Well, that was a shock.

[Sines314]

To add onto my point, I picked up the Jingle Bundle last night, just to support the developers. I don't see myself doing this with the alts. And I suspect it's the same with most other non-whale players. The only non-whale players I see thinking the value to be worth it are highly dedicated fans, but those are also the people most likely to just have the gold already, and therefore won't purchase the alts with real money. Or, at the very least, are the least likely to be interested in paying for a bundle of the alt AND the base character. And newer players, such as myself, are more likely to be perfectly happy with the base character alone.

 

I'm very much enjoying the game, so I'm willing to buy stuff on the support the developers principle (and I already have), but the alternate character pricing does not appear to be meeting me (or many other players) halfway on this one.

[zeroth_hour]

This is Also going to Steam and at least 5-10$ for alt is norm in there. So it has to be balanced. For me the 60$ for allts is ok. But suggestions that if you allready have normal version, then a discount to the alta only would be nice and seems more "fair" tomthose that just bought the normal version of the character. The gold cost is just fine, the real money seems to have a room to small adjustments.

I just want to see more content, so I may be more willling to support the game in a way to there. IMHO

 

If this would be a PC game, like it will be some day. The price of 40-60$ would be normal for whole game. And 4.99-9.99 to extra content like characters etc. And because Obsidian has been PC producer for a long time, these prises seems to to fair to me. In tablet world the games tends to be cheaper, but They Also Are normally more simpler that this one, so it is harder to get the balance right.

 

I'm going to say that's wrong.  $40-60 is the price for some video games, but not this type of game.  The graphics would have to be a lot better for me to consider dropping $60 for it (AAA level games are that much)

 

If I'm going to drop that much money for a game, I also expect there not to be a ton of F2P grind elements in it.  Unfortunately, game studios have been promoting the double dip style of model now - Capcom's Street Fighter V is the most recent example I can think of, and even then the base game was $30 and the DLC season is around that much (even though you can grind F2P for it).  Note that Street Fighter V had a lot of people complain about an unfinished game at launch and they gave a huge single player content update.

 

The alts just are too similar to the regular characters for me to even consider giving out that much money for them.  If they had different, balanced abilities, that would actually be something worth considering.

[Longshot11]

Keep the feedback coming guys, we are watching and I'll put together something for the team.

 

In case it is not obvious we are very new with mobile and transaction based games so please vote for with your wallets and you voices! Post here, email us or tweet us. The more feedback we get the better we can address these things. I would like to stay employed and I would LOVE to be able to continue to work on Pathfinder Adventures! So keep the feedback coming.

 

Oh, boy, is THAT obvious. I've been in your shoes (and, admittedly, I've failed), so I actually find it endearing to watch you guys trying to find your footing with the IAP pricing, like a newborn foal. But it's great you're willing to take feedback from your hardcore audience (both paying and F2P), maybe that'll help you get on the right track. My input has a lot of similarities with what a lot of other have already said, but here it is for reference:

 

• you should disregard the feedback of players who haven't purchased at least the RotR Bundle (you probably know that) – I'm not saying it to disparage the F2P players, but they are obviously not the target of the Alts, and it would likely be all the same to them if those Alts are priced at $10, $5 or $1

• I bought the RotR bundle. Before the Alt update, I have given it some thought how much would I be willing to pay for the Alts – I think I'd be willing to go as high as $25 for ALL Alts, but at this price point I'd be doing so purely with the idea of supporting you. A lot of *paying* players are a lot more economically-minded, and wouldn't pay if they're not feeling they're getting their money's worth. That's OK if you're aiming the Alts at Whales (extremely-high disposable income players – who are also likely to “pay and forget”, instead of barraging the forums with pricing comments) only, but as someone already mentioned – you might be more likely to make more money from more players at a lower price point. You have your metrics, ultimately, but my guess is the latter option would work better for you.

• For the “more players paying less” approach – the individual Alts should be priced in an 'impulse buy' range. I'm not that familiar with American purchasing capabilities (and it obviously varies between states and social status), but I'd wager anything above $5 per Alt is jumping the shark. Personally, I'd go for $2.99 per Alt (and maybe a $24.99 - $28.99 bundle)

• Needless to say, when the Alt update came, I found the pricing unconvincing, and I wouldn’t be spending any $ instead of $25 (I'm not mad or even disappointed about it – as I said, it's painfully obvious what you're trying to do, and if it works for you, i.e. it makes another Pathfinder app more likely – it's everybody's win)

• Throwing in the base characters as bonus for the Alts is a terrible decision. You might think of it as 'bonus', but basic human psychology turns that into 'punishment' for your already existing paying player base. You might be thinking “but hey, this is incentive for new players, not old” - but then again, new paying players would STILL find a better value in purchasing the RotR Bundle – so they automatically again fall in the 'punished' camp. It's a paradox, I know, but you'd be seeing a lot less complaints if you DIDN'T include the 'free' base characters (and you'd likely get a grand total of 0 feedbacks that say 'this price is high for an alt, but I'd buy it if they gave me the base char also!”)

• I won't comment much on your Barbarian, Paladin, etc 'thematic' bundles – suffice to say they're totally not worth it for me and I haven't even considered getting one of them, even “to support the devs”. Judging from the forum posts though, some people bought them so your metrics know if you're getting what you're looking for. Again, a bundle that would work for 'ME' is somewhere in the impulse buy range, and one that gives me a 'specific thing I want' (i.e. promo cards and special dice). If you offer me 'bundle chests', I don't see that as 'I'm paying $X for these cards and dice, AND I'm getting some Chests on top”, I'm seeing it as “I'm asked to pay for the cards and dice I WOULD buy, but I also have to pay extra for these Chests I DON'T want”

• as mentioned by some people way back at launch – I think it would've been better if you had your base characters purchasable with “REAL MONEY ONLY”, somewhere in the $1-$5 range. Your game is worth it, and the 'free' characters you give at start should be enough for players to test the game concept and decide if they want to buy in (whether by RotR Bundle or by buying characters piecemeal). Ideally, you could give players a chance to chose their 2 free characters – so they can test the water with their preferred heroes. But when it comes to re-playability – they would inevitably come to a purchase. I understand how this may not have meshed well with your multiplayer plans, though.

 

Finally, all of the above is ultimately influenced by the perceived stability of your product. When the Alt update released, I hit the forums before I even opened the app. After reading up on the Morgriv debacle – I just decided it's not worth the trouble, and now (one hotfix later), I'm still waiting for at least one 'other' update, and for forum feedback on it, before I decide to risk the characters I've spend so many hours building up (ex: I read that my Merisiel will now 'again' be broken, unable to recharge her 'Inspired Dexterity' blessings). So, even if the Alt bundle was in my price range – you would still have gotten $0 from me at this point in time.

 

That's about it. I hope you guys manage to find your stride and have a great 2017!

[Sines314]

• you should disregard the feedback of players who haven't purchased at least the RotR Bundle (you probably know that) – I'm not saying it to disparage the F2P players, but they are obviously not the target of the Alts, and it would likely be all the same to them if those Alts are priced at $10, $5 or $1

 

Be a little careful there. While there's definitely merit into not listening to pure free to play players, don't forget that the RotR bundle isn't the only basic thing to spend money on. When I started playing last week, there were two special bundles (Valeros + 5000 gold and 20,000 gold, $5 each) that allowed me to obtain the entire storyline as well as the four champion bundle and one other choice (or more, since I don't need to buy the final adventure right now) for $10. As there is little need to have more than 6 characters before you finish the game the first time, this deal was perfectly fine for me up front. I've also purchased the Jingle Bundle (or whatever it was called) to support the game and get some chests early. I'd happily spend a few more bucks (up to and exceeding the $25 for RotR bundle) but there's nothing else all that tempting. I'm interested in some of the alts, but they're just too expensive.

 

That being said, I think both of those specials are completely out of the store, at which point the RotR becomes a key purchase. However, I think there should be more cheap entry point options. Might I suggest a beginners bundle which provides the player Valeros and Ezren (with Meri and Kyra, they'll have the standard Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard party) and unlocks the first three chapters. With 4 characters of varying specialties to try out, and three adventures to try out they'll have plenty to get them into the game, and more than enough time to decide how they like it. I chose the first three chapters because it's at the end of those that you get a role card. I figure that little enticement should really whet the players interest in playing more. However, cutting it down to the first 2 adventures and $5 isn't a bad idea if we want to avoid breaking that intimidating $5 purchase line.

 

Price that at ~$8 and reduce the price of the RotR by $8 (or perhaps slightly less) should they buy it later. Players might still wish to buy the bundle up front, in exchange for the promos, or different characters (and the ability to run a 6 person party). This offers a non-intimidating 'entry' option that offers a more app-level cost, and gives the player enough to get invested in the game. Even if they end up not being all that interested, better to have their $8 than to not have their $25. The only potential downside here is the loss of money from players who would the whole $25 bundle, but won't if they can buy the $8 bundle and f2p grind from there. However, I suspect you'll entice a lot more people with your more comfortable entry point.

 

As it stands right now, I probably wouldn't have gotten into the game if my only option were the RotR bundle. I just don't get to try enough out for free, and while I could have made smaller purchases, the fact that any purchase of RotR Bundle material I made before hand would be wasted should I choose to buy the bundle. It created a situation where I felt I had to either not play the game, or to go all in. The two $5 bundles I purchased offered enough for me to really sink into the game. Perhaps, as an alternative to a starter bundle, you could implement a system to decrease the price of the RotR bundle for everything in it you already own. So if you own half the adventures and half the characters, the bundle sells for $12.50. Perhaps with a minimum price (for the exclusive materials) or rounding up.

 

It's a great game, but there just doesn't appear to be a good entry point for people willing to spend money. The only option is expensive (by app standards), and you are encouraged to purchase it when you've only played with two characters and on three adventures, well before you can make a sound judgment as to what you think of the game.

[Longshot11]

 

• you should disregard the feedback of players who haven't purchased at least the RotR Bundle (you probably know that) – I'm not saying it to disparage the F2P players, but they are obviously not the target of the Alts, and it would likely be all the same to them if those Alts are priced at $10, $5 or $1

 

Be a little careful there. While there's definitely merit into not listening to pure free to play players, don't forget that the RotR bundle isn't the only basic thing to spend money on. When I started playing last week, there were two special bundles (Valeros + 5000 gold and 20,000 gold, $5 each) that allowed me to obtain the entire storyline as well as the four champion bundle and one other choice (or more, since I don't need to buy the final adventure right now) for $10...

 

Yes, apologies. I should've been more exhaustive in my bulletpoint, but what I meant is basically players without established purchasing behaviour - which may come in the form of one 'big' bundle, or several 'small' ones. Of course, there *could* be some merit in a comment "I would give you money, but everything's too expensive" (especially if there's many of those) - but I was speaking about the current app pricing - and the RotR bundle does seem like a great a value for a *paying* customer, so I quoted it in particular. Of course, $25 may still be too expensive for some people (regardless of the huge amount of content they're getting) - I think on launch some people posted they expected something like $5-10 for the whole game!?! - but then, those are obviously outside the target paying audience - even if they would pay you for a game priced within their range, you're likely to actually lose money from the people that would've payed MORE. Again, F2P pricing is an arcane science, unless maybe you have a whole team of dedicated analysts (which I don't think Obsidian does), so everything in my post is strictly "IMHO".

[Longshot11]

Also, this seems almost obligatory:

 Perhaps, as an alternative to a starter bundle, you could implement a system to decrease the price of the RotR bundle for everything in it you already own. So if you own half the adventures and half the characters, the bundle sells for $12.50. Perhaps with a minimum price (for the exclusive materials) or rounding up.

 

 

I *get* that devs maybe want to incentivize you to get 'all in', literally, but even for the devs it's probably hard to tell if they're not losing even more income by turning off lower-price-range customers.

[Pediatron]

I've actually tried it both ways -- I immediately paid for the RotR bundle when I started playing it and played through most of it (until it completely glitched out around 6.3 - see technical support thread). I used all of my gold for chests and got a bunch of extra items that make the game more enjoyable. I've always felt that the $25 was well worth the hours and hours I have gotten in play. I think most of the bundles are over-priced compared with the value of the RotR bundle.

 

While waiting for new content, I got bored so started from scratch as a free player on husband's ipad. Currently trying to get through 5.4 but keep glitching. But have enough gold to purchase AD6. I "bought" the character add on deck with gold then added Ezren and Lem to round out my party. I haven't bought any chests and I haven't spend a cent (although a few of the bundles for newbies were interesting -- but I saw this as an "experiment."  It was in some ways harder, but actually more fun to slowly earn content rather than wait months for something new, then blow through it in a day or two. I miss all the cool treasure chest stuff I have in my paid game and would have preferred Valeros over Amiri as my fighter -- but was never worth the gold and the leveling time to switch.

 

With this comparison, I really believe the free to play aspect of this game is way to generous. It is just too easy to get all of the relevant content without spending a dime. I think that there should be enough free to decide whether the game is worth paying for, but don't give it all away. I am guessing that many of the free players just see it as a challenge to "earn" their game through playing, but would have paid something if that was their only option.