them is that you'd never run into an enemy caster who's saving their spells for the next thing; they're always fighting at full power, which puts some gulf between enemies and players. Personally I think long casting times but stronger spells is a fine way to balance per-encounter spells. I just hope they can get the "stronger spells" part right. This is an oft-overlooked point. In a game like Pillars, where many enemies use the same abilities as the PCs, per-rest spells favour them immensely. Apart from that, I'll add my voice to what everyone else has been saying. Per-rest spells are impossible to balance and completely wreck pacing. It was possible, in Pillars, to have your spellcasters consistently and strongly contribute with their passive and per-encounter abilities. Which, of course, is a problem, because then they contribute closely to the other classes while still sitting on spells that can decide an encounter. I don't know what problems spellcasting has in the beta right now, but per-rest spells belong six feet under. 1
dam Posted November 23, 2017 Posted November 23, 2017 In Pillars 1, playing a caster really did feel like you were playing a badass mage. And while tons of people hated that spells were per-rest, I think per-rest spellcasting was what allowed casters to feel so amazing. When all your spells are per-encounter, your highest level spells feel underwhelming. There's no reason not to unleash your full arsenal of strongest spells every fight. This makes casting powerful spells feel mundane. Imagine if in pillars 1 you casted minor avatar and storm of holy fire every fight... I somewhat agree with your first point, strongly disagree with your second. Nothing stops you from unleashing your strongest spells ? Except, I don't know... friendly fire perchance ? That, and enemies ruining your casts ? Furthermore, nothing stops the enemies from unleashing their more devastating spells either... Lastly, you get more spellcasts between rests, but you can use less of them every fight. In POE1, pretty much all of us ended up saving our spells for that one big fight where they would actually make a difference. Then, you'd empty your daily allotment. So yeah, your spells felt awesome I absolutely agree with you there ; you just never got to use them ! I'm still not sure how I feel about per-encounter spells (because one feels like they have to be less powerful, to make up for the increase in availability), but I know I disliked the idea of regular per-rest spells on wizards/druids/priests when ciphers could spam theirs for free. 1
dam Posted November 23, 2017 Posted November 23, 2017 I marginally preferred per-rest spells gameplay-wise, especially as I learned to use them more efficiently so I wasn't just saving them all for the Big Boss Battles. My problem with them is that you'd never run into an enemy caster who's saving their spells for the next thing; they're always fighting at full power, which puts some gulf between enemies and players. Personally I think long casting times but stronger spells is a fine way to balance per-encounter spells. I just hope they can get the "stronger spells" part right. This is an oft-overlooked point. In a game like Pillars, where many enemies use the same abilities as the PCs, per-rest spells favour them immensely. Apart from that, I'll add my voice to what everyone else has been saying. Per-rest spells are impossible to balance and completely wreck pacing. It was possible, in Pillars, to have your spellcasters consistently and strongly contribute with their passive and per-encounter abilities. Which, of course, is a problem, because then they contribute closely to the other classes while still sitting on spells that can decide an encounter. I don't know what problems spellcasting has in the beta right now, but per-rest spells belong six feet under. While this is a cogent point indeed, that enemies get to use their full repertoire against you, there are other much more impactful elements they do not get. They don't get to pause the game and think on the situation. They cannot predict your behaviour, while you can definitely predict theirs. They have no real intelligence, they're merely using weights to influence the "decision" they'll be "taking". They don't get to set-up (position characters, eat food, change gear, even set traps...) like you do. They don't get to reload once you've wiped them. They don't get to revive their comrades, you do ! (chanter evocation, paladin exhortation...) Seem like oft-overlooked points as well ? You bet they are, and these work in our favour. All in all, enemies get more power, but you get prediction, unlimited time to think, gear swapping, buffing, positioning... Ours is an immeasurably stronger position than theirs. 1
Lamppost in Winter Posted November 23, 2017 Posted November 23, 2017 They don't get to pause the game and think on the situation. They cannot predict your behaviour, while you can definitely predict theirs. They have no real intelligence, they're merely using weights to influence the "decision" they'll be "taking". They don't get to set-up (position characters, eat food, change gear, even set traps...) like you do. They don't get to reload once you've wiped them. They don't get to revive their comrades, you do ! (chanter evocation, paladin exhortation...) Seem like oft-overlooked points as well ? You bet they are, and these work in our favour. All in all, enemies get more power, but you get prediction, unlimited time to think, gear swapping, buffing, positioning... Ours is an immeasurably stronger position than theirs. These are good points. Josh has emphasised the smarter AI, so I wonder if we'll ever have AI that uses abilities close to player efficiency. Or at least, don't fry their own dudes with friendly fire. Corpse Eater Barb's description say that they "kill the target permanently", so I wonder if enemies can use revives now. I do hope so, since again, I like players and (standard kith) enemies to be on relatively equal footing.
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