Valian views on infertility.

[Pallegina's Panties]

So Pallegina found a legal loophole of not being considered an actual woman due to her Godlike status leaving her infertile and thus not a "proper" woman per Valian custom. Which has some rather interesting repercussions when you think about it:

 

Sterility/Infertility is a thing that can happen to regular humans (and I would assume the other races of PoE) - are they stripped of their legal status as man or woman as a result? What about a man who has been forcefully castrated, either by malice or by accident? What about menopausal women who can no longer have children?

 

The mind boggles....

[smjjames]

I suspect that it has more to do with the godlike status and less to do with biological sex or infertility. Her mention of it is also the only mention of it I believe.

 

It does open up some cultural and legal repercussions, yeah, though I don't expect the Obsidian team to spend a huge amount of time dwelling on the legal fine print of the culture while culture-crafting.

 

Given how the Vailians have a very significant presence in the Deadfire, we might see more references to it.

Edited July 23, 2017 by smjjames

[Pallegina's Panties]

Come to think of it, I think Aloth mentions that the offspring of men and elves (i.e traditional Half-Elves per DnD standard) are also born infertile/sterile.

[Heijoushin]

Come to think of it, I think Aloth mentions that the offspring of men and elves (i.e traditional Half-Elves per DnD standard) are also born infertile/sterile.

 

Actually, I don't think men and elves can have children in the PoE universal. That's why there are no playable half- races.

[Pallegina's Panties]

 

Come to think of it, I think Aloth mentions that the offspring of men and elves (i.e traditional Half-Elves per DnD standard) are also born infertile/sterile.

 

Actually, I don't think men and elves can have children in the PoE universal. That's why there are no playable half- races.

 

 

No, I distinctly remember Aloth talking about it.

 

Probably spurned on by either Durance or the little perverted orlan druid who's name I keep forgetting.

 

EDIT: No, actually he mentions it when you ask him about his parents and Aedyr.

 

http://imgur.com/a/2OEuq

Edited July 24, 2017 by Pallegina's Panties

[Heijoushin]

 

 

Come to think of it, I think Aloth mentions that the offspring of men and elves (i.e traditional Half-Elves per DnD standard) are also born infertile/sterile.

 

Actually, I don't think men and elves can have children in the PoE universal. That's why there are no playable half- races.

 

 

No, I distinctly remember Aloth talking about it.

 

Probably spurned on by either Durance or the little perverted orlan druid who's name I keep forgetting.

 

EDIT: No, actually he mentions it when you ask him about his parents and Aedyr.

 

http://imgur.com/a/2OEuq

 

 

He says "elf and folk unions are sterile", which I take to mean "no kids", not "the kids are born sterile". 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Heijoushin

[Pallegina's Panties]

I'm not too sure about that.

 

Seems like a very odd and convoluted way of saying so. On the other hand, it makes perfect sense if they are talking about the offspring. "Horse and donkey unions are sterile".

[Heijoushin]

I'm not too sure about that.

 

Seems like a very odd and convoluted way of saying so. On the other hand, it makes perfect sense if they are talking about the offspring. "Horse and donkey unions are sterile".

 

Well... it's an odd way of phrasing it, but the subject of the sentence is "unions" not "children". Unions = the sex, right?

 

And we don't meet a single half- anything character in the entire game. I think Obsidian probably wanted to move away from this due to the half-orc/ogre issue. 

 

EDIT: Getting back to your original question, I would guess that menopausal women are safe (provided they had children before they hit menopause), but I'm thinking that sterile women, unics, and other unfortunate individuals would be shunned by society. I don't think we have enough info to be sure at this point though. We'll have to wait for a PoE set in the Valian Republics.  

Edited July 24, 2017 by Heijoushin

[Messier-31]

1. Vailian not Valian
2. Thread titles do not have dots (".") at the end
3. Vailians claim godlikes neither male/female because of infertility, so this one is really tricky (source: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65334-a-few-world-lore-questions-item-submission-help/?do=findComment&comment=1425420). But there might be an easy explanation: simply all godlikes are sterile which makes them different as a whole, and only few other kith (e.g. humans) may become sterile, hence double standards.
4. In POE universe it is impossible to have interracial offspring such as half-elf, and this is what Aloth is saying

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Race

Races differ from each other physiologically, sexual pairings by different races (e.g. elves and humans, orlans and elves) never result in conception. But inter race unions such as Aedyr Haemneg are possible.

 

*flies away*

Edited July 24, 2017 by Messier-31

[Heijoushin]

 

*flies away*

 

Thank you Captain! That's just the passage I was looking for!

[Rosbjerg]

Thread pruned, let's stay on topic and not let things get personal.

[Pallegina's Panties]

Thread pruned, let's stay on topic and not let things get personal.

 

Thank you. :3

[scythesong]

That's how many old societies worked. Back when there wasn't anything like DNA evidence or even anything remotely like the western legal/justice system, you could get sentenced for doing something you didn't do simply because your accusers outnumbered you 10-to-1. So you better believe that fertility was a VERY big thing back then.

 

"Congrats, you don't have children. BTW your neighbor and his thirteen sons are accusing you of having raped his wife. What, you can't offer any evidence to the contrary? Well, that's just tough. Your holdings have been confiscated pending an investigation (hah). See 'ya in the mines!"

That's assuming the rival family doesn't kill you outright and blame your disappearance on some wandering vagrant. The law itself doesn't really have to do anything.

 

Still, the fact that loopholes like that exist however do prove that although the society of the Vailian Republics is heavily skewed towards boosting the current population (which, if you read the book about all the dangers of Eora's seas and oceans, makes sense) the ruling body does not actually condemn infertile people. Seriously, Pallegina's superiors seem perfectly fine with the fact that she's a woman in a personal sense, as long as she does her job. One might even argue that her superiors probably took her exotic nature into consideration.

Anyway given that society's propensity for laws and contracts and the like, you'd think they'd be putting more effort towards plugging that "little" loophole if it wasn't intended.

Edited July 26, 2017 by scythesong

[smjjames]

I wouldn't say that their society has a propensity for laws and contracts, the only parts we saw were the politics side and trading (where you'd expect a propensity for laws and contracts), and little else. Vailian culture is going to have a MUCH larger presence in Neketaka (the de-facto capitol of the Deadfire) outside of politics and trade, so, we'll definetly see more aspects of Vailian culture.

[scythesong]

You do realize that they have a voting system, a ducal congress and Pallegina even points out that her superiors love to debate stuff. The way they're presented in-game and in lore, they're basically the PoE equivalent of Dragon Age's Orlais.

Edited July 27, 2017 by scythesong

[smjjames]

You do realize that they have a voting system, a ducal congress and Pallegina even points out that her superiors love to debate stuff. The way they're presented in-game and in lore, they're basically the PoE equivalent of Dragon Age's Orlais.

 

Aren't her superors politicians? I'm not familiar with Dragon Age though, besides hearing of it.

[scythesong]

Think Italian Renaissance, with people being all conservative and bureaucratic and following the letter of the law in public while doing their damndest to break the spirit of the law  behind the scenes. After all, you need to be really familiar with the law to exploit it.

 

In Dragon Age the culture of Orlais (one of the strongest nations in the game) actually encourages this kind of ruthless behavior, so that only the best and most cunning politicians get to lead. Very Games of Thrones-y. This is the vibe I get from the Vailian Republics based on Pallegina's comments and in-game lore/events (like how they abandon Verzano to his fate after he takes a risky gamble and loses).

 

I'd recommend Dragon Age: Origins if you like strategy games like PoE and with summer sales you can even get the ultimate edition (ie, base game and all the expansions/dlcs) for like 5-10 bucks. DA:2 and 3 are more like action games though.

Edited July 30, 2017 by scythesong