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First playthrough questions

paladin build

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#1
december

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Hello, 

 

I am currently on my first playthrough and have a few questions I could not find any answers to. I decided to play a paladin as main character and also play with the companions you meet throughout the game to enjoy the stories. So I don't want to min-max but still be effective. I have chosen hard difficulty for now.

 

I watched a few paladin videos and liked this one very much: Pillars of Eternity: White March 2 - Tanky Paladin Build

 

It is basically a Fire Godlike paladin that focuses on tanking and providing buffs and heals for his allies. The first problem I have is that I don't want to go below 10 with any attribute. Yet there are 4 attributes useful for it. For now I thought I focus go a little higher with Resolve because to increase my defenses and also because it is used in dialogues. I tried to even out the rest. This is what I came up with now:

 

Might: 14

Constitution: 14

Dexterity: 10

Perception: 10

Intellect: 14

Resolve: 16

 

I took might for better healing. Many older guides state that Constitution is worthless even for tanks but it seems that it got buffed and +20% Endurance and Health seem to be pretty good. Then I took Intellect for a greater AoE range and buff duration and Resolve for Deflection.

What do you think about this distribution? Whether it is good surely depends on the talents I have chosen, so this is what I will go for from level 1 to 14. I am not sure yet what to take for 15 and 16 and on some abilities on the way.

 

1: Lay on Hands (heal)

2: Shielding Touch (buff)

3: Zealous Endurance (AoE buff)

4: Weapon and Shield Style

5: Flames of Devotion

6: Shielding Flames (AoE buff)

7: Reviving Exhortation

8: Cautious Attack

9: Reinforcing Exhortation (buff)

10: Greater Lay on Hands

11: Hastening Exhortation

12: Superior Deflection

13: Sacred Immolation (AoE heal and damage)

14: Scion of Flame

 

What do you guys think about it?

 

I am not sure about Hastening Exhortation. Is the speed buff a good damage increase for a melee in case I want to nuke a target quickly? If not, what could I get instead?

 

Scion of Flame seems to be nice as it increases the damage of Battle-Forged, Flames of Devotion and Sacred Immolation.

 

What should I pick for level 15 and 16? There is a lot of stuff that sounds good.

 

Aegis of Loyality: I did read that with that talent Sacred Immolation removes Charmed, Confused and Dominated effects from your allies as well. Are those debuffs often applied? Is this working as intended?

Depive the Unworthy sounds pretty powerful against bosses. Abjuration seems just as situational.

But Righteous Soul and Deep Faith look nice as well to further increase my defenses.

How useful is Behold the Martyr? Usually when a party member dies I guess it is better to just revive him or her. As my paladin is pretty tough I and I should be able to do that with Reviving Exhortation.

 

The last thing are the skills. Athletics, Lore and Survival sound interesting for my paladin. Are the Survival bonuses worth it? And how much should I put into Athletics? It seems to be useful for dialog options. And the heal I get might be useful for when I use Sacred Immolation because it does a little damage to me as well. But is it potent enough or just a waste?

Lore seems nice to get a little more options because I am able to use some scrolls as well. How would you guys distribute the skill points?

 

And one of my party members needs mechanics to spot and disarm traps and to open locks. As I only can discover traps and hidden things when in scouting mode should the party member that has Mechanics skilled also have a high Perception? I thought of skilling it either with Aloth or Edér as I get those two companions first and I will most likely keep them in my party. How high should mechanics be?

 

 

Thanks for helping me out :)

 

 

 

 



#2
Climhazzard

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Just fyi the damage from Sacred Immolation works with Aegis of Loyalty, it's a very nice ability combination.  I usually use the hand and key breastplate and take righteous soul as well.

 

The rest of that stuff is sort of preference.  I hate per/rest stuff for example.

 

Abilities I always have...

 

Lay on hands 

Reviving exhortation

Liberating exhortation

Sacred immolation

Aegis of loyalty 

Righteous soul

 

 

Ignore guides that say to dump constitution for tanks...  it kills your fortitude defense which is the number one status effect defense for your frontline.

 

Talents I'll always have...

 

Weapon and shield style

Veteran's recovery (definitely squeeze that in somewhere)

Scion of flame

Hold the line

Deep Faith

Greater lay on hands

 

Even on PotD I don't tend to stack deflection talents as long as I'm not soloing.  That's my personal preference though.  I use the Outworn Buckler so I have good defenses and accuracy, which helps melt everything with sacred immolation.  For defensive talents I'll grab deep faith then maybe bear's fortitude or snake reflexes.

 

I don't use tank and spank tactics against the dragon bosses, usually I have my monk run decoy with high movement speed.  You'll need that deflection if you want to tank them I think.  Other's probably know more about that, but I would still take superior deflection before bothering with cautious attack.


Edited by Climhazzard, 02 September 2016 - 08:50 PM.


#3
KDubya

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What you have will definitely work, the stats are balanced and will work fine. I also try not to dump anything below a ten.

 

Changes I would make but are optional:

  • Drop Cautious Attack - You are taking Superior Deflection which is +5 with no malus, +8 for -20% attack speed is a bad deal
  • I'd try and fit in a weapon focus, +6 accuracy is useful
  • Veteran's Recovery is also very nice for a tanky guy with good might, intellect and defenses. Drop Superior Deflection if needed
  • I'm not a fan of Hastening Exhortation, it is per rest and suppressed by most every other speed boost. have Pellaginna take her special speed buff after Flames of Devotion instead. it is as good but also gets an AoE.
  • Aegis of Loyalty is a great ability. Charms can be really dangerous and this takes them off the table.
  • Reviving Exhortation - I don't find myself in need of reviving my team on PotD except in some sort of super hard bounty or dragon fight and for that there are either the AoE Chanter revive or scrolls. I've always thought that if your team is getting KO'd every other fight you need better tactics :)
  • Athletics is fine with one or so. Someone should have a five or six for some scripted events but it does not have to be you. Your Lay on hands will be ten times better.
  • Mechanics needs 13 or so but again that can be someone else.
  • Lore is good at 8. Most everything needed from scrolls will work with an 8
  • Survival is good at a 14 for the +60% healing buff. There are blue pajamas (padded armor) that have +2 Survival that you can put on before camping to be able to get by with a natural 12 Survival.

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#4
Raven Darkholme

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Cautious Attack stacks with Superior Deflection, I always take both.


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#5
rheingold

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Yup second cautious attack and superior deflection for a tank obviously. Want a more all round character then drop cautious attack, but a paladin is never going to be a dps monster with or without cautious attack.

#6
KDubya

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If you are taking just one deflection boosting talent the best bang for your buck is Weapon and Shield Style - a small shield gets you +8 deflection, enchantable up to another +16 (realistically only +12 and easily a +eight  and another +6 from the style itself. At level 8 with an exceptional small shield you get +22 deflection. If you want enemies to miss you grab a shield.

 

If you want even more deflection you can grab Superior Deflection or Cautious Attack. Both gets you +5 deflection with one trading -20% attack speed for +3 deflection.

 

Are you guys really of the opinion that -20% attack speed for +3 deflection is a good deal?

 

A Paladin with a base 14 Might (could be easily a 17 with an item, 19 with food and 22 with Caed Nua resting) using an average speed weapon like a warhammer is going to hit fairly hard. This is not some 2 Might hatchet wielding vermin (Orlan), this is a heavy melee guy who can hold his own in a fight.

 

Trading -20% attack speed for +5 DR penetration is a good trade but for +3 deflection it is terrible.


Edited by KDubya, 03 September 2016 - 09:00 AM.


#7
december

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Thanks for the tips regarding abilities and talents. 

 

So I see the attack speed malus from Cautious Attacks is rather controversial. I heard that 120 Deflection is a value I should aim at on Hard difficulty. I guess I will first pick the deflection talents that don't have any negative effects and see how far I can get to that value only with those. Depending on how squishy I am I will take either take more defensive talents or supportive ones from those I am not sure of.

 

Regarding skills I got to 5 Athletics easy because I had 2 points there as class bonus. The healing bonus of Second Wind seems to be nice for now. I wonder whether it can keep up with my Endurance on higher levels. Right now it heals me for around 58%. Considering I can use it for myself after I cast Sacred Immolation and can save Lay On Hands for companions that got into trouble. Does Second Wind scale with Might as well? Perhaps I just raise Athletics so far that I can negate the damage I got when I used Sacred Immolation.

 

For now I aim at 8 Survival to get to the level 2 healing bonus. After that I was thinking to raise Lore a bit to be able to use supportive spells from scrolls. 8 points in Lore were already recommended to be able to use level 4 scrolls. Are there any scrolls of higher levels that are useful as well? Lore seems to be a really good skills to put points into.



#8
hrwd

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Oh, Paladins!

 

Your stats are ok for a defensive support.

 

Abilities:

 

Take Zealous Aim until you get Pallegina. Then respec and let her have it. Two Paladins are surprisingly effective.

Take Eye of the Storm, if for nothing, then for 5 Shock DR. It's worth it.

Hastening is...eh. I'd skip it personally.

Everything else seems ok.

 

Equipment:

 

Outworn Buckler

Belt of Blunting

Some Rapier or other(I recommend this for free +5 Acc, but you can take a Longsword or something else, sure)

Heldrik's Coat

Forgemaster's Gloves

whatever you wish from hereon in

 

That'll grant you nice utility mixed with very high tankiness and ~15 DR vs EVERYTHING. You'll also have huge Saves due to FnC...overall you can't go wrong with this.

 

Of course, if you were to take Glamfallen(Pale Elf) as that Paladin, you could theoretically have that DR in GILDED VALE(20 Fire / Frost / Crush DR{facetank those Phantoms while they hit you for 2-3dmg}, 15 Slash / Pierce / Corrode / Shock DR) ! Just lolz all around(you also free you glove slot for something else). Eder has got nothing on you ;)



#9
rheingold

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For 3 deflection, sure cautious attack would not be worth it. But for 8 deflection it's well worth a look. Add superior deflection and you get a wopping + 14 to deflection. For a paladin or chanter it's definitely something to consider, for a more dps type not so much. With high might and a sabre the paladin will hit hard but I really don't see the loss of attack speed as a bad trade off. Of course it can be toggled off and on as needed.
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#10
Raven Darkholme

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Let's not forget Attack speed malus does nothing against Sacred Immolation the paladins main damage source. :)


Edited by Raven Darkholme, 03 September 2016 - 02:16 PM.


#11
Wolken3156

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Might: 14
Constitution: 14
Dexterity: 10
Perception: 10
Intellect: 14
Resolve: 16
 
I took might for better healing. Many older guides state that Constitution is worthless even for tanks but it seems that it got buffed and +20% Endurance and Health seem to be pretty good. Then I took Intellect for a greater AoE range and buff duration and Resolve for Deflection.
What do you think about this distribution? Whether it is good surely depends on the talents I have chosen, so this is what I will go for from level 1 to 14. I am not sure yet what to take for 15 and 16 and on some abilities on the way.

That attribution spread should be fine. Since they buffed its returns, Constitution is actually a pretty important attribute now. I usually leave my Paladin's at its base and put more into Might though, since it affects the damage of Flames of Devotion and Sacred Immolation as well as the healing from Lay on Hands and Healing Chain.

 

 

1: Lay on Hands (heal)

2: Shielding Touch (buff)

3: Zealous Endurance (AoE buff)

4: Weapon and Shield Style

5: Flames of Devotion

6: Shielding Flames (AoE buff)

7: Reviving Exhortation

8: Cautious Attack

9: Reinforcing Exhortation (buff)

10: Greater Lay on Hands

11: Hastening Exhortation

12: Superior Deflection

13: Sacred Immolation (AoE heal and damage)

14: Scion of Flame

 

What do you guys think about it?

What you have should be fine tbh. Personally though I run with this, though keep in mind this is Bleak Walker so some talents are quite different.

 

1 - Flames of Devotion

2 - Weapon and Shield Style

3 - Zealous Focus

4 - Weapon Focus: Soldier

5 - Lay on Hands

6 - Remember Rakhan Field (This is a Bleak Walker only talent, probably go for a different order exclusive talent instead)

7 - Sworn Enemy

8 - Intense Flames

9 - Liberating Exhortation

10 - Deep Faith

11 - Reviving Exhortation

12 - Scion of Flame

13 - Sacred Immolation

14 - Quick Switch

15 - Coordinated Attacks

16 - Spirit of Decay

 

Quick Switch and Sworn Enemy are for taking out distant mages with an Arquebus shot, since the Paladin usually doesn't care if they get swarmed. I probably could've done without Reviving Exhortation, I only grabbed it because my Chanter had an addiction with dying... a lot. I was pretty sloppy this playthrough I'll admit.

 

I've never been a fan of Hastening Exhortation since it doesn't stack with the majority of attack speed boosts, and many classes have their own sources anyway. AFAIK the only ones that do not are the Priest, Druid, Rogue and Fighter... oh and I guess Paladin too kinda.

 

Never been a fan of Cautious Attack either since the attack speed penalty can interfere with Exhortations, Lay on Hands or even consumables. Its a huge hindrance, so I find it never helps at all, especially since my Paladin's DEX is on the lower end of the spectrum. If you want your Paladin to soak damage and nothing else though, you probably want to use it, but I usually want my Paladin to do more than just be a damage sponge.

 

Aegis of Loyalty is ridiculously good, especially with Sacred Immolation. Only reason I didn't take it was because I had Priest to worry about those status effects for me. It works with Disengagement attacks as well, which Confuse does cause a lot of. Also, Swamp Spores are encountered way before you have Prayer against Treason; Dominated is an evil affliction, being able to remove it with minimal effort is a godsend.

 

Deprive the Unworthy is situational. Its especially powerful for a majority of endgame fights, especially the final boss in the main quest line. I run a Wizard and Priest though so I generally skip over it. Arcane Dampener, Wall of Draining and Cleansing Flames all achieve the same thing.

 

Behold the Martyr is actually pretty nice, but yeah I prefer Reviving Exhortation instead. In hindsight though, I probably should've used this on my Chanter anyway, since he did get knocked out a lot T_T

 

Superior Deflection is given, I didn't have any free talent slots for it, but I would've taken it if I could.

 

 

The last thing are the skills. Athletics, Lore and Survival sound interesting for my paladin. Are the Survival bonuses worth it? And how much should I put into Athletics? It seems to be useful for dialog options. And the heal I get might be useful for when I use Sacred Immolation because it does a little damage to me as well. But is it potent enough or just a waste?

Lore seems nice to get a little more options because I am able to use some scrolls as well. How would you guys distribute the skill points?

I usually put 5 points in Athletics, its a good self-heal, especially if my Priest is tied up with other matters. Survival is a given since the healing bonus is very useful for tanking purposes, as KDubya said, 14 Survival will get you a great +60% bonus to healing. Lore is also nice to have as scrolls are very useful through out the entire game. You need 8 points to use a majority of scrolls in the game, 10 if you want every scroll available. I would only invest in Mechanics if you have no one else able to do it. Aloth should be your main man for those, especially since he is gotten very early in the game.

 

Lastly, oddly enough, I actually have 5 points of Stealth in my Paladin. Its actually quite handy, since it allows him to scout ahead and initiate fights by taking out a caster before they notice him with his Arquebus. Also, as a Paladin, he doesn't even care if he gets caught anyway, since he has the bulk to survive on his own for a bit.


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#12
Dr <3

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Actually if i go for a defensive builfe i took also both superior deflection & cautious attack. In the end that 20% malus to speed is barely noticeable for the exortations ( they are all fast to cast anyway) and you don't be the main dps anyway so also for auto attacks is not so painful.
Clearly if you have space just for 1 talent i go for superior deflecion (like other said +3 deflecion are not worth the -20% attack speed generally, but +8 on the top of +5 are ok)
But always consider that like most things in this game is more a question of playstile than anything else, expecially while playing with the full party you will not see big difference between taking it or skipping it.
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