This game could be, should be, and maybe already is... Classless.

[Bazy]

Obsidian will never be able to give one ruleset that will please everyone. People will always disagree on the basic variables:

 

- Classes:  X class should have Y Talents and Z passive and active Ability choices available at levels 2, 4, 6...

- Attributes: Attribute X should give bonuses to Y and Z...

- Skills: This class should get X skills points per level, or should be tied to Z attribute...

- Abilities: This ability should be used X times per encounter, should be Y strong, and last Z duration...

 

The solution is to make the game Classless through proper Modding tools.

 

Let the community run wild with all of the possibilities instead of forcing us into a default system full of compromises and subjective decisions. Modding was promised for POE I, but was not delivered. This time let the community add or remove talents and abilities to the default class trees Obsidian has created. The underlying game is amazing, but take it to the next level and make this a true RPG; give us the power to create our world. We just need the tools to do so. 

 

I don't literally mean remove classes.There is value in keeping the archetypes for scripted interactions, conversations, role-play. Instead I'm looking for  everyone to decide individually what each class, attribute, skill etc. means to them without forcing us to accept the default Obsidian view. 

 

The underlying game system does support this. POE I was effectively a classless game through consoles commands. You could take a blank slate rogue and give them (nearly) every combination of talents and abilities you wanted. Turning them into whatever crazy multiclass roleplay mage/warrior/paladin with a shield, pet and healing spells idea you wanted. You could do the same with attributes, and for your companions via adventurers. This was an awkward work around, but it was possible. 

 

We can go back and forth forever about how our ideas of the game are best. Or they can give us proper Modding tools, and empower the community to create solutions for everyone. 

 

Edit: To be clear I'm not expecting a full blown modding toolset. Josh has said this won't happen, but that they will be making the data easier to access and allow people to "mess around with." I'm hopeful that this will be sufficiently robust.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/119024818?t=33m20s

Edited November 19, 2017 by Bazy

[cheesevillain]

Modding tools take a lot more time and money to make. It's not something they can create on a whim. They'd have to sacrifice other stuff to get it in. They'd also probably need to have made that decision much earlier on in the game's development process.

 

2nd of all: You already can customize your character with console commands as you have suggested, so what exactly is wrong with the game as it is now?

 

And in response to your title, I think the game already is... Classy.

Edited November 19, 2017 by cheesevillain

[Heijoushin]

I can see your passion in this post, but I'm afraid that's not really a solution. The majority of players don't want to mess around with mods. They just want to buy a finished product and play it. So it is worth discussing our ideas and the "basic variables" of the thing

[Katarack21]

I can see your passion in this post, but I'm afraid that's not really a solution. The majority of players don't want to mess around with mods. They just want to buy a finished product and play it. So it is worth discussing our ideas and the "basic variables" of the thing

That's accurate, but at the same time once modding tools are released, it's only a matter of time before other tools are designed and released which make integrating mods as easy as clicking a couple buttons.

[Bazy]

I can see your passion in this post, but I'm afraid that's not really a solution. The majority of players don't want to mess around with mods. They just want to buy a finished product and play it. So it is worth discussing our ideas and the "basic variables" of the thing

I would point to games like Skyrim, Fallout NV, Xcom 2,  D:OS 2, Witcher 3 as evidence that the best RPGs are successful, in large part, because of their mod tools. 

[Katarack21]

 

I can see your passion in this post, but I'm afraid that's not really a solution. The majority of players don't want to mess around with mods. They just want to buy a finished product and play it. So it is worth discussing our ideas and the "basic variables" of the thing

I would point to games like Skyrim, Fallout NV, Xcom 2,  D:OS 2, Witcher 3 as evidence that the best RPGs are successful, in large part, because of their mod tools. 

 

...I didn't even know you *could* mod Witcher 3, actually.

[cheesevillain]

 

I can see your passion in this post, but I'm afraid that's not really a solution. The majority of players don't want to mess around with mods. They just want to buy a finished product and play it. So it is worth discussing our ideas and the "basic variables" of the thing

I would point to games like Skyrim, Fallout NV, Xcom 2,  D:OS 2, Witcher 3 as evidence that the best RPGs are successful, in large part, because of their mod tools. 

 

 

 

86% of Skyrim's sales were on consoles. I'd be surprised if the majority of pc players ever modded their games either.

 

I also had no idea there were any mods for Witcher 3 or Xcom 2.

 

Regardless, I'm not arguing that they're not excellent, nor that they don't make games sell. I'm saying that they're EXPENSIVE. They're probably not worth the investment, even if they help sell more copies of the game. They're probably not feasible at this point in any case.