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Starting my canon MC, a tank chanter. A few questions:

chanter party composition firearms chanter tactics

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#1
NatureWithoutMan

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So I have decided on a MC for my canon run that I will port over to Deadfire. I am going to play a tank chanter with high might to melt foes with Dragon Thrashed, and was wondering about a few things. 

1) I want to take Eder, Pallegina, Aloth, and Kana since they are likely to play a big role in the next game. Any suggestions as to builds for them? I was thinking Eder as Lady of pain, and Aloth as a blaster, but Pallegina and Kana both throw me off. Maybe Kana as more of a ranged support/buffer, as I won't be using many of the buffs?  

2) If Kana comes with, do chants stack, or should I diversify chants? 

3) I want to switch to a firearm when appropriate. I was wondering if there is any synergy with "And Hel-Hyraf Crashed Upon the Shield" and then switching for a blunderbuss shot, or is that tactic not powerful enough? Would Aefyllah Ues Mith Fir work with a blunderbuss?

 

I know some of these questions have probably already been answered, so I apologize in advance, but I figured I'd ask all my questions all at once.


Thanks!



#2
Livegood118

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1) I want to take Eder, Pallegina, Aloth, and Kana since they are likely to play a big role in the next game. Any suggestions as to builds for them? I was thinking Eder as Lady of pain, and Aloth as a blaster, but Pallegina and Kana both throw me off. Maybe Kana as more of a ranged support/buffer, as I won't be using many of the buffs?  
 
I'd turn Pallegina in to a marker/support Paladin with dual marking weapons (e.g. Shame or Glory/Cladhalliath) and coordinated attacks so she can give nearby allies +30 accuracy. Sacred Immolation is a definite once you get it (Level 13). Other than that, Pallegina's unique Marked Enemy paladin talent is quite good but I don't think the flames of devotion one is amazing. Marked enemy works nice with charm or other damage/status affects you can apply from items/spells.
 
Kana is actually built quite well to be a dragon thrashed tank as well, but you could easily turn him in to a Chillfog build (See the sticky post of builds in this forum) or a Chanter focused on the level 2 CC chants.
 
2) If Kana comes with, do chants stack, or should I diversify chants? 
 
Damage over time chants will stack on enemies, buff chants on your party will not stack.
 

 

3) I want to switch to a firearm when appropriate. I was wondering if there is any synergy with "And Hel-Hyraf Crashed Upon the Shield" and then switching for a blunderbuss shot, or is that tactic not powerful enough? Would Aefyllah Ues Mith Fir work with a blunderbuss?
 
Aefyllah Ues mith fyr does not work well with a blunderbuss because of the way lashes are calculated, you're better using it with larger damage weapons and spells (e.g. Arquebus)
 
Hel Hyraf Crash upon the shield is nothing to write home about. Wizards can drop expose vulnerabilities which is more or less the same effect with a longer duration (if I recall correctly).
 
Weapon switching seems good in principle but gets old fast
 
I think having a Chanter in your back row is kind of a waste but that's just me.
 
Overall I think the following lineup would suit you well:
 
PC: Dragon Thrashed Chanter (See Boeroer's Drake's Ambassador)
Pallegina: Marker/Support (Coordinated Attacks, Lay on Hands, Reinforcing Exhortation, Sworn enemy, Sacred Immolation etc ...)
Kana: Chillfog (Again, Boeroer's build)
Eder: Lady of Pain
Aloth
Priest


#3
Boeroer

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Yes, Dragon Thrashed completely stacks. The game might become too easy once you hit lvl 9...

As Livegood118 said, blunderbuss + lash is not an optimal choice. Although lowering enemies DR is the right approach instead of stacking DR bypass (lashes don't work with DR bypass). An arquebus would still be the better choice. Hel-Hyraf is a rel. weak invocation.

I often use my Pallegina as total alpha striker like so:

- FoD
- Wrath of the Five Suns
- Prestidigitator's Missiles
- Intense Flames
- Scion of Flames
- Arms Bearer
- Penetrating Shot
- Runner's Wounding Shot
- arbalest with burning lash
- 2 arquebus with burning lash (one of it the marking one - works great with Coordinated Attacks)
- Cloak of Minor Missiles
- Ryona's Vambraces
- Coil of Resourcefulness
- Sacred Immolation

She can then do the following: start with Wrath (Sworn Enemy), targeting the toughest foe. This will do around 100 -130 damage most of the time. Then I will use the arbalest with FoD on the same target. Often that shot will crit, causing prone (all arbalests do that) and dealing > 100 damage, then Prestidigitator's Missiles (often 60-90 damage), then the last two arguebuses with Runner's Wounding and FoD (also over 100 dmg). The last arquebus I keep firing with because the marking stacks with Coordinated Attacks and gives a fellow +20 ACC. I equip her with heavy armor because it doesn't matter much with this setup and because she wants to get near enemies for Sacred Immolation.
In tougher encounters I like to use Minor Missiles from the cloak as well since they do a lot of damage with Sworn Enemy and stacked DR bypass. Missile scrolls also work fine.

This setup is a very good alpha striker. She can take out threats in seconds (except dragons who need a bit more attention ;)).

If you don't want to stack Dragon Thrashed you might take this chanter into consideration which I tested after toying around with MaxQuest's speed calculator:

Chanter with Sure Handed Ila and Hold-Wall or Borresaine and max DEX and PER:

- wood elf
- arbalest (Hold-Wall) or
- war bow (Borresaine)
- Sure Handed Ila & any tier-1-phrase
- Outlander's Frenzy
- Champion Braved the Horde alone
- Killers Froze Stiff
- Gunner (when using arbalest)
- DEX 20
- rel. light armor

A chanter with this setup can shoot with little to no recovery rel. early in the game (Outlander's Frenzy helps and stacks with Ila) while also buffing other ranged teammates. One idea is to get phrases quickly in order to chain Killers Froze stiff while stunning (Borresaine) enemies or causing prone (Hold-Wall). You can paralyze-lock enemies pretty early in the game with this. With the arbalest the shooting speed is surprisingly fast with Ila, Gunner and over 20 DEX - comparable to a two hander, wielded by a slower guy in heavy armor).

The good synergy with another chanter who uses Dragon Thrashed is that paralyze lowers reflex a lot and Dragon Thrashed targets reflex.

Later you can start the chanting with Myth Fyr, add some revolutions of Ila + tier-1-phrase so that your phrase counter reaches your cointer limit pretty fast and then repeats with Myth Fur. This way you can make sure that Pallegina and others can add lashes to their alpha strikes - be it spell or ability. And later on, after cycling through your Ila/tier-1 phrases, when your and Kana's phrase counters are full, you can choose to use a damaging invocation with Myth Fyr again if you want. You have to adjust the phrases from time to time to make sure that the timing is right. I don't mean that you should switch chants but arranging your song like so:
Myth Fyr - Ila - tier-1 - Ila - tier-1 (repeat so it fits nicely with the invocations you are aiming for).

Myth Fyr will add quite the damage to Pallegina's alpha strikes (30% due to Scion)!

The advantage of such a build is that you are more flexible and do more for party members than pure Dragon Thrashed will do. For example a Blast-Aloth will love Sure Handed Ila and mass paralyze. And it's fun, too.
Chaining Killers Froze stiff can be very powerful.
In later levels you can choose to use Champions once Outlander's Frenzy wears out in order to maintain very high attack speed.

You could also think about using Myth Fur more frequently - you will have to test out yourself. If you add a burning lash to your weapon and also take Scion you will have a permanent +60% burn damage boost if you chain Myth Fyr properly without gap. But you'll lose "singing speed" and the counter will not fill as quickly and you shooting will be slower because Ila will not work without gap when combined with a longer phrase until late game.

Of course nothing beats double Dragon Thrashed though. Wizard casts Binding Web, 2 chanters use Dragon Thrashed - encounter's basically over. ;)

Edited by Boeroer, 07 April 2017 - 03:58 PM.


#4
Blades of Vanatar

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I would use Sagani over Kana since you're already using a Dragon Thrashed melting Chanter. As you melt the foe Sagani can rapidly finish off specific foes, especially enemy casters, while her pet fox ties up other enemy DPSers.

#5
NatureWithoutMan

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Thanks everyone,

So sounds like I'll just finish Kana's storyline and drop him. Livegood and Boeroer thanks for the advice with builds, and Blades I will definitely consider Sagani. 

Do chants count as spells and so do not stack? If i use expose vulnerabilities and Hel-Hyraf would it stack? I guess I thought that I could tank with a shield throughout most of the fight and then drop Hel-Hyraf and switch to the blunderbuss to hit an enemy really hard. I guess I'll stick to an aquebus or arbalest then. I have trouble pulling off the white worms invocation, so I was looking for something a little different than the typical Reny Daret,  White Worms, and Thunder Rolled invocation build. I've found Thrice Was She Wronged totally underwhelming, so I was hoping to find a little niche invocation. Oh well. 

 



#6
Boeroer

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You can do that blunderbuss-trick. But it's still less effective than to use your phrase-points on a more powerful invocation than Hel-Hyraf. Except you have other party members who can make good use of DR reduction - like others with blunderbusses or spells with a lot of tiny hits, like Mind Blades or Blast.
All other party members would profit more from Killers Froze Stiff for example, because a spell will do more damage with a crit than with more DR bypass.

I never tried if Expose Vulnerabilities stacks with Hel-Gyraf to be honest.

If it does things become interesting. Then I would def. use a wizard with Blast and The Golden Gaze in combo with Hel-Hyraf + Blunderbuss and I would also consider giving Pallegina blunderbusses.

#7
dgray62

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Boeroer, I am intrigued by your wood elf archer chanter proto-build. I've been thinking of ways to flesh it out a bit. Obviously you'd want max DEX and high PER as you indicate, but you'd still need decent MIG for damage, and INT for the duration of chants, buffs, and CC  (stuns, etc.) But you could drop CON and RES since s/he would be a backline ranged attacker. How does the following sound as starting stats: MIG 15, CON 7, DEX 20, PER 18, INT 15, RES 3? S/he would be somewhat squishy, but could dish out Killers Froze Stiff when pesky melee types get too close.



#8
Boeroer

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Looks good. If you keep recovery as short as possible (invocations cause recovery and pause chanting) you can paralyze-lock with Killers Froze Stiff pretty early (needs crits first, then later also works with hits). Most enemies will not have shrugged off the effect when you cast it again. However, in easy fights all enemies might be dead before the first use of Killers is ready. ;) Chanter problems... that's why doing something good with the bow or arbalest is nice, too. With Sure Handed Ila and Outlander's Frenzy you can shoot very quickly until Killers is ready.
Cloudpiercer could also be very nice because rending + speed is a good thing. But because of stunning I think Borresaine is the better bow. But Hold-Wall is fun, too. With Gunner, high Dex and Ila the reload isn't that long anymore and because of the speed enchantment it has nearly 0 recovery early on (combined with Ila + Outlander's).

Edited by Boeroer, 11 April 2017 - 08:15 PM.


#9
dgray62

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Thanks, Boeroer. I look forward to trying this build.







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