Starting Stats + Conversations

[Velkar]

Hi,

 

I've tried to play PoE multiple times and haven't really got amazingly far... but I'm determined to do it. Making a new character now that the expansions are out, I wanted to try a Rogue on Hard difficulty who can have a lot of dialogue choices without being a burden in combat.

 

I was thinking of these stats:

 

Might 14 ( For more damage. I don't really want to be doing the physical intimidation dialogue options. I'd consider dropping it to 12. )

Cons 4 ( As I understand, this has always been a dump stat. )

Dex 14 ( I don't think there's much dialogue for this, but I can't imagine a rogue without dex. )

Per 18 ( Accuracy for more crits & dialogue stuff. )

Int 14 ( Increased duration of the many disables/DoTs I think rogues have, plus conversation options )

Res 14 (For dialogue stuff. The stat alone seems quite useless for rogues, though)

 

So yeah, any advice? I don't necessarily want to follow some sort of full build, but just to have starting stats correct enough that I can make a character good in combat and have access to dialogue choices that would suit the typical smart & charismatic thief.

 

Much appreciated.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Velkar

[JerekKruger]

Rogue is perhaps the least Might dependent damage dealer. This is because the % damage increase from Might is additive with other % damage increases (which the Rogue gets lots of), not multiplicative. For example, suppose your Rogue has Might 15 (+15% damage) and is sneak attacking (+50% damage), and let's suppose he hits for a base damage of 10, then he will actually do 16.5 (10*(1+0.15+0.15)) damage before DR reduction is applied, and not 17.25 (10*1.15*1.5). As such the bonus damage from Might will quickly get dwarfed by other damage bonuses, and it might be better to keep Might at around 10 and raise other stats instead.

 

The counterpoint to this is Fortitude is probably the most important defence, so if you have average Might and low Constitution you're going to have terrible Fortitude. If you're planning to use a ranged weapon then this is less of a problem, but if you're planning on a melee Rogue then I'd suggest at least keeping Constitution at 8 (preferably 10) and perhaps not lowering Might to 10.

 

Rogue's are also not particularly Intellect dependent. Yes, they have some attacks that cause afflictions which will last longer with higher Intellect, but they have no AoE abilities and there are other classes better suited to debuffing. I'd tend to focus more on increasing your crit chance (high Perception and, I think, some Rogue abilities do this) since if you crit, as well as doing an extra 50% damage (additive again) any affliction you cause lasts 1.5 times as long. I'd probably go with Intellect of 8, but I don't like dumping stats all the way, you could probably go all the way down if you don't mind doing so.

 

If you're planning on fighting in melee then having a few points of Resolve can help make you a less appealing target for the AI's target selection algorithm, so I would say 14 is a nice sweet spot. If you're planning on going ranged then you're right that Resolve is much less important.

 

Here's what I might go with:

 

Melee Rogue

 

Mig 10

Con 10

Dex 18

Per 16

Int 8

Res 14

 

Ranged Rogue

 

Mig 14

Con 8

Dex 18

Per 18

Int 8

Res 10

 

Now, I realise this doesn't tick all the dialogue attributes boxes so you might want to tweak things. I'd suggest that it's better to pick one of two dialogue attributes to focus on and not to worry about the others. In general the special dialogue options unlocked by attributes won't give you anything more than different responses: don't expect super powerful item rewards gated behind them. You might sometimes be able to save some money, but honestly money is a non-issue by the mid game.

 

If, however, you are set on keeping more dialogue attributes high then you certainly can. If you're planning on playing with a party then, on hard, the game is fairly forgiving and you definitely don't need to min-max at all. Honestly the only place where min-maxing is (arguably) mandatory is solo PotD. If I were modifying your attribute spread I'd probably go with

 

Mig 10

Con 8

Dex 16

Per 16

Int 14

Res 14

 

Especially since you've said you don't plan on using Might dialogue options very often. This will work fine for both ranged and melee.

[Braven]

Con was sort of a dump stat in version 1, but since patch 2.*, it has gotten a lot better.  It now increases health/endurance by 5% instead of 3% that it originally did.  Whether you need it or not depends a lot on if you plan on getting hit a lot in combat.  If you plan to sit back with a crossbow or gun, it is not needed very much.  If you prefer to be in the thick of battle or wear light armor, then it is a lot more helpful particularly since rogues have low health to begin with.  Very low con also puts you in range of being one-shot from an enemy spell.

 

I generally find Intelligence to be one of the lowest priorities for rogues when only considering their abilities because the attack debuffs they do are not that good anyways (mostly you use them for the full-attack, and followup sneak attacks).  They are single target only and other than the blinding one, they don't really hinder the enemy much.  Many rogue abilities don't use intelligence at all.  Also, rogues do so much damage that their target is usually dead before the longer duration plays a role.  I think intelligence is most useful if you also plan on taking the veteran's recovery talent or if you plan to use items with cast spells.  There are some great ones that can heal and charm enemies.   I think traditional rogues would dabble with magical items.

 

Starting stats really depend on how you want to play the character.  I don't think there is any really wrong way to allocate stats as long as you adjust your play-style and equipment to have synergy with your stats.  Like if you have very low CON, you really have to be careful with positioning and avoiding enemy attacks or you will die a lot.   I wouldn't worry too much about having high Might.  While it increases damage a little, it doesn't increase damage that much relatively because of how additive damage modifiers work and the fact that Rogue's have "sneak attack".  While it is pretty good early in the game, it becomes rather negligible later in the game.  Personally, I would consider dumping it completely if you don't get the Veteran's Recovery talent or endurance regeneration items.  The CON would be more helpful.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Braven

[rheingold]

Constitution used to be a dump stat, now it's much more useful. I wouldn't drop con on a melee rogue, they have bad health/endurance and deflection to start with. Also fortitude is pretty important. If the rogue is going to be ranged then you could get away with it. I'd drop might and perception. Might 10, perc 15 con 10 resolve 15. Resolve is the most important dialogue stat. And rogues don't need might for damage or perception for accuracy as much as other classes. This way you'd have high Int, perc, resolve (with items) for dialogue, roleplay and not keel over when someone looks at you.

 

Edit: type waaaay to slow on a touchscreen, most of the above has been covered already.

Edited November 25, 2016 by rheingold

[Boeroer]

I have a question: melee or ranged rogue?

Because this makes a huge difference. A melee rogue with dumped CON will be really frustrating because he will get knocked out very quickly in combat. A ranged rogue with dumped CON would be OK.

[Velkar]

Thanks for all of your help!

 

Going to go with

 

Mig 10

Con 8

Dex 15

Per 16

Int 14

Res 15

 

For when I'm actually increasing the stats via level-up, are there any 'caps' for the attributes I'm taking for dialogue?

E.g. Is there any point taking Res above 15, or Int above 14, if I'm only getting them for dialogue in the first place? Or should I just pump all my gained stats into Dex/Per?

[JerekKruger]

You don't raise your attributes through levelling up in PoE. The only way to raise your attributes (permanently) is through gear and a few quests. You can also raise your stats temporarily with resting bonuses from inns and an ability your main character learns later in the game (also from buffs in combat, but most of them can't be cast outside of combat).

 

Generally speaking, there are relatively few dialogue options that require more than 16 in any attributes to choose, and perhaps only one or two for each stat requiring more than 18.

[Braven]

Resolve has a couple very high requirement conversation options, but they don't impact the game at all if you miss them (and they are more intimidation focused anyways).  I don't think you need more than 16 for any conversations that actually has any kind of consequences.  If you start with 14, you can easily get to the stats you need with equipment.  Even a temporary buff is good enough.  Worst case, you see the conversation option and you can reload a save game and change equipment or eat some food or something to get the conversation if it is important to you.  There is also a story-related ability you can get that temporarily raises all stats by 2.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Braven

[JerekKruger]

Resolve has a couple very high requirement conversation option, but the result of them is just flavor text; nothing that impacts the game at all.  I don't think you need more than 16 for any conversations that actually has consequences.  If you start with 14, you can easily get 16 with items.

 

Aren't most locked dialogue options simply flavour text? I can think of a few situations where you can save money, but nothing particularly significant.

[Braven]

Yes, most are just for flavor, or provide a very short-term benefit.  Some allow you to avoid fights.  A couple conversation options with stats are "traps" that actually have a bad outcome.  A couple of the the toughest boss battles in the game can be avoided with conversation options that have stat requirements (in the expansions).  Also, there is one (good) quest-related talent that has a stat requirement in the second expansion, though by then you should have no problem buffing it up if you desire that quest result.  If you know where they are, you can just temporarily buff your stats with food/drugs/prostitutes/items, or spend a couple thousand gold to retrain to those stats and then retrain back.

 

There are also some items you can't get without high Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution.  But they are not very good/important items.  I believe you need relatively high dexterity in order to get one of the durgan ore pieces, which might be beneficial for a full party.

 

Sadly, almost all the time, the options you choose in conversations are 100% role playing and make no difference at all (at least if you are not a paladin or priest).  Like most role playing games, Pillars gives the illusion of choice when really all the options have the same net result.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Braven

[rheingold]

There are a couple of resolve checks which can make a difference, both of them require 16 resolve, easy enough to get.

Both white March pt 1 : injured white wolf, and awakened dwarf miner. Those are the only 2 I can think for where there are consequences.

Not sure about the LLengrath requirements though, that also makes a real difference between fighting her or not.