Party for upscaled PotD

[Lampros]

I just check the stats for Young Wolves and they have 46/58 Endurance on Hard/PotD respectively so yeah, it looks like they get +25% Endurance on PotD.

 

Xaurips are armed with spears which do 11-16 damage which, when modified by their 7 Might is 10.01-14.56 so yeah, that's the same damage. It might be different for enemies that don't use standard weapons e.g. wolves.

 

Crunching numbers aside, how much harder is PotD in practice? I am thinking of jumping to PotD from Normal immediately, since the increase in stats is not as extreme as I feared. Will I be in for a rude awakening? In Normal, I did not really do much buffing or debuffing, and I just started hitting or shooting immediately and rarely was in trouble once I had 2 Chanters with Dragon Thrashed at level 9. Obviously, I will have to play more deliberately.

 

Another issue is that how much limited are you in terms of classes and builds in PotD? For instance, I think it would be super-fun to try a group without a shield-using melee. So I am thinking 2 front-line Paladins with either both dual wielding or 1 dual wield/1 2H set-up. Is this crazy for a first-time go at PotD? I will have a 2nd-line Chanter with Tall Grass as link between 2nd and 3rd line, and the 3rd line troika of Borresaine Chanter, Wizard, and Priest. Would I need more CC if I am going to have 2 front-liners without a shield?

 

Edit: I am trying to compensate for the lack of shield users with probably 1 Paladin doing Wayfarer on-kill heals, and the other Shieldbearer Paladin doing more defensive buffs. And I may have a dual wield Paladin using multiple stunning/prone-ing weapons.

 

And what else should I be aware of?

Edited September 18, 2017 by Lampros

[JerekKruger]

I agree I had the same issues with the way the Elder Scrolls did it.  It was stupid crushing away with a mace at a bandit 25 times.  POE does it in a much more believable way.  I like it.

 

Agreed. I usually hate difficulties that rely on buffing enemies, but PotD doesn't feel anywhere near as bad as most other games that do it.

 

Crunching numbers aside, how much harder is PotD in practice? I am thinking of jumping to PotD from Normal immediately, since the increase in stats is not as extreme as I feared. Will I be in for a rude awakening? In Normal, I did not really do much buffing or debuffing, and I just started hitting or shooting immediately and rarely was in trouble once I had 2 Chanters with Dragon Thrashed at level 9. Obviously, I will have to play more deliberately.

 

Another issue is that how much limited are you in terms of classes and builds in PotD? For instance, I think it would be super-fun to try a group without a shield-using melee. So I am thinking 2 front-line Paladins with either both dual wielding or 1 dual wield/1 2H set-up. Is this crazy for a first-time go at PotD? I will have a 2nd-line Chanter with Tall Grass as link between 2nd and 3rd line, and the 3rd line troika of Borresaine Chanter, Wizard, and Priest. Would I need more CC if I am going to have 2 front-liners without a shield?

 

Edit: I am trying to compensate for the lack of shield users with probably 1 Paladin doing Wayfarer on-kill heals, and the other Shieldbearer Paladin doing more defensive buffs. And I may have a dual wield Paladin using multiple stunning/prone-ing weapons.

 

And what else should I be aware of?

 

It's hard for me to say for certain how your experience of PotD would be, as you have a very different style of play to me (I pause and micro all the time). Certainly buffing, debuffing and crowd control are going to be more useful in PotD than on other difficulties. That said, I think you're worrying about the difficulty more than you need to. Shields certainly aren't a necessity and I can't think of any builds that are good on normal/hard but not viable on PotD.

 

I'd just jump in and try it out.

[Lampros]

 

I agree I had the same issues with the way the Elder Scrolls did it.  It was stupid crushing away with a mace at a bandit 25 times.  POE does it in a much more believable way.  I like it.

 

Agreed. I usually hate difficulties that rely on buffing enemies, but PotD doesn't feel anywhere near as bad as most other games that do it.

 

Crunching numbers aside, how much harder is PotD in practice? I am thinking of jumping to PotD from Normal immediately, since the increase in stats is not as extreme as I feared. Will I be in for a rude awakening? In Normal, I did not really do much buffing or debuffing, and I just started hitting or shooting immediately and rarely was in trouble once I had 2 Chanters with Dragon Thrashed at level 9. Obviously, I will have to play more deliberately.

 

Another issue is that how much limited are you in terms of classes and builds in PotD? For instance, I think it would be super-fun to try a group without a shield-using melee. So I am thinking 2 front-line Paladins with either both dual wielding or 1 dual wield/1 2H set-up. Is this crazy for a first-time go at PotD? I will have a 2nd-line Chanter with Tall Grass as link between 2nd and 3rd line, and the 3rd line troika of Borresaine Chanter, Wizard, and Priest. Would I need more CC if I am going to have 2 front-liners without a shield?

 

Edit: I am trying to compensate for the lack of shield users with probably 1 Paladin doing Wayfarer on-kill heals, and the other Shieldbearer Paladin doing more defensive buffs. And I may have a dual wield Paladin using multiple stunning/prone-ing weapons.

 

And what else should I be aware of?

 

It's hard for me to say for certain how your experience of PotD would be, as you have a very different style of play to me (I pause and micro all the time). Certainly buffing, debuffing and crowd control are going to be more useful in PotD than on other difficulties. That said, I think you're worrying about the difficulty more than you need to. Shields certainly aren't a necessity and I can't think of any builds that are good on normal/hard but not viable on PotD.

 

I'd just jump in and try it out.

 

 

Ok, you persuaded me to go into PotD relatively blind, with no "hard" difficulty as a transition. I am going to blame you if I fail miserably!

[Boeroer]

Sounds good. I'm giving it a go. Is there a recommended order for selection of abilities to achieve optimum performance? I already took swift & lightning strikes + torment's reach. Fighting with bare hands at the moments appears to be more effective, but I'm considering picking WF next and switching to weapons in order to boost the accuracy..

 

Don't know if you know: Transcendent Suffering's ACC bonus does not translate to Torment's Reach - while the ACC bonus of weapons does. So if you use Torment's Reach a lot it's best to switch to weapon use soon.

[r2d23]

Haven't had the chance to start the run yet, so I keep thinking here about my monk.

 

I like the mechanics of the lashing build and it fits perfectly into the party with Kana and Pallegina in terms of synergy. The character will probably be super-durable against large groups, but he feels kind of out-of-place in terms of RP (I want to make a character for PoE2). I also don't like the low DEX score, playing a slow monk annoys me.

 

On the other hand I really like the witch doctor idea, such a great character concept! Kind of a wandering monster slayer. But I worry about his durability on PotD + ToI, especially against the kith groups (the hardest bounties are amongst those). The mechanics feels risky to me as well: the necessity to catch some damage and disengage combined with mediocre CON probably isn't the best approach for ToI.

 

I've been trying to come up with some ways to combine these two ideas into one build that will be durable enough to be in the thick of combat and deal passive damage via retaliation while being able to dish out fast ranged damage when needed. But I guess it's hard to have the cake and eat it too.

 

The way I see it, i'd have to give up some of the lash mechanics (the lightning stuff or the corrode damage) in order to grab some a couple of racial damage talents. The race would have to be fire godlike, obviously, so that's less built-in accuracy from being a boreal dwarf. Maybe I don't even need that much built-in accuracy with priest and paladin in the party. The original witch doctor uses lots of disables but they don't get accuracy bonus from the long pain that's why all the racial talents, I guess.

 

I'd probably have to sacrifice intellect too in favour of a higher DEX score (I am overall against the min-max approach).

 

So that's a dilemma Unfortunately, I don't have much time to play-proof these ideas, and one can theory-craft only so much. So advice is welcome.

 

In the end, if there's no good way to combine these two concepts without gimping the character too much, I'd rather go with fast lash retaliation monk and grab TLP for him at some point. Maybe also enlist Zahua later on to check out the potential of the full-blown TLP build.

[Lampros]

Sounds good. Don't make your damage dealers too squishy and your frontliner too defensive (menaing they can't deal any damage).

 

This advice is so golden: I am having a stupendously successful PotD run where my entire front-line is a "hybrid" that could do both damage and tank (honestly, all 4 melees - even the Priest - could easily tank any of the Dragons). Likewise, none of my back-line DPS is squishy either - one being a Borresaine Fighter and the other being a Moon God-like Wizard with Arcane Veil. Just powering through the content with minimal micro-management - and handled both Concelhaut and Llengrath with ridiculous ease, even though this is the first time I faced either (I skipped both in my Normal run).

 

Full report on my experience when I am done. I finally found a group I liked and stuck with, and it was a power-house. In both the Concelhaut and the Llengrath fights, nobody even went below 75 percent Endurance. My only knockout was when I lost both the Borresaine Fighter and the Chanter when I dropped down the spider passageway to grab Cladhaliath, and the spiders swarmed and a trap went off at the same time - and I had no time to do anything (This was the first time I went there, so I had no idea what to expect.) Otherwise, this could have easily been a no knockout run.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Lampros

[Boeroer]

To be fair: a supertank (who does not much damage) can be quite nice against dragons and certain bounties. But for most fights they just lack usefulness.

[Moneo]

Well, a mere paladin can be a such "supertank". It inflicts few damage until level 13, after that it starts to deliver a considerable amount with Sacred Immolation (even with low Per, I was surprised). Also, such a tank helps the party with his auras, heals and buffs. It's very useful during the whole gameplay.

 

Also, in some fights like dealing with Maerwald, that mess on the bridge in Defiance Bay and some other - your PC moves forward during the scripted scene. So, it's handy to have a PC tank for those occasions, albeit they are quite rare.

[Boeroer]

Yes, maybe useful when it comes to support, no doubt, but not very useful at tanking (at least at PoTD), which in my book not only means to survive everything the enemy has to offer, but also to bind enemies (at least melee ones) so that your backline doesn't get attacked. This doesn't work very well with a passive "supertank" who has no means of dealing damage or disables (like Overbearing Guard) because mobs will just ignore you once one or two engaged and rush your backline. It's better if you can for example knockdown two or three and kill others rather quickly while being sturdy enough to survive the heat of the front line. I mean the usual encounter on PoTD with a lot of enemeis, not boss fights. 

[Lampros]

To be fair: a supertank (who does not much damage) can be quite nice against dragons and certain bounties. But for most fights they just lack usefulness.

 

But hybrid DPS/tanks can do fine in these situations, too. It appears to me that even a middle-of-the-road builds that only take minimal "tanking" Abilities/Talents/gear can achieve 200 or more Deflection and Defenses with various Scrolls and party buffs. And there is no fight where those numbers are not sufficient. Heck, I suspect even going over 175 is enough for even Llengrath. (Speaking of which, is there an actual benefit to fighting her? I realized fighting her just nets you 2 more hides, and I would frankly rather take the permanent buff to three stats.)

 

 

Well, a mere paladin can be a such "supertank". It inflicts few damage until level 13, after that it starts to deliver a considerable amount with Sacred Immolation (even with low Per, I was surprised). Also, such a tank helps the party with his auras, heals and buffs. It's very useful during the whole gameplay.

 

Also, in some fights like dealing with Maerwald, that mess on the bridge in Defiance Bay and some other - your PC moves forward during the scripted scene. So, it's handy to have a PC tank for those occasions, albeit they are quite rare.

 

But my point is that a Paladin can be a superb tank even without investing heavily into tanking Abilities/Talents/gear. I dual wielded the last half of the game on both him and my front-line Fighter, and the Paladin whipped out Outworn Buckler only for the Alpine Dragon and Llengrath fights (I forgot to do so on the Adra fight). So I really see no point in going the full tank route. There has to a better value to being a full tank for it to be an attractive option - something like superior crowd control/aggro maintenance (Overbearing Guard is okay in this respect, but it is not nearly enough - and, besides, it's just one level-up point, so a hybrid can just take it without going the full tanking route anyway).

[Moneo]

But my point is that a Paladin can be a superb tank even without investing heavily into tanking Abilities/Talents/gear. I dual wielded the last half of the game on both him and my front-line Fighter, and the Paladin whipped out Outworn Buckler only for the Alpine Dragon and Llengrath fights (I forgot to do so on the Adra fight). So I really see no point in going the full tank route. There has to a better value to being a full tank for it to be an attractive option - something like superior crowd control/aggro maintenance (Overbearing Guard is okay in this respect, but it is not nearly enough - and, besides, it's just one level-up point, so a hybrid can just take it without going the full tanking route anyway).

 

Yes, pally's innate abilities make him tanky. Also, he can be an okay DD-er. But a tanky pally just suits my playstyle so well. I like to run a high Res / high Int paladin as a PC, this provides me with good conversational options. Then, I like to abuse Sacred Immolation in every battle, it's an awesome thing. But the damage goes at expense of the health, so the less harm to health this char receives from the mobs, the more battles I can pass through without resting. Personally, I hate the resting system in PoE, 'cause frequent resting leads to just wasting your real time while returning for those stupid supplies and staring at those dull loading screens. Last but not least, there is Defensive Mindweb. Boosting your pally's defenses leads to making the whole your party almost invulnerable in the late game.

 

Speaking of a good damaging tank option, I think, a monk suits this role the best.