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Magic Trait bug


ericconcannon

Question

Here's the situation where this has cropped up a few times: character XXX encounters an incorporeal monster (ghost, spectre, etc.) that requires the magic trait in order to be defeated. XXX does not have a magic weapon or attack spell, but can bring the requisite damage via powers, blessings and such. In order to defeat the monster, XXX elicits help from a friend in the form of a spell, like Aid, Strength, Agility, or Guidance, all of which have the magic trait. The extra dice/damage from these spells are not needed, but the magic trait is critical.

 

You can probably see where this is going: required combat check result is achieved with ease, but monster is not banished as if were undefeated.

 

I have played the tabletop game for years and am certain that all traits of cards played by other characters to help with XXX's checks apply to that check. Of course, this cuts both ways...if a monster is immune to fire, a friend who has the Ally Poog can't use Poog's +3 with the fire trait power to provide help.

 

I haven't been able to check if all the permutations of this in PA are working as I would expect. I will certainly provide more detail if needed. I will also add to this thread when new variations on this seem not to work as I expect...that is, unless someone clarifies that this is WAI.

 

Is this a known problem, WAI, or is it happening to others?

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Quick follow-up: the steam release also came with a 2017 revision of the Rise of the Runelords Rulebook.  

 

I'm reasonably sure it was also in a previous revision, but compared to the original, the rules now specifically note things like: "for example, playing the spell Aid on a check does not give the check the Divine trait" on page 14.

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Working as Intended.  Though, it took until Skull and Shackles for the rulebook put out some clear guidance on how traits get added to checks.
 
Traits are added to a check in one of the three following ways:
1. The card you are playing for the check automatically transfers its traits into the check.
2. If additional cards are played that specifically state to add traits to a check, those traits are added as well
3. The skill you are using for the roll, and any skill it may be based on, are additional traits for the purpose of the check.
 
If character A attempts a check with a Longsword, and Character B casts Guidance to give them a boost, that does not add the Magic trait to the check.
 
One of the game designers, Mike Selinker did inadvertently tell the community something to the effect of "all cards give their traits to the check", but he later reversed that opinion in late 2013, and it's been that way in the rulebooks ever since. 

8. Boons that let you make checks give their traits to those checks.
If a card you play tells you how or when to make a check to acquire or defeat – and only in that case – apply that card's traits to the check. Ranged weapons give the Ranged trait. Magic weapons give the Magic trait. Divine spells that let you use Divine as your combat check give the Divine trait. For example, Lightning Touch tells you to make an Arcane + 2d4 combat check, and thus it applies Magic, Arcane, Attack, Electricity, and Basic traits to the check. Guidance, on the other hand, does not tell you to make a check, so it does not apply any of its traits to the check, regardless of the fact that it is only used in checks. (This is a huge departure from my slapdash statement online that “cards give their traits to checks,” which was overbroad and a clear reminder that game designers should never be allowed to speak in public.)

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