Will deck 4 be released next week

[King_Momo]

They have not announced when ad4 can come out, so no need for apologies. It can take some weeks or some months. Who knows, but there is no any information about when it should be released. They will, when They know. One good reason would be need to rewrite some basic rutines. Sometimes it can be better to make some new code that repair old.

No need for apologies? It has been ONE month since Flounder, one of the developers, said ADs 4, 5 and 6 would come along faster because of new 'processes' they have in place. Add to the fact that AD4 was originally advertised for June. ONE month later and all we get is more 'treasure' we can unlock, half of which cannot even be used yet. And still no concrete date for AD4. Everything's in the air and there's an entire thread on these forums discussing the future of the game. There is PLENTY to apologise for!

[RedPred]

I think they just started to re-code some old lines of the game and it takes time cause there are really a lot of problems at the moment.

So if that is true, then the waiting time will be worth and we ll have a great solid game with new solid expansions in the end.

[Borissimo]

Let me start by saying that I adore this game and am eternally grateful to Obsidian for making it. I also think that as far as the game itself goes, it's remarkably well done. The art, interface, dialogue, extras that they choice to add (difficulty levels, quest mode, treasure, some card changes) have all been spot on.

 

Now, with that being said.

 

One can say without hyperbole that, on this project, Obsidian has literally never met a single deadline. Here's the rough history, as best I can remember:

 

- "It's coming Q1 of 2015!"

- "It's DEFINITELY coming in the fall of 2015!"

- "It's coming in March 29 of 2016!"

- "It's coming in April 26 of 2016! For real this time!" (still missed by a few days)

- "AD3 is coming in one month!" (missed by about a week, if I remember right, and unforgivably bug-ridden)

- "AD4 is coming in June!"

 

So let's take stock of the current situation. It's July 25 and AD4, which was supposed to come out in June thanks to the "faster processes" Obsidian had in place after AD3, continues to reside in a state of nonexistence. It's a safe bet that July will end without a release date for this module.

 

Now Obsidian comes along and says, "We have faster processes now that will make AD5 and AD6 come out much faster!" Do you believe them? No logical person should. If Obsidian is right about this, it would literally be the first time they were ever right about anything pertaining to the game's release schedule. Now to be clear: that doesn't guarantee they're wrong. They could be right, in which case, bravo to them! Truly! But if we're speculating as to what will happen in the future, all we can do -- right now, as speculators -- is base our guesses on the historical facts available to us in the present, and it's pretty clear what hypothesis those facts point to: that AD's 5 and 6 will not, in fact, come out any faster than anything else up to this point.

 

AD4 will come out in August if we're lucky, and then (if our luck holds!) AD5 in October and AD6 in December. I don't think it's reasonable to expect anything else from Obsidian. Again, I'm not villainizing them. No developer is perfect. In Obsidian's case, they're amazing at making games but awful at giving accurate release dates. They always have an excuse ("some bugs popped up at the last minute," "there's an office move," etc), but if someone's always making excuses for something, eventually you have to realize that the fault lies with them. Obsidian is clearly either bad at not putting bugs in their game, bad at finding those bugs in time, or bad at acknowledging their shortcomings in the bug department and adjusting their release expectations accordingly. If they always set their release dates too soon and then always fail to meet those deadlines due to "last-minute bugs," then they clearly aren't learning the lesson that there will always be last-minute bugs and adding an appropriate buffer to their release schedule.

 

And having said all that, I think that Obsidian has nothing to apologize for. They're doing the best they can on a hard project, and a year from now, none of us will care about the fact that everything came out late. What we will care about is the fact that Obsidian did the job right and that the game's amazing. I think that asking Obsidian for an apology is honesty childish. I'm assuming most of us have already paid $25 and will not pay any more; thus, from our vantage, Obsidian is essentially working their asses off to make a game for us for free. When someone does that for you, you don't demand apologies no matter how late they are.

 

And I think the "state of the game" thread is total baloney. Obsidian's working out the kinks on this tablet version. When it's finished, they'll release it on Steam and it'll be a huge hit because it will be polished right out of the gate and the releases will come much more quickly. I truly don't think Obsidian ever expected to recoup their investment in the tablet market; this is just a dry run for them to knead out all the snags so that the Steam version is flawless when it hits. That's where their money is going to come from.

[King_Momo]

Let me start by saying that I adore this game and am eternally grateful to Obsidian for making it. I also think that as far as the game itself goes, it's remarkably well done. The art, interface, dialogue, extras that they choice to add (difficulty levels, quest mode, treasure, some card changes) have all been spot on.

 

Now, with that being said.

 

One can say without hyperbole that, on this project, Obsidian has literally never met a single deadline. Here's the rough history, as best I can remember:

 

- "It's coming Q1 of 2015!"

- "It's DEFINITELY coming in the fall of 2015!"

- "It's coming in March 29 of 2016!"

- "It's coming in April 26 of 2016! For real this time!" (still missed by a few days)

- "AD3 is coming in one month!" (missed by about a week, if I remember right, and unforgivably bug-ridden)

- "AD4 is coming in June!"

 

So let's take stock of the current situation. It's July 25 and AD4, which was supposed to come out in June thanks to the "faster processes" Obsidian had in place after AD3, continues to reside in a state of nonexistence. It's a safe bet that July will end without a release date for this module.

 

Now Obsidian comes along and says, "We have faster processes now that will make AD5 and AD6 come out much faster!" Do you believe them? No logical person should. If Obsidian is right about this, it would literally be the first time they were ever right about anything pertaining to the game's release schedule. Now to be clear: that doesn't guarantee they're wrong. They could be right, in which case, bravo to them! Truly! But if we're speculating as to what will happen in the future, all we can do -- right now, as speculators -- is base our guesses on the historical facts available to us in the present, and it's pretty clear what hypothesis those facts point to: that AD's 5 and 6 will not, in fact, come out any faster than anything else up to this point.

 

AD4 will come out in August if we're lucky, and then (if our luck holds!) AD5 in October and AD6 in December. I don't think it's reasonable to expect anything else from Obsidian. Again, I'm not villainizing them. No developer is perfect. In Obsidian's case, they're amazing at making games but awful at giving accurate release dates. They always have an excuse ("some bugs popped up at the last minute," "there's an office move," etc), but if someone's always making excuses for something, eventually you have to realize that the fault lies with them. Obsidian is clearly either bad at not putting bugs in their game, bad at finding those bugs in time, or bad at acknowledging their shortcomings in the bug department and adjusting their release expectations accordingly. If they always set their release dates too soon and then always fail to meet those deadlines due to "last-minute bugs," then they clearly aren't learning the lesson that there will always be last-minute bugs and adding an appropriate buffer to their release schedule.

 

And having said all that, I think that Obsidian has nothing to apologize for. They're doing the best they can on a hard project, and a year from now, none of us will care about the fact that everything came out late. What we will care about is the fact that Obsidian did the job right and that the game's amazing. I think that asking Obsidian for an apology is honesty childish. I'm assuming most of us have already paid $25 and will not pay any more; thus, from our vantage, Obsidian is essentially working their asses off to make a game for us for free. When someone does that for you, you don't demand apologies no matter how late they are.

 

And I think the "state of the game" thread is total baloney. Obsidian's working out the kinks on this tablet version. When it's finished, they'll release it on Steam and it'll be a huge hit because it will be polished right out of the gate and the releases will come much more quickly. I truly don't think Obsidian ever expected to recoup their investment in the tablet market; this is just a dry run for them to knead out all the snags so that the Steam version is flawless when it hits. That's where their money is going to come from.

 

To summarise - Obsidian is lying to their customers or just plain incompetent. And whether or not apologies are due, I'm sure we'll get one soon.

[RedPred]

I think that the tablet market as an enormous potential. Almost every big company has already titles in the store (and not for free) with high reuse of games of a decade ago. And new titles are coming out every week.

Probably this is a matter of organization because this could be their first Android project (with a business partnership), so the quality and scheduling are quite significant.

Also the community quickly loved the game and started an heavy stress test on every single line of code and input combination.

Personally I simply think the game is a beta release, then after the final revision the game will be one the best rpg board-game of any digital store for years! 

[PinkRose]

Borissimo, well said.

And in case it was missed, Flounder replied in this thread here.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/88314-status-on-ad4/?p=1830731

 

TL.DR; August for AD4. One more patch before that. 

[Decius]

To be perfectly honest (and a little cynical) ... I'm not the slightest bit shocked that the role cards are jacked. For starters, you can only put one power feat into a role card before AD4 is out, so I bet a lot of the feats beyond the first aren't even implemented yet.

 

I haven't found any that don't work, and I've taken more than a few characters into a party that carried them through AD3 first, then went back for B-2 to get the power feats.

 

My guess is one of the the problems with AD4 is that if you don't complete 3 you can run out of available power feats.

[Doppelschwert]

I think they will be present at GenCon, which takes place over the weekend, to promote the game.

Until the end of next week, I wouldn't expect any patch.

[PRuano]

And having said all that, I think that Obsidian has nothing to apologize for. They're doing the best they can on a hard project, and a year from now, none of us will care about the fact that everything came out late. What we will care about is the fact that Obsidian did the job right and that the game's amazing. I think that asking Obsidian for an apology is honesty childish. I'm assuming most of us have already paid $25 and will not pay any more; thus, from our vantage, Obsidian is essentially working their asses off to make a game for us for free. When someone does that for you, you don't demand apologies no matter how late they are.

I agreed with everything you said up to this point, after that couldnt disagree more.

 

i did pay the $25, as i bought the physical game before, loved the game, couldt stand the long setup and teardown, shelved it, was excited when they announced the digital game that would fix that, agonized at the several delays, loved the first release, wanted to support the development and prefer the classic premium model, so payed for the bundle but getting more disappointed as time goes by for all the reasons you said before.

 

Obsidian is not "essentially working their asses off to make a game for us for free" for those who paid, they are just delivering what was paid for, in season type release, and failing at that.

 

And honestly, i dont believe most paid the $25 for the game, i think most went the (horrible trend IMHO of) F2P way, just look at all the posts on how best to play it that way there are in these forums; the problem was, Osidian was WAY WAY too generous and made things too easy for getting a lot (if not most) of the content by that way, thus failing to monetize on that (F2P is still a business strategy for commercial digital content, and a tricky one at that, its not freeware), which obviously impacts development, both of this and future sets, which right now honestly dont see happening sadly.

 

 

And I think the "state of the game" thread is total baloney. Obsidian's working out the kinks on this tablet version. When it's finished, they'll release it on Steam and it'll be a huge hit because it will be polished right out of the gate and the releases will come much more quickly. I truly don't think Obsidian ever expected to recoup their investment in the tablet market; this is just a dry run for them to knead out all the snags so that the Steam version is flawless when it hits. That's where their money is going to come from.

Ya, but those of us who paid $25 dont particularly appreciate paying good money (and $25 is good money for a non AAA digital game, even more so in mobile than PC, not even Square goes that high) to be beta testers for a version which will most likely come out cheaper at release or be early discounted.

 

And that PC money will, AT MOST, recoup losses, not fund future development for the other sets.

 

I didnt agree at first (and still dont for the most part) with that thread views, but Obsidian must REALLY get their act together, or those predictions will come to pass.

[RedPred]

For sure if the game wasn't f2p with optional p2unlock, still there should be the same number of paying players and none of f2p.

Simply all the f2p tried the game for a while then leaved cause low content, low rating and high bugs...

 

But I understand why you are angry. Personally I prefer to try something before to buy it for that reason. A car, a chair or a software are the same. Problem is they are spending few time on this project for more complex and bigger and valuable pc software I fear.. 

 

Anyway, if you love the game as you say, think to make it available all over the world to have the largest community of players playing together. That will be great and many more players of a bigger community also will pay for the game to have everything unlocked. Me too in the end, as they release the multiplayer feature.

But again, half content and too many bugs at the moment. We have to wait 2017..

[Ripe]

 

To be perfectly honest (and a little cynical) ... I'm not the slightest bit shocked that the role cards are jacked. For starters, you can only put one power feat into a role card before AD4 is out, so I bet a lot of the feats beyond the first aren't even implemented yet.

I haven't found any that don't work, and I've taken more than a few characters into a party that carried them through AD3 first, then went back for B-2 to get the power feats.

 

My guess is one of the the problems with AD4 is that if you don't complete 3 you can run out of available power feats.

 

I wonder if they'll just go on and implement solution for that issue (running out of available power/card feats) which Paizo came up with for Wrath of the Righteous considering most people used all 12 power feats there. It might be a bit more work now but it would solve a lot of issues later on...

[PRuano]

For sure if the game wasn't f2p with optional p2unlock, still there should be the same number of paying players and none of f2p.

Simply all the f2p tried the game for a while then leaved cause low content, low rating and high bugs...

 

But I understand why you are angry. Personally I prefer to try something before to buy it for that reason. A car, a chair or a software are the same. Problem is they are spending few time on this project for more complex and bigger and valuable pc software I fear.. 

 

Anyway, if you love the game as you say, think to make it available all over the world to have the largest community of players playing together. That will be great and many more players of a bigger community also will pay for the game to have everything unlocked. Me too in the end, as they release the multiplayer feature.

But again, half content and too many bugs at the moment. We have to wait 2017..

Not sure if you were replying to my post.

 

I dont have too much of a prob that is fremium (its normal these days on mobile, got used to it, at least they have a full content unlock), and none whatsoever with season type releases (which usually means not all content delivered upfront).

 

Its only when the fremium system is badly implemented in that it gives "freeloaders" too much without an incentive to contribute somewhat (either through in-app payments or add revenue) that it starts to disrupt the return and consequently the development of the game itself that i have a problem with, particularly since premium costumers (read as having paid the $25), are the most affected, both by having longer waits between content (which they actually paid for and in advance) and because some of the development resources need to be directed to fixing the F2P part (the first patch was mainly for that, if i recall), thus even less resources for game bug fixing and content.

 

And as for try before buy, im all for it, but that was already possible before f2p, with demo versions, lite versions and shareware, you just didnt "try" the entire game (and im not counting extra content, or difficult levels in that definition of entire game).

[RedPred]

Yes, I m agree. 25 $/€ is a lot for a game, as a full game for pc or consoles. All players that have already paid the full price need more attention and technical support. As f2p player I can't ask for that. But you all who already paid full price since months, you can for sure. They already closed beta and scheduled content delivery every month since then. That isn't correct with you.

 

I don't think there is a f2p part, in the end a player who slowly unlock chars could still buy treasury chests for the same price or more.

Edited August 4, 2016 by RedPred

[PRuano]

I don't think there is a f2p part, in the end a player who slowly unlock chars could still buy treasury chests for the same price or more.

Of course there is, with the gold farming to buy chars , adventures and chests (which premium also need to get gold for, but no prob for me there, consider it extra content and an incentive to play more).

 

The new gold distribution by team members was also clearly another step in fixing the system, but also meant resources directed to fix the F2P system and not bugs.

[RedPred]

 

I don't think there is a f2p part, in the end a player who slowly unlock chars could still buy treasury chests for the same price or more.

Of course there is, with the gold farming to buy chars , adventures and chests (which premium also need to get gold for, but no prob for me there, consider it extra content and an incentive to play more).

 

The new gold distribution by team members was also clearly another step in fixing the system, but also meant resources directed to fix the F2P system and not bugs.

 

 

No mate, the gold system is to maintain players for long term through chests to unlock cards (with a casual extraction). It would still be there if game was p2p.

If you buy the bundle you unlock chars, (available) ADx, deck C+P, nothing more. Still you have to play hundreds of hours to collect cards and gold to buy chests to collect missing cards.

 

If you buy the bundle in practice you save 30 hours to collect chars and unlock the others AD. Nothing more cause I m not interested at all in C+P decks.

I played repeating scenarios with 2 chars, then with 3, then with 4 then with 6 chars and I unlocked in the meantime the ADs. That because I hadn't good equipped cards, the same of you! So it's very funny because it's the same thing I would have done if I had bought the bundle...

 

The only difference is the use of first amount of gold, cause p2p got chests while f2p got unlocks. But at the moment I m getting 2 chests every single hour farming gold... but if you can do better with C+P decks I'm listening..

 

Without gold system you could only buy treasury chests (with 4 casual cards inside) for real money, like a slot machine... and also if I m a developer I hate those *** casino applications and who develop them..

Then look the prices: 9.000 gold for 10+ €, 20.000 for 21+ €... So, gold system is for every normal player who plays this game for fun! You are the only one to think it's for f2p players only.

 

Also, the only patches I have seen were:

- to solve 10 (ten) progression breaks (good only 50 remaining), 1 login issue and stuff with chests

- to solve an issue 'that is revoking your purchase of RotR bundle'

 

That doesn't seem for f2p players at all. Try reading the patch specifications next time....

Edited August 5, 2016 by RedPred

[PRuano]

 

 

I don't think there is a f2p part, in the end a player who slowly unlock chars could still buy treasury chests for the same price or more.

 

Of course there is, with the gold farming to buy chars , adventures and chests (which premium also need to get gold for, but no prob for me there, consider it extra content and an incentive to play more).

The new gold distribution by team members was also clearly another step in fixing the system, but also meant resources directed to fix the F2P system and not bugs.

 

No mate, the gold system is to maintain players for long term through chests to unlock cards (with a casual extraction). It would still be there if game was p2p.

Please read what i said:

.... and chests (which premium also need to get gold for, but no prob for me there, consider it extra content and an incentive to play more).

 

I never said it was ONLY for f2p, but IT IS a monetization system mainly directed for f2p, since farming is one of the 2 main f2p base systems, the other being timers (non-existent in this game), and the resource farmed IS gold.

 

If you buy the bundle you unlock chars, (available) ADx, deck C+P, nothing more. Still you have to play hundreds of hours to collect cards and gold to buy chests to collect missing cards.

 

If you buy the bundle in practice you save 30 hours to collect chars and unlock the others AD. Nothing more cause I m not interested at all in C+P decks.

I played repeating scenarios with 2 chars, then with 3, then with 4 then with 6 chars and I unlocked in the meantime the ADs. That because I hadn't good equipped cards, the same of you! So it's very funny because it's the same thing I would have done if I had bought the bundle...

 

The only difference is the use of first amount of gold, cause p2p got chests while f2p got unlocks. But at the moment I m getting 2 chests every single hour farming gold... but if you can do better with C+P decks I'm listening..

 

Ok, now im confused, first you say theres no f2p above, then you say there is. Which is it?

 

And bty, 30+ hours to unlock content is for me insane, you can finish entire games in that timeframe. But then again, thats whats makes sense to (and is the basis of) f2p, and why its not for me.

 

But you just proved my point about f2p and gold in this game, i think.

 

Without gold system you could only buy treasury chests (with 4 casual cards inside) for real money, like a slot machine... and also if I m a developer I hate those *** casino applications and who develop them.

 

Really?! You never played a trading card game before?! Same system, nothing to do with f2p.

 

Then look the prices: 9.000 gold for 10+ €, 20.000 for 21+ €... So, gold system is for every normal player who plays this game for fun! You are the only one to think it's for f2p players only.

 

Again, above.

 

And the normal game (without treasure) is whats in the physical boardgame, treasure cards are from either class decks or made up for the digital game, you dont need it to win the game (thank god theres no p2w).

 

Its good and fun to have, sure, and also attracts the completist type of gamer (which i wouldnt call normal, as in average player) but they can be crucial to f2p, since they usually have better value than basic ones, and so give a leg up on farming. Again all part of the monetization system based on the existing resource, gold.

 

And again, nothing against it from a premium point of view, just consider it extra content (like dlcs).

 

 

Also, the only patches I have seen were:

- to solve 10 (ten) progression breaks (good only 50 remaining), 1 login issue and stuff with chests

- to solve an issue 'that is revoking your purchase of RotR bundle'

 

That doesn't seem for f2p players at all. Try reading the patch specifications next time....

You should look again:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/86626-update-patch-102-submitted/?p=1807478

 

- daily gold is a honey pot for f2p but was broken

- Quests is the main gateway for farming and was broken

- fixed specific bug regarding gold exploit (the one thing i remembered, and i know theres been more

 

Also check further posts on that thread, most dealing with farming

 

In between, bugs from the actual game (read story and even quests) still linger unresolved, having lower fix priority.

 

And also this:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/86626-update-patch-102-submitted/?do=findComment&comment=1807711

 

which resulted so far, at least, in adjustments to earned gold in quests by party size (requiring much more grinding to early farming).

 

Bottom line is, f2p requires constant adjustments even for well implemented systems, and that takes resources to fix bugs and implement new content; double so when the system is not well adjusted from the start, which makes those issues higher priority and lowering other bug issues (which as we know, are plentiful and just increase with each AD and treasure card bundles).

[RedPred]

 

 

 

You just missed the patch note 1.0.3.5 and the hotfix 1.0.3.6 that I reported as the only patches I have seen in the month I m playing...

But you still can, they are pinned in the top of the Announcements and News. You can look at them and found the 10 point with the issues fixed and the clear correction of p2p purchase function... 

 

But you got the historic patch 1.0.2 of May 6th (also reported 2 times)....

So:

1) learn to read date

2) learn don't miss update/patch/hotfix

3) learn to read the specifications

4) learn to understand the software specification

5) learn to look around yourself, you are still the only one who says treasure chests and gold are features for f2p players only... So have we to pay money to have chests or better to pay to unlock every card in the game at the beginning? Your thesis have sense only in your mind...

Edited August 5, 2016 by RedPred

[PRuano]

 

 

You just missed the patch note 1.0.3.5 and the hotfix 1.0.3.6 that I reported as the only patches I have seen in the month I m playing...

But you still can, they are pinned in the top of the Announcements and News. You can look at them and found the 10 point with the issues fixed and the clear correction of p2p purchase function...

 

But you got the historic patch 1.0.2 of May 6th (also reported 2 times)....

So:

1) learn to read date

2) learn don't miss update/patch/hotfix

3) learn to read the specifications

4) learn to understand the software specification

5) learn to look around yourself, you are still the only one who says treasure chests are f2p features... So have we to pay money to have chests or better to pay to unlock every card in the game at the beginning? Your thesis have sense only in your mind...

Sorry, its clearly you who has the blinds on, probably on purpose to suit your needs.

 

1) learn to read, period. I clearly stated FIRST PATCH which was 1.0.2 (not obviously the later ones, so probably its also you who needs to learn to read dates - hint: 2016/07/12 AFTER 2016/05/06).

 

And those links were NOT the same nor had the same intent, the first pointed to the patch thread, with the patch changes, the second to a SPECIFIC post BY AN OBSIDIAN DEVELOPER stating the changes i was talking about (thought it was clear, check them again, check the URLs).

 

2) it was you who missed 1.0.2 AND the much more recent quest gold reward changes

 

3 and 4) im a software developer, i know how to read specs. Do you?

 

5) gave ample proof of it, also recommend you instruct yourself on f2p, so you know what you are talking about and see the big picture

 

But since clearly you have no interest in doing so, this conversation is getting negative and since we are already WAY off topic, im done with it.

Edited August 5, 2016 by PRuano

[RedPred]

 

 

Again, in your mind. They never said that gold and chests are features only for f2p players.. in none post or comment..  unbelievable..