Will the Barbarian Mage Slayer be as bad as Baldur's Gate's Wizard Slayer?

[dunehunter]

Has anyone tried a Mage Slayer/Monk? I'm curious about how Torment's Reach would interact with Carnage and the Mage Slayer magic blocking. If the magic block applied to the initial target plus the carnage from that attack and then also included applying the magic block to the AoE cone from Torment's that'd be interesting and perhaps more viable?

 

I did some small test, neither carnage or torment's reach works on second target. Only the target you are attacking will have the Wizard Slayer debuff.

 

The only thing that might apply AOE Wizard Slayer debuff is Citzal's Spirit Lance I think, but since buff duration is halved on Wizard Slayer, it's not a good choice to multclass with wizard.

Edited December 20, 2017 by dunehunter

[Yosharian]

LMAO the mage slayer duration penalty applies to Frenzy?!

 

Wow haha this one went from bad to worse

 

That is probably the worst thing I can imagine for a damage-focused Barbarian

[dunehunter]

LMAO the mage slayer duration penalty applies to Frenzy?!

 

Wow haha this one went from bad to worse

 

That is probably the worst thing I can imagine for a damage-focused Barbarian

 

I'm pretty sure this is not intended, because they are abilities not spells. But still the Debuff doesn't work with Carnage only the main target. So interrupt multiple casters at once is pretty hard to achieve.

[Boeroer]

But doesn't the description of the Mage Slayer say that Carnage also applies the debuff?

[dunehunter]

But doesn't the description of the Mage Slayer say that Carnage also applies the debuff?

 

I tested it on dummy targets, so I think its either an UI bug or Carnage bug.

[Raven Darkholme]

I hope since this game is still beta you guys don't mind a little OT in this thread.

(If you do I don't mind if my post get's removed)

The Wizard Slayer being bad in Baldur's Gate is more a meme than an actual fact.

Coincidentally not too long ago I was challenged to do the Twisted Rune fight with Ascension and SCS mod installed on Insane difficulty.

A level 40 wizard slayer with good equip demolishes all spellcasters and even those nasty SCS beholders not because of his spell disruption which is pretty ****ty in most cases indeed, but because of his insane magic resistance, coupled with some items it is easy to reach 100%.

 

Inquisitors Dispel on the other hand is quite useless solo when you play SCS, since many enemies have Spell Immunities and you have to wait for them to wear off all the same.

 

Ofc this is different in the vanilla game, but let's be real if a WS is very good with super hard mods installed he isn't worse when those mods are missing, the Inqui is just a little better, even tho he might still struggle more with beholders than the WS.

[Yosharian]

I hope since this game is still beta you guys don't mind a little OT in this thread.

(If you do I don't mind if my post get's removed)

The Wizard Slayer being bad in Baldur's Gate is more a meme than an actual fact.

Coincidentally not too long ago I was challenged to do the Twisted Rune fight with Ascension and SCS mod installed on Insane difficulty.

A level 40 wizard slayer with good equip demolishes all spellcasters and even those nasty SCS beholders not because of his spell disruption which is pretty ****ty in most cases indeed, but because of his insane magic resistance, coupled with some items it is easy to reach 100%.

 

Inquisitors Dispel on the other hand is quite useless solo when you play SCS, since many enemies have Spell Immunities and you have to wait for them to wear off all the same.

 

Ofc this is different in the vanilla game, but let's be real if a WS is very good with super hard mods installed he isn't worse when those mods are missing, the Inqui is just a little better, even tho he might still struggle more with beholders than the WS.

That's true I suppose, but SCS is a particularly odd beast, hardly representative of a normal BG2 experience, and you only talked about one fight I believe?

 

BG2 Wizard Slayer is balls because the advantages aren't balanced with the disadvantages for the vast majority of the game, simple as that.

 

Not to mention that equipping your character with awesome equipment (certainly a big part of BG2) becomes just that little bit less fun when you can't use half the gear.

 

For the current iteration of PoE2's Wizard Slayer to be viable, something has to be done about 'beneficial spells have shorter durations', it's just too much of a penalty.  Being unable to use potions alone would discourage me from taking this subclass.

 

If I were in charge of creating the Mage Slayer, I would do it something like this:

 

Disadvantages

• cannot use scrolls
• loses Carnage
• drinking potions causes the sickened status effect for the duration of the potion, or in the case of instant effect potions, ten seconds
• may not multiclass with any spellcasting class

Advantages

• replace Carnage with Spellstrike: any enemy struck by the Mage Slayer is debuffed for the remainder of the fight, debuff causes all spells cast to have double casting time, affects enemy immediately meaning if a spell is being cast when the hit lands then its cast time is immediately doubled
• zero recovery time (or maybe double damage instead? not sure) with any weapon when wearing no magical items (except weapons)
• gains new ability Spell Repulsion, the next spell to target the Mage Slayer fails completely, does not affect spells that do not target the Mage Slayer directly (instant cast time, once per encounter, lasts ten seconds)

 

Reasoning:

1. Replacing Carnage gives the subclass real flavour by changing the Barbarian's trademark ability, it also gives players who like the Barbarian concept but don't like Carnage different options which I think would be a real plus, it's also really interesting from a role-playing perspective.
2. Potion-drinking is too integral to the game to be removed completely: this allows you to still use them but be penalized for it.  It's also very easy to balance, it could even be a unique status effect, spell sickness for example, and it could have any number of penalties.  The idea is, yes you can still pop that healing potion but it's going to penalise your character pretty hard so it's only a last resort, as opposed to a standard Barbarian who can just chug away, it's also much more interesting from a role-playing perspective.  Penalties should impact on the character's ability to deal damage, or make him more susceptible to enemy attacks; they should not impact on the effect of the potion!
3. The zero recovery time ability is basically useless because nobody is ever going to do that, but it's got two main reasons to exist: firstly, it offers flavour to the character and defines him as someone who can really go crazy with a weapon if he keeps himself 'pure' (but probably won't for practical reasons, life is a tricky beast like that).  Secondly, it offers players a unique concept which they could either have fun with from a role-playing perspective or it could offer a challenge, as in hell yes, I'm going to beat Path of the Damned using a pure Mage Slayer build from start to finish.  Some players thrive on this sort of thing.
4. Spell Repulsion offers a skill-based ability in that if you use it at the wrong time it might block nothing at all, if you aren't the target of the spell you'll still get messed up, etc.  It's powerful if you use it correctly, or are a little lucky.  It's sort of a joker card. It's also interesting from a role-playing perspective.

 

Summary: I replaced the Mage Slayer's current abilities, which are mostly percentage-based 'hit or miss' type affairs (Spell Disruption might do absolutely nothing even if you hit a spellcaster, Spell Resistance might do nothing not sure how it works but I'm betting its a percentage chance to resist a spell which is just crap because you can't rely on it) that are very boring and not at all thematic, with a balance of passive and active abilities that dramatically affect combat in distinct and consistent, but not overpowered, ways.  And yes Spell Repulsion might do nothing at all but if it did, then it would be your fault, not the fault of ****ty dice rolls.

 

I rebalanced the Mage Slayer's penalties to be restrictive with scrolls (mostly affects powergamers) but flexible with potions, which is a lot more reasonable than banning potions altogether in my opinion and is also more interesting for role-playing, and added the multiclass penalty which makes sense from a role-playing perspective.

 

I think this would be a lot more fun, and would emphasise role-playing while still being interesting from a powergaming perspective.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Yosharian