Provisional Builds

[Jojobobo]

So I thought I’d make a thread for provisional, mostly untested builds so people can get them out their sooner and other people can have a crack at them. The reasons for doing this are that testing builds can take a lot of time, when really it can be nicer to share the love and let people play them sooner rather than later – and warping to just do boss fights can be a little unrewarding in terms of a test. Additionally, these builds may be a work in progress – you have a lot of ideas but there’s just one or two areas that you’re not sure on and so you want some advice to shape the build. Lastly, you might just be horribly impatient or want to stake your claim on a novel idea before one of the other brain-boxes on the forum discovers the same secret as you – or any combination of the above.

 

For the builds themselves, I think most of the key details should be there – essential talents and abilities/spells, equipment and attributes. The ones I’m going to post are going to be pretty much class build level with all equipment and what to take at what level – I’ve even written most of the class builds for some of these already – but less detail than this is perfectly fine so long as you hit the key points. I also think by posting in this thread people reserve the right for a proper class build at some point, collaborations are fine as with myself and Boeroer’s that I helped a little on but they should be agreed in advance, purely so no ones’ toes are trodden on. I guess if you want to take some ideas from a build, but also change it a lot to make it pretty much your own class build then feel free – but as a point of courtesy it’d probably be good to let the original ideas man or woman know.

 

So without further ado, I present three of my own based for solo play. Playing solo means it’s going to be a long while before every detail is thoroughly tested so I thought I’d let you people have a go with them. Plus, there’s my egregious impatience Here we go:

 

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Working title(s): The Incredible Punching Man, or maybe the Pugilist

 

Class: Barbarian

 

Concept: If you couldn’t tell, an unarmed Barbarian

 

Details in spoiler tags…

 

 

 

Why did I make the build: I have a strange fascination with unarmed builds in RPG games, the idea of punching massive monsters to death has instant appeal. While I don’t mind the eastern inspired Monks as a lot of people do (not everything has to be Eurocentric), they don’t exactly scream brutal melee brawler – more like finesse-based martial artist. An unarmed Barbarian fits the bill entirely.

 

Why is the build a good idea: (A) unarmed attacks are very fast with Two Weapon Style, hitting extremely rapidly in plate. (B) The base damage at level 16 with Sandals of the Forgotten Friar is huge, and scales with Might massively (this build tops out at 38 Might with Lyrinia's Boon and Greater Frenzy, a superb great sword does 32-46 damage in that range, fists do 40-46, and hit way way faster). © All damage modifiers, as well as graze/hit/crit, scale the base fist damage only – this sounds like a bad thing but it means a Barbarian can graze people with Carnage and still do only very slightly less than that 40-46 damage range. (D) Novice’s Suffering does better damage than Transcendent Suffering at a base level, with more accuracy (+16 dam +20 acc vs. +12 dam +18 acc). (E) While monks can do damage in an area with Torment’s Reach, it’s a 50% crushing lash; Barbarian’s essentially do a full attack, incredibly fast, against everyone – and so can be considered the better unarmed group fighter, losing out on the better single target damage the Monk has due to making his fists lashable.

 

Bottom line, you have super-fast attacks that don’t care how bad your accuracy is – and do damage on par with a two-hander. Certainly after the 3.04 sabre nerf, I’d say this build will have about as good a DPS as you could ask for – made even better in that you don’t have to worry about trying for crits, you can just graze instead. With HoF this means you should do 80-90 multiplied by the number of people surrounding you extremely consistently - yikes. This idea has been discussed on the forums before, but it was dismissed – hopefully I’ve demonstrated its viability?

 

Race/culture:

 

Coastal Aumaua/Living Lands

 

Attributes (start/final without situational buffs):

 

Might 21/30 (Maegfolc Skull, Galawain’s Boon, Gift from the Machine, Caed Nua resting bonus)

Con 9/9

Dex 17/20 (Finreah’s Grace)

Per 3/4 (Song of the Heavens)

Int 18/22 (Gywn’s Band of Union)

Res 10/10

 

Rationale – To maximize DPS, unarmed as mentioned has ridiculous base damage so Might needs to be as high as possible. Grazes do near as much damage as hits/crits, so Per isn’t needed (I toyed with an interrupt build, but then you need high Per and to be wasting talents on Gallant's Focus and Interrupting Blows ideally, so I didn’t bother). Res left at base – didn’t want to dump and risk interrupts which I experienced with a different Barb.

 

Abilities/Talents (notes next to any surprise picks):

 

1 – Frenzy

3 – Savage Defiance

5 – Bloodlust

7 – Blood Thirst

9 – One Stands Alone Wild Sprint (get to them mages) 

11 – HoF

13 – Dragon Leap

15 – Thick Skinned One Stands Alone (picked for the practical Flanked Immunity, not for the damage bonus which doesn’t really apply to unarmed)

 

2 – Novice’s Suffering

4 – WF Peasant (just to make sure my accuracy isn't absolutely terrible)

6 – Vet’s Recovery

8 – Two Weapon Style

10 – Vulnerable Attack

12 – Greater Frenzy

14 – Snake’s Reflexes

16 – Deep Pockets/Barbaric Blow (see Dr <3 below)/choice

 

Notable extras: Second Skin, Galawain’s Boon, Gift from the Machine, Song of the Heavens

 

Equipment: Finreah’s Grace, Sandals of the Forgotten Friar, Gwyn’s Band of Union, Ring of Protection, Ryona’s Vambraces, Sanguine Plate (Durganized, Legendary, Crush Proofed), Looped Rope.

 

Issues needing to be ironed out with testing: The Alpine Dragon is crush immune, so there’s that (I'll try a spear, I guess). Potentially 90 accuracy with 80 for Carnage may not be good enough end game to even graze, I'll have to wait and see.

 

 

 

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Working title: The Spry Scorpion (fast, yet defensive, with a sting)

 

Class: Rogue

 

Concept: All-rounder stun-locking Rogue (stun on crit durations fixed 3.04)

 

Details in spoiler tags…

 

 

 

Why did I make the build: Full tank Rogues (i.e. The Yellow Flash) while great builds don’t have enough going on in solo to make them feel “Rogue-y” – in party play they can easily use other members’ CC for Deathblows. By using a weapon for Stun-locking, Deathblows come easily and yet they can still have many of the perks of a full Rogue tank (Riposte, etc.). Plus all tanks of any kind tend to use Drawn in Spring, it’s nice to change it up a little, and further the build makes use of some Rogue classics – like their natural high base accuracy (great for the Stun on crit) and 40% hit to crit conversion with Dirty plus Vicious Fighting and a Durganized weapon (again, great for the Stun on crit).

 

Why is the build a good idea: Good enough defences, good single target damage, a reasonably fast attacker – a nice all round package, distinct from other melee fighters and suitably Rogue-y.

 

Race/culture:

 

Wild Orlan/Whatever (nothing is maxed, so pick what Culture you like)

 

Attributes (start/final without situational buffs):

 

MIG: 14/21 (Garodh’s Chorus, Caed Nua resting bonus, Gift from the Machine)

CON: 16/17 (Rymyrgand’s Boon)

DEX: 11/15 (Viettro’s Formal Footware)

PER: 10/13 (Elryn’s Jacket, Song of the Heavens)

INT: 14/18 (Gwyn’s Band of Union)

RES: 13/13

 

Rationale – Might 21 hits 4 damage Deep Wounds. Con 17 gives 300+ endurance at level 16. Dex 15 and Int 18 allow for chaining of Stun on a hit roll for the Stun effect with Cladhalíath (with everything Durganized, with Cautious Attack active – testing was with We Toki which should hit at the same rate according to MaxQuests’s thread). Early game you can get 14 Dex (Finreah’s Grace) 19 Int (Caed Nua bonus, Hermit’s Hat) easily to also chain in robes with Cautious Attack not active, and mid game you can hit 14 and 14 with everything Durganized to chain, again so long as Cautious Attack isn’t active. 13 Per gives 110 level 16 accuracy with Cladhalíath and the recommended equipment and talents/abilities, 13 Res gives 115 level 16 Deflection and 84 Concentration – 20 and 50 higher than an Ondrite Tidalfists’ accuracy and Interrupt on crit respectively on PotD upscaled.

 

Abilities/Talents (notes next to any surprise picks):

 

1 – Crippling Strike (Dragons aren’t immune to Hobbling, and two per encounter is better than one)

3 – Reckless Assault

5 – Deep Wounds

7 – Adept Evasion

9 – Riposte

11 – Dirty Fighting

13 – Deathblows

15 – Withering Strike

 

2 – Veteran’s Recovery

4 – Weapon and Shield Style

6 – Weapon Focus Peasant

8 – Superior Deflection

10 – Envenomed Strike / Wound Binding (testing needed to see if Wound Binding is necessary)

12 – Vicious Fighting

14 – Deflecting Assault

16 – Cautious Attack

 

Notable extras: Merciless Hand, Rymyrgand’s Boon, Gift from the Machine, Song of the Heavens

 

Equipment: Cladhalíath (Stunning, Vicious, Superb, Durgan-Refined, Freezing Lash), Badgradr’s Barricade (Superb, Durgan-Reinforced), Elryn’s Jacket (Legendary, Durgan-Reinforced), Cape of the Master Mystic, Looped Rope, Gwyn’s Band of Union and Ring of Protection, Gauntlets of Accuracy or Rabbit Fur Gloves, Garodh’s Chorus (Retaliation).

 

Rationale – Fairly standard defensive gear for the most part. Cladhalíath should do a lot of damage with Deathblows and Vicious, Elryn’s Jacket gives more status for Deathblows on top of Sever the Soul, Crippling Strike, Weakening Strike and whatever flanking you can muster. Accuracy vs. Rabbit Fur really needs testing, maybe 105 accuracy is enough so Rabbit Fur is better. Retaliation Garodh’s Chorus means you do Deep Wounds to anyone who hits you with Retaliate, an easy way to grind down your opponents. Though the Yellow Flash build suggests to not use a status on crit weapon – to me this sounds like less damage overall when you do crit so I think it is valid with Riposte. Though Elryn’s Jacket is rather light armor, late game your defences make high DR much less necessary – and certainly early game you can be using plate to shore up DR until you think the defences are adequate.

 

Issues needing to be ironed out with testing: The Alpine Dragon is stun immune, so possibly use We Toki. I guess this build might not be sturdy enough to survive well so possibly Wound Binding is needed (Envenomed Strike fits the scorpion idea much better though). We Toki may be a better pick overall, because of inherent +crit damage. Overall however I think this build is really workable.

 

 

 

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Working title(s): The Mirror Man, or maybe the Bulletproof Monk

 

Class: Monk

 

Concept: A ranged reflector Monk full tank

 

Details in spoiler tags…

 

 

 

Why did I make the build: I wanted a full tank, but I also didn’t want it to be dull. Reflecting almost every ranged attack back to source sounds like fun, Monks are more or less best suited due to Soul Mirror – so that’s what I went with. The dream would be reflecting Cleansing Flame back on Thaos and watching him kill himself

 

Why is the build a good idea: Monks don’t need to rely on talents in order to have good damage output, so going full tank is much easier than other classes. The 150/150 Deflection/Reflex against ranged attacks/spells before buffing should make you nigh on impenetrable – and help get those all important reflections (remembering that Soul Mirror only reflects half the time on misses, so huge defences are essential). Monks also are inherently ridiculously tanky, with Iron Wheel making their DR sky high, another edge they have over the other classes.

 

Race/culture:

 

Wild Orlan/Aedyr

 

Attributes (start/final without situational buffs):

 

MIG: 14/18 (Gift from the Machine, Garodh’s Chorus)

CON: 13/13

DEX: 8/12 (Viettro’s Formal Footware)

PER: 20/21 (Song of the Heavens)

INT: 3/3

RES: 20/26 (+2 armor enchant, Berath’s Boon, Caed Nua resting bonus)

 

Rationale – Con hits 300+ endurance with Gift, which I like on a tank. The huge Resolve allows you to reach the insane Deflection scores discussed. You’re not taking any kind of Weapon Focus, so a decent Per is a great help - and it’s more important to actually be able to hit which is why it is prioritized over Dex. The rest goes into Might for some damage and increased Fortitude, Int is more or less completely pointless and can be improved into the 10 region situationally for boss fights anyway.

 

Abilities/Talents (notes next to any surprise picks):

 

1 – Torment’s Reach

3 – Turning Wheel

5 – Soul Mirror

7 – Duality of Mortal Presence

9 – Crucible of Suffering

11 – Iron Wheel

13 – Dichotomous Soul

15 – Resonant Touch

 

2 – Bear’s Fortitude (taking it early to take on Caed Nua’s Phantoms)

4 – Weapon and Shield Style

6 – Unstoppable/choice

8 – Snake’s Reflexes

10 – Body Control

12 – Cautious Attack

14 – Superior Deflection

16 – Deep Pockets/choice

 

Notable extras: Wild Running, Berath’s Boon, Gift from the Machine, Song of the Heavens, Flick of the Wrist, Second Skin

 

Equipment: Drawn in Spring (Legendary, Freezing Lash, Durgan-Refined) and Aila Braccia (Legendary, Durgan-Reinforced), Äru-Brekr (Superb, +2 Resolve, Durgan-Reinforced, proofing of choice), Cape of the Master Mystic, Looped Rope, Ring of Protection and Frigid Claim, Blood Testament and Garodh’s Chorus (Retaliation).

 

Rationale – Äru-Brekr and Frigid Claim give that much needed 150/150 ranged/spell defence, and Aila Braccia is of course needed to add in an essential ranged reflection component. Garodh’s Chorus adds in lashed Retaliation as Boeroer discussed in his Monkster Lasher build, a good way to get chip damage on melee attackers. Drawn in Spring, though a little bit typical on a full tank, is a necessary evil to ensure you can down your melee foes. Blood Testament adds another lash into the mix, but can be changed for something else. Probably Badgradr’s Barricade could be used in your off hand (maybe even with Drawn in Spring, using something else on the primary weapon set until ranged foes die) as it works a lot better with Torment’s Reach – giving you two attacks.

 

Issues needing to be ironed out with testing: The build may be too boring, even with the ranged reflection – something that you can only find out with play. I’m also not entirely sure what gets reflected back when – I would think Aila Braccia sends back the spell grazes while Soul Mirror sends back only half of ranged physical attack misses, but I have seen Soul Mirror send back Elryn’s Jacket Eye Strikes before when fighting against Monks (it could be that it's flagged as a ranged weapon attack as Loren Tyr has mentioned before with some spells). Lastly it could be that the defences are, ironically, too good – if you need spells to graze over missing then maybe 150 Deflection and Reflex would produce many more misses than grazes, particularly when these hit 160/170 with Defiant Resolve and Crucible of Suffering (yes, they stack). I’ll have to wait and see I guess.

 

 

 

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So there we have it! The builds are all more or less complete, they just lack testing. I’m currently focussing on the Barbarian, then I’ll try the Rogue, then I’ll either try the Monk or play Tyranny. Feedback is of course appreciated, particularly if anyone manages to get one playtested before I do.

 

As mentioned, if anyone else have a sweet, mostly fleshed out provisional build, this is the place for them – I look forward to seeing some from you fine people.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Boeroer]

The unarmed barb sounds like a lot of fun.

 

I thought about an unarmed priest because he hasn't any DMG bonuses but can get superhig MIG which works great with Novice's Suffering. And the high ACC bonus and the fact that garzing doesn't matter much works against the priest's low starting ACC without the need to use those special deity weapon talents. Maybe I'll give it a try.

 

By the way Novice's Suffering still has some issues: for example Avenging Storm doesn't work with it.

[Jojobobo]

The unarmed barb sounds like a lot of fun.

 

I thought about an unarmed priest because he hasn't any DMG bonuses but can get superhig MIG which works great with Novice's Suffering. And the high ACC bonus and the fact that garzing doesn't matter much works against the priest's low starting ACC without the need to use those special deity weapon talents. Maybe I'll give it a try.

 

By the way Novice's Suffering still has some issues: for example Avenging Storm doesn't work with it.

Hopefully there's no other unsightly bugs then. The Priest sounds fun, it'd be nice to see it in the future.

 

I guess I mainly wanted it on a Barb as both the damage and accuracy malus from Carnage don't really effect it - that and the fact Barbs have a million ways to up DPS which offsets that you can't Durganize your fists (if only you could just dunk them in hot metal, a man can dream). I have to say, playtesting it so far, punching the Valewood bears to death felt really good 

Edited October 31, 2016 by Jojobobo

[K Galen B]

Interesting, very interesting.

 

I suspect Aila Braccia reflects outright misses, not just grazes. I didn't stare at the combat log when it happened, but I'm pretty sure I saw critters blasting themselves in the face even when I took no damage. Either way, it was definitely hard to give Aila Braccia up for Little Savior, however technically superior Little Savior is. Battery Sirens politely CCing themselves! In tha face! That's almost as good as kicking them inna fork. Don't think they have a fork, though.

Edited October 31, 2016 by K Galen B

[Boeroer]

Aila Braccia has an awesome mechanic: if the enemy rolls a graze it gets converted into a miss and then reflected (100% of ranged grazes get converted). No wonder you took no damage. I can't say if Soul Mirror and Aila Barrcia work well together. Maybe Aila Braccia makes Soul Mirror obsolete - when it also reflects all misses and not only grazes. Kaylon will know, he used it a lot.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Boeroer

[K Galen B]

That definitely explains why I saw plenty of hits but don't remember any of the grazes, then.

Edited October 31, 2016 by K Galen B

[Dr <3]

Good job!

I played some time a ho a brawler barbarian quite similar to yours, was a lot of fun. Main differences were that i used even lower per ( even on potd) because you get very High acc bonus from novice suffering, and you doesn't need to crit anyway. I put all that points in constitition, for max fortitude. and i picked barbarian strike for the full attack 1/encounter mainly. I did the run until mid white march and stopped to start another project, but i will finish the run sooner or later .

 

Thums up for the rogue build, very interesting

[Jojobobo]

Thanks for the compliments, I'll definitely try and make these out in full at some point!

 

Good job!
I played some time a ho a brawler barbarian quite similar to yours, was a lot of fun. Main differences were that i used even lower per ( even on potd) because you get very High acc bonus from novice suffering, and you doesn't need to crit anyway. I put all that points in constitition, for max fortitude. and i picked barbarian strike for the full attack 1/encounter mainly. I did the run until mid white march and stopped to start another project, but i will finish the run sooner or later   .

Thanks! It was one of your posts I found when I searched to see if this idea had been made into a full build before - suffice to say you were onto a winning idea. As far as I know, Per can't be dropped any lower than three as a base - otherwise I would likely drop it further. Maybe I'll take Barbaric Blow in the level 16 slot given it's a full attack (obviously not for the useless crit damage), it's a good tip and I've edited it in as an option. I guess I would go for more Con, but this still hits the 300+ end game endurance I so love, and hopefully with the DPS it should kill foes faster than they kill me - I'll wait and see.

 

Aila Braccia has an awesome mechanic: if the enemy rolls a graze it gets converted into a miss and then reflected (100% of ranged grazes get converted). No wonder you took no damage. I can't say if Soul Mirror and Aila Barrcia work well together. Maybe Aila Braccia makes Soul Mirror obsolete - when it also reflects all misses and not only grazes. Kaylon will know, he used it a lot.

Just searching now I turned up a post of Kaylon's that details the set up (must have missed it before when I was originally looking whether people had covered this concept), seeming to imply that both Soul Mirror and Alia Braccia reflect all kinds of ranged attacks. I suppose this is just more or less putting a provisional build to that kind of concept. With 150/150 Deflection and Reflex, I can't see the build ever taking ranged damage at all - which might be boring, yet at the same time might be amusing to watch when they're reflected.

 

I also noticed a mistake I made with the Barb - I forgot to factor in Greater Frenzy into their top possible Might, which is now 38 (Frenzy and food don't stack, unfortunately). I've made the edits, but to update here as well this now means a damage range of 40-46 - and with Durganized Sanguine Plate as well as Two Weapon Style, Frenzy and Bloodlust you have almost zero recovery with Vulnerable Attack (it is zero recovery if you have Vulnerable Attack off). This build is very much a killing machine, I think any other weapon combo would be hard pressed to reach similar levels of DPS.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Jojobobo

[bigwillystyle]

I have a Barbarian MC sitting at level 11-12 range.  It was my Firebrand Barbarian, but he kind of stalled out as I hit the Abbey of the Fallen Moon.  [Mostly got bored with it] 

 

I'm a going to play this Pugilist build in the Abbey and see how it goes.  Only weakness I can see is crush immune foes ... we'll see if Superb spears can help.

[Jojobobo]

Crush immune foes TBH honest aren't too common, so I think it should do fine (and as you say, spears with their accuracy bonus can be used instead - and further they can be used single handed for even more accuracy). Let me know how it handles, I do have a save just before the Abbey with Gunslinger Chanter - but as I mentioned I don't like testing areas in a bubble because it doesn't give much of sense of how they handle the early game and it's a little dull.

 

Thinking more on Dr <3's suggestion, I would recommend taking Barbaric Blow at level 10, in time for a one-two punch with HoF at level 11. After HoF and then a Barbaric Blow, you should have both Frenzy and Bloodlust active (particularly with Blood Thirst almost guaranteeing you a second kill) allowing you to go on a minimal recovery rampage.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Jojobobo]

For an update on the Barbarian build, so far through testing it's really really good. I'm going through Heritage Hill at level 8 right now and this thing just shreds Darguls - though Heritage Hill isn't terribly tricky Darguls usually do take some time to kill due to their large HP, but not with this build 

 

I think the build also has very nice progression, given the way Novice's Suffering levels up. It's very gratifying when you hit another break mark, my fists are now more accurate than fine other weapons in the Peasant group from the level 7 improvement, with a much higher minimum damage so they're much more consistent. In act I, though the fists are a little underpowered then, I still used them primarily as they do a lot of damage on graze. I swapped to a spear when it was really needed and used it one handed - against things like Trolls or Sporelings that have high crush DR, or against very high Deflection enemies like Shades and Phantoms.

 

In terms of whether Frenzy and Bloodlust and Blood Thirst all together is overkill, personally I think they seem to work extremely well. While on most dual-wielding Barb builds you're probably going to achieve zero recovery due to Durganizing your weapons and so Blood Thirst isn't needed - here you can't so any extra recovery waiver is nice. It also allows you to pull off a very cool manoeuvre, where you kill two enemies in a mob to activate Bloodlust, and then at the same time you use your zero recovery from Blood Thirst to activate Frenzy. This allows for a maximum overlap of the two effects, and turns you into an insane DPS powerhouse for a reasonable duration (particularly when you're still getting recovery waivers, in addition to your already minimal recovery). It's very nice.

 

I thought people might be interested to hear how it was shaping up, so there you go. Suffice to say, this will definitely be a class build in the nearish future. As I keep mentioning, if anyone has any other builds that are fleshed out - post them up. It is good to sometimes discuss builds as you're building them.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Boeroer]

That sounds really cool. I take it that you don't have Sandals of the Forgotten Friar yet?
Would you say that with Bloodlust+Bloodthirst+Frenzy it would be wise to put on Ryonas Vambraces and also take Vulnerable Attack for 8 DR bypass (and maybe adding Garodh's Chorus and Barbaric Retaliation for double retaliation that is not crush?) - or would you think that it's better to go for more speed and take Gauntlets of Swift Action and no Vuln. Attack? Since you only can boost your damage significantly via MIG and scaling maybe the DR bypass is worth the slower attacks? I mean Blood Thirst takes away some of it. What do you think? Or even go for Glittering Gauntlets (if you manage to get them) for the AoE dazing maybe?

Do you know how talents like Wilder Hunter behave with the fists' damage? Do they also only raise the whimpy base damage or maybe the bonus of Novice's Suffering, too, like MIG does? Same with the Bartender's Ring? If those things work differently from talents like Savage Attack they might be a good pick...?

 

 

I'm fleshing out a wizard pike build atm because the testing of Spirit Lance + Knockdown + Runner's Wounding Shot + Envenomed Strike + Clear Out against bounty parties went so extremely well that I decided to make a build out of it, purely focused on 2h melee. Arcane Veil + Wizard's Double is really good in the early game, too - so it's not too hard to solo with a pike as a wizard even in the early game.

[peddroelm]

If the unarmed damage bonus from Novice's Suffering works like the unarmed damage bonus from Transcended Suffering used to work (and might still work this way I just haven't test it lately) this damage it is added separately and is modified ONLY by might.

 

Going from memory, again, unarmed damage for non-monks had very low base damage and didn't scale with level ups.

And since all melee damage modifiers (graze, crit, carnage, OSA, various hater perks,  etc etc etc) are summed and applied to the base damage - they didn't end up having much of an effect in the end...

[rheingold]

The barb is interesting - but are you going to be able to hit anything with 3 perc? I see you don't take savage attack? Presuming the accuracy hit would be to much for this build. I'm not sure about the maths, wouldn't raising perception and taking savage attack boost damage?

[Boeroer]

No. Not much. Only raising MIG and speed will do more damage.

Savage Attack only gives you +20% of the really whimpy base damage of fists. Novice's Suffering's bonus comes after that. So you would trade -5 ACC for an extremely low DMG buff.

The same reason why 3 PER works: grazes only reduce the base damage of fists. But the bonus from Novice's Suffering then gets added. So there's nearly no difference between graze and even crit. This lets the build do very consistent damage.

As peddroelm said, only MIG has an effect on the bonus of Novice's Suffering. I never tested the hater talents with NS, so I was wondering if they may be an exception.

Another plus for Ryona's Vambraces: they turn misses to grazes: fine thing for this build.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Boeroer

[peddroelm]

Speaking of testing - I might wanna re-check some things , including DOTs .. 

 

Have the damage mechanics testing methods gotten any easier - or will I still have to do it the "hard way" ? ( eliminate base weapon damage RNG, enabling full damage log via breakpoints .. etc  )?

[K Galen B]

It took me a while to figure out where my sensation of déjà vu was coming from - the Pugilist's build mechanics are surprisingly similar to a punchy-warrior build from the "other" PoE game, Path of Exile. One unusual choice (item or talent) is the source of most damage and this leaves more room for tanky/utility stuff. Neat.

[Boeroer]

It's a bit sad though that you need to sacrifice a talent point in order to get acceptable unarmed damage. It would have been nice to be able to loot some more stuff for unarmed fighting. THings like the sandals, maybe knuckle dusters or pit fighter gloves that give you a second damage type or wounding or stun on crit or something fancy like that. Would also allow for enchanting.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Boeroer

[Ben No.3]

Spiked brass knuckles with crush/pierce damage... That would indeed be awesome

 

And a unique one with DR bypass. And another unique one "pitfighter's knuckle dusters" with wounding. And "robber's knuckles" with increased damage against enemies with expensive armour.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Boeroer]

Rofl - the last one sounds like some serious fun.  Should be connected to Skaen.  

Edited November 3, 2016 by Boeroer

[K Galen B]

I generally support stuff that offers new mechanics or more options but I don't like 'unarmed' weapons in most games. Too much cognitive dissonance in that concept I guess.

[Ben No.3]

Pffff...

 

I say we do a petition for the inclusion of whips (speed boost) and brass knuckles (two damage types)...

[Jojobobo]

That sounds really cool. I take it that you don't have Sandals of the Forgotten Friar yet?

Would you say that with Bloodlust+Bloodthirst+Frenzy it would be wise to put on Ryonas Vambraces and also take Vulnerable Attack for 8 DR bypass (and maybe adding Garodh's Chorus and Barbaric Retaliation for double retaliation that is not crush?) - or would you think that it's better to go for more speed and take Gauntlets of Swift Action and no Vuln. Attack? Since you only can boost your damage significantly via MIG and scaling maybe the DR bypass is worth the slower attacks? I mean Blood Thirst takes away some of it. What do you think? Or even go for Glittering Gauntlets (if you manage to get them) for the AoE dazing maybe?

Do you know how talents like Wilder Hunter behave with the fists' damage? Do they also only raise the whimpy base damage or maybe the bonus of Novice's Suffering, too, like MIG does? Same with the Bartender's Ring? If those things work differently from talents like Savage Attack they might be a good pick...?

No, no Sandals of the Forgotten Friar yet - I usually do a lot of Act II before starting the White March Pt I, that Stalwart fight is tough solo. Concerning recovery, I think it's fairly negligible, even with Vulnerable Attack. Let's see:

 

Recovery for two weapon style is 0.5 as a base. Durganizing your armor gives Sanguine Plate +0.35 recovery, and Vulnerable Attack adds a further +0.2. That's 1.05 to overcome.

 

Using Ryona's Vambraces there's: 1.33 (Frenzy) x 1.2 (Bloodlust) + 0.2 (Two Weapon Style) - 1 = 1.80 with rounding. But, you can just turn off Vulnerable Attack when you need to, and then you're looking at 0.05 recovery next to nothing.

 

With Gauntlets of Speed you're at 1.04 reduction (again, with rounding) - leaving you with 0.01 recovery, practically zero. Then bear in mind these are further lowered by Dex, as is your general attack speed (a x1.3 reduction at Dex 20), and you're looking at even less of a nothing. In all likelihood, it's probably best to judge against enemy DR whether you'll need Vulnerable Attack active or not.

 

With Barb Retal, regular Retal and Glittering Gauntlets - they all roll your terrible accuracy so I don't think it's worth it. Barb Retal could easily replace Thick Skinned on this build, but I think the damage still isn't that worthwhile given that it's not going to hit most of the time and it's a bit of a drop in the ocean compared to what you're doing with your fists. I guess I'll give it a bit of a test when I get to level 16 and see how it plays out.

 

I think as pedroelm says, pretty much nothing but Might effects the damage - which is another reason not to go for Garodh's Chorus Retal as the Maegfolc Skull gives one higher. As I said, I'm currently clearing Heritage Hill and I have the Bartender's Ring - so I'll watch out for differences closely, but I've not noticed anything large. I'll also at some point check out some hater talents, but there's not a great deal of room for a lot of talents tbh - so even if they did scale it's unlikely I'd take them.

 

I'm fleshing out a wizard pike build atm because the testing of Spirit Lance + Knockdown + Runner's Wounding Shot + Envenomed Strike + Clear Out against bounty parties went so extremely well that I decided to make a build out of it, purely focused on 2h melee. Arcane Veil + Wizard's Double is really good in the early game, too - so it's not too hard to solo with a pike as a wizard even in the early game.

Sounds really cool, I look forward to seeing it fully developed - and if you need specific advice I guess here is now the place, though I'm sure you know this game better than any of us.

 

The barb is interesting - but are you going to be able to hit anything with 3 perc? I see you don't take savage attack? Presuming the accuracy hit would be to much for this build. I'm not sure about the maths, wouldn't raising perception and taking savage attack boost damage?

You have 90 accuracy end game, and seeing as you only need to graze (and you hit at an alarmingly fast rate, making up for a few misses) I think it'll be fine. I would never, ever normally advocate dumping Per, but here it should work. I'm a touch concerned about the 80 accuracy Carnage not hitting enough - but as the only thing I'd really be willing to change on the build is Snake's Reflexes for Galant's Focus (better than Accurate Carnage as it's +4 acc to your main target too), with Reflex being pretty mediocre I'd rather not.

 

What you have reminded me to do is make sure to get my Lore up to 8 so I can take Scrolls of Valour (I could just take Lore 6 and use the resting bonus, but then I compromise on juicy Might). Unlike shoddy potions of Eldritch Aim that last for next to no time, with Scrolls of Valour and my Int they'll over 20 seconds offering +15 accuracy - a stack of 5 of them should be more than enough, and honestly the 105 accuracy they'll hit is fairly decent for solo.

 

Anyway... I'll get back to it. It's great the build has so much interest, I guess people like the idea of playing a face-beating badass! I'll report anything else interesting, but I think mostly now it'll be the long grind get through most of my current playthrough.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Ben No.3]

Happy 1000st post Jojobobo(I guess)....

[Jojobobo]

I didn't even notice, I'll give myself a pat on the back. To be honest I posted a lot around here when the game was in development, so I accumulated many posts in that pointless period where everyone was rampantly speculating about every exact detail of Pillars - when I think really the devs knew what they wanted to do anyway.

 

Just tested Wilder Hunter - no dice. I set Might to 100 (with 500 Per to ensure a crit) and went and gave the Cliant Lis Xaurip a spanking, I actually rolled for less damage with the talent on a crit than when I didn't have it (both within the listed damage range for the character too, again indicating that graze/hit/crit makes no difference). I'll try with the Bartender's Ring, but I'm 99% sure there's no difference.

 

PS The best way to clear the opening encampment is to pick a Barbarian, set Int to 10000, Might to 500 and Per to 500 - one hit clears the entire map. It's quite fun if you want to get into or slightly past Cliant Lis to test, warping to different locations is such a pain.

 

EDIT: No luck with the Bartender's Ring either. In a hit on my current character I did 23 damage against a Gul, with my damage range being 20-25 (how's that for consistency?). However, seeing as the Bartender's Ring adds 20%, if the damage range was working normally the minimum I would do on a hit as far as I can tell is 24 (20 at a low RNG roll plus 20% of 20). I did also notice a Carnage graze did 19 damage, again underscoring how sweet this set up is.

 

Really this build is great for easy character design, as all you really have to care about is Might - unless you play with low Int nothing else really has a great deal of effect (you can even offset low Dex with ease with all the Barb speed bonuses). In this way you can make it as close to a pure DPS focussed build as is more or less possible, made all the better because whole groups suffer equally. I know my build isn'y zero recovery, but having a huge chunk of DR with minimal recovery is more than worth it to me - but by all means a zero recovery variant I think would be easily doable.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Jojobobo