RP boreal dwarf paladin, need some input.

[Jojobobo]

That does sound ideal for the

.

 

EDIT: So I just tried Whispers of Treason against the Forgotten with Sworn Enemy solo PotD, and completely annihilated them level 8. Used +1 movement from survival so I wasn't straight out murdered on their first hit, then used Sworn Enemy on Hassan and let him do my dirty work (scored one crit on him for a 20s duration and two hits for two 12s). Between Hassan, three Envenomed Strikes, two FoDs, the Adra Beetle and the Shades they didn't stand a chance. While this sounds like a lot of per rest resources, considering I didn't need to crack into all my per rest figurines I'd say it wasn't actually that bad.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Jojobobo]

Sorry to double post, but I was thinking more about the mesmer Paladin, and I really do think they're more or less ideally suited for the role. I was thinking about a solo mesmer Rogue, using their per encounter -20 debuffs to achieve the same effect as Sworn Enemy but also with the ability to drop invisibility and watch the enemy tear themselves apart (a classic puppet master/hand behind the throne build) - but it did have a major short-coming, vessels aren't affected by mind control effects. I suppose you could just stealth around vessels (a diplomatic puppet master likely wouldn't want to get their hands dirty anyway) but it feels a bit lame to have such a massive blind spot against an enemy type. Sanctifier may help, especially seeing as I was thinking about dumping Might (doubling down on the idea of the enemy killing itself rather than you doing damage), but still it's underwhelming.

 

You know what Paladins are by contrast good at? Nailing vessels - between Abjuration, Scared Immolation and St. Ydwen's Redeemer they're going to be double dead (plus, you can still take Sanctifier to completely eliminate that blind spot). Sacred Immolation will have great synergy with the high Intellect needed for the mesmer effects, so it really does work well. Really all you need it decent Int and Per, some Mig if you can manage it, and you're done. Take a shield, go full tank, and have a whale of a time. If you're going for that role-playing aspect, as mentioned the Shieldbearers are a perfect fit as they're inherently diplomatic and sounds more diplomatic than convincing enemies to fight for you.

 

Better yet, if you are going solo, most dragons aren't immune to these kind of effects - so by going Hearth Orlan full tank you should be absolutely fine, having defences reasonably far beyond their accuracy. Drawn in Spring and the Outworn Buckler would make short work of them when they're busy trying to kill their chums.

 

I'm currently working on a different altogether more unusual Paladin build, so if anyone wants to develop it it's literally up for grabs. Even if you didn't want to go solo play, I'd think that this build may be better at mesmerising in some respects than the Cipher as you literally have all those resources at your fingertips at the start of a fight rather than having to produce Focus - and you're going to have a great deal more accuracy towards one enemy than they could ever hope for by Sworn Enemy.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Boeroer]

Great. You should really write a build for it.

 

I can also imagine that a fighter with Disciplined Barrage and Munacra Arret, Ring of Changing Heart and Spirit Spiral could play that role very well. Did you test if one handed weapon use also boosts the mind control by +12 ACC? Could lead to a nice one handed aristocratic mesmerizing fighter with Resolution or something.  

[Jojobobo]

It's an interesting idea, and no I haven't tested it - however from previous similar tests I doubt it would benefit form it. I think the whole match +20 accuracy for an entire fight still takes the cake, and I think Paladins are unequivocally better at tanking than Fighters (with Deep Faith +20 to each non-Deflection defence stat and equal Deflection with a single talent - which is a huge deal, great land mark heals with Lay on Hands and Greater LoH if you want it, Liberating Exhortation to eliminate Flanking, etc.). They're monsters.

 

After my current Paladin, I have a solo Rogue I want to try, but if no one has taken up this kind of Paladin after that then I'll give it a go. I would give it a go, but back-to-back Paladins would be a little boring, and while I can console warp to areas and give myself the perks I'd rather play the game and see how it turns out.

[Boeroer]

Right - the fighter I meant wouldn't be a tank - more like a duelist. I imagine putting him in Hand and Key or even Osric's Familiy Armor, giving him Resolution and Munacra Arret first. with Armored Grace and durgan steel the breatplate would be at 5% recovery penalty. Lots of annihilating crits, especially with Disciplined Barrage. He would be more like a great looking dps/offtank.

 

Some spells do get +12 ACC when you wiels a single one handed weapon - why not Whisper of Treason?

[Jojobobo]

No idea, if I get round to trying the build with the aforementioned schedule (solo builds take a long long time ) I'll give it a look. If not, someone else is free to go bananas in the mean time.

[Dr <3]

What spells get +12 accuracy from 1h? I tryed that with my Ice wiz but never observed a clear benefit in spell accuracy. surely not for chill fog

 

Actually i'm a fan of mesmering rogue idea. Considering you start from 30 accuracy ( +5 vs pala) and take reckless assalult ( +8 accuracy) you have the same accuracy of a pala that had trown sworn enemy upon every mob! And without invest a single point in percepion. Heart Orlan for more crits, since you are going to have a lot of friends, actually you can stack 1 charm/encounter, 6 charm rest ( munarca + spiral) , 2 dominate/rest...

Only things bothering me are rogue ridicolous tank capabilities...

Edited August 1, 2016 by Dr <3

[Nemesis7884]

offtank has the advantage that you can use a 2h weapon, your flames of devotion making some damage and therefore being usefull besides the protection spell - then you can also use the triumph skill...this way with lay on hands and the zealous endurance you would have 4 defense enhancing skills...sure your loosing out on the oathsworn buckler...but i kinda like paladin builds with greatswords better than with s&s

 

right now im playing a kind wayfarer with a 2h who heals so much through his special skills that i never need lay on hands nor has my priest anything to do....

 

something like this to keep the overall "defense theme" maybe

 

flames of devotion, shielding flames, zealous endurance, deep flames, lay on hands, shielding touch, inspiring triump, weapon focus, reinforcing exhortion, 2 handed fighting, healing chain, scion of falmes, sacred immolation

 

statwise i probably just pump everything into might, intelligence and resolve...either 16/16/16 and the rest at 10 or pumping perception a bit up like 15/15/15/13

Edited August 2, 2016 by Nemesis7884

[Jojobobo]

What spells get +12 accuracy from 1h? I tryed that with my Ice wiz but never observed a clear benefit in spell accuracy. surely not for chill fog

 

Actually i'm a fan of mesmering rogue idea. Considering you start from 30 accuracy ( +5 vs pala) and take reckless assalult ( +8 accuracy) you have the same accuracy of a pala that had trown sworn enemy upon every mob! And without invest a single point in percepion. Heart Orlan for more crits, since you are going to have a lot of friends, actually you can stack 1 charm/encounter, 6 charm rest ( munarca + spiral) , 2 dominate/rest...

Only things bothering me are rogue ridicolous tank capabilities...

Reckless Assault only affects melee accuracy (not even ranged accuracy, so it's a no go on that front. The base accuracy as you mention is higher, and they can use Sap/Withering Strike/Fearsome Strike for -Will, thereby boosting their accuracy.

 

What I have noticed about a Paladin is you can use Sworn Enemy almost as a prebuff, as in it has a huge range and you can use it to initiate combat, and it's very fast cast. This again gives it a little bit of an edge relative to the Rogue, with attacks being on the whole slower.

 

I guess in party play a mesmer Rogue would still do a decent job, but for solo I doubt it would cut it.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Boeroer]

I tested the fighter with sabre. Nothing for solo, but he did a fine job with Disciplined Barrage + Mind Control and of course he did good damage with his one handed Resolution. On lvl 16 against bounty ogres almost every attack was a crit. The Mind Control spells also all scored crits - but Ogres' will is not too high.

 

Wielding one weapon worked for chanter's offensive chants and I think also for a few invocations - at least it used to do that. Maybe they patched it. I assumed if that works for chanters then it may also work for other classes' spells. But unfortunately, it doesn't work with these mind controls.

His ACC with Disciplined Barrage and the inherent +10 from Whisper of Treason was at something like 130 at lvl 16, with Gallant's Focus, but not counting camping bonus. Enough for most enemies I guess.

 

But now, with the one handed thing not working for spells, I would make a tank out of him and take maybe Little Saviour. His maxed INT also buffs the radius of that shield. Might is not very important, but maybe Overbearing guard would be nice in combination with Measured Restraint - to match the looks and style. Noble monocle wearing fencer with a buckler and a fancy breastplate for the win!

I guess the paladin version is still better - but I have to come up at least with one additional fighter build which is worthwhile... it's really hard.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Boeroer

[Jojobobo]

As far as I'm aware, camping bonuses don't affect spells anyway - so it seems unlikely they'd affect Whisper of Treason, but it's probably worth checking. Or is that what you meant in saying, "not counting camping bonuses", I wasn't sure if that was you saying you knew they didn't work or you just hadn't picked any for the fight?

 

I think the issue with Fighters is that they're a little dull, just having them sit there and do damage doesn't feel very rewarding. I think more unique builds could be made by combining their insane accuracy with spell holdings, but as what would be the best one to work with it's hard to say.

[Boeroer]

I did the one who uses his high ACC and Sundering Blow to alpha-blast tough enemies with minor missiles and a Blunderbuss. He's pretty nice and can tank like a boss because of max regeneration and a large shield. Soloing those ogres is easy for him. But besides that I never had success with any other fighter idea I came up with. They are so limited.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Boeroer

[Dr <3]

I did the one who uses his high ACC and Sundering Blow to alpha-blast tough enemies with minor missiles and a Blunderbuss. He's pretty nice and can tank like a boss because of max regeneration and a large shield. Soloing those ogres is easy for him. But besides that I never had success with any other fighter idea I came up with. They are so limited.

Poor Andrea Colombo...

 

@jojobobo: thks for the note. I always thought that reckless assalult was a straight +8 in accuracy, i never noticed was restricted to melee.

So paladin will have the edge, also for massive takyness compared to rogue.

When i will be back from holydays i want to try this "Prince charming" build...

[Jojobobo]

@jojobobo: thks for the note. I always thought that reckless assalult was a straight +8 in accuracy, i never noticed was restricted to melee.

I could be totally wrong on this, but I think it used to be a general +8 to accuracy and then they changed it. Probably thought the alpha strikes people were getting from arquebuses were a little much.

[Loren Tyr]

I wouldn't say Fighters are limited, they're just more of an allrounder. You can build them across the range from tanky to DPS, and would do fine in a ranged role as well. They just don't really have the same kind of stand-out, 'build-around-able' abilities or characteristics that make for a clearly defined build as such, I think. I mean, with the Constant Recovery and such you can do a troll-like regenerator build, but that's essentially just a way of being extra tank-ish (and it's something any Fighter is always half-way doing by default anyway). So yeah, Fighters don't lend themselves to the uniquest of build in that regard, they're more the bread in the sandwich. Not really the exciting part, but without it you'd just have a pile of meat and condiments on a plate.

 

Survival does affect some spells by the way, but only the ones that are implemented as AttackMelee or AttackRanged (the same spells are also affected by Vulnerable Attack and Penetrating Shot, respectively). This is generally single-target damage stuff like Jolting Touch and Necrotic Lance. Having said that, peeking into the internals of Enigma's Charm this seems for some reason to be implemented as an AttackMelee as well. This suggests that it actually would be able to get a Survival accuracy boost.

[Boeroer]

Cool, thanks for the info.

 

By the way I meant other fighter builds besides the ones that already are on the list, including Andrea Colombo's Lady of Pain + variants.

And with limited I meant that it's very difficult to put a nice twist or something special "out of the box" to a fighter. No "Spells on Deathblows", "Spelltongue + Carnage", "Battle Forged + Turning Wheel" stuff that makes you think "sweeeet!".

Sure, you can build them towards dps, support and tank, with a bit of CC. But it's mostly all single target melee and survivability abiliites. When you try to build a ranged fighter (because he's one of the few classes that can have dmg mods on ranged weapons) you run into the problem that at lvl up there sometimes isn't any ability that contributes to ranged combat at all. You end up taking Critical Defense or something like that because the rest is all melee only. That's a bit sad. Monk had the same problem until OBS introduced The Long Pain.

 

When you look at the build index you get an impression which classes can be build very differently and which can't (without being lame). Only chanters seem to be an exception - I think they can be build in many ways and be successful - no idea why there are only two of them in the list.