Bug? : Arcane armor by non arcane character got buried, not banished

[_Harwin_]

Scenario power:  If you discard cards to a combat check, bury one of those cards.

 

I took 2 damage and cast "Arcane Armor" with Lini (who is a Divine caster, not Arcane).  The card ended up being buried.

 

1) This doesn't feel like a "discard" to me - it feels like a cast.  So I don't think it should ever have been buried, even if cast by someone like Ezren.

2) Even if it should be buried, it feels like the "banish" should take precedence - I used the spell, I'm not an arcane caster, it should be gone.

 

 

[ArchSenex]

For #1 I disagree.  The methods of "playing" cards are more well-defined in this game.  Discarding, revealing, banishing, burying, they are all "playing".  There's no "casting" type of action, so as far as the rule state-engine agrees, Discarding a card for it's effect is the same as discarding a card for a cost (damage).

 

Now, for #2, things get weird... because the game probably isn't sure if you're Discarding to cast, or discarding as damage (because you can discard a card for the damage without it's effect).  For brevity, the game ALWAYS assumes you are discarding damage absorb spells for their effect, rather than just to discard them as damage.

 

 

Now, I agree, there's a bug here.  One of the pillar rules of the game is "Complete one thing before you start another" which means that you should finish processing the Arcane armor card, and arrive at Banish, before you look at the Scenario powers.  So you're correct that, overall, the card should have been banished.  If an arcane person had discarded the card for effect, then you should finish the effect, arrive at discard, and then immediately bury it because of the scenario power.

[_Harwin_]

Here's why I think I'm right about #1 -

 

It says "if I discard it as damage".

I didn't discard it as damage.  I discarded it and "prevented" 2 damage.

 

So I actually took *zero* damage.

[ArchSenex]

I'd actually have to see how the scenario power is worded.  If it is "Discard it as damage" then you're right (the first post just said "to combat check" although that's a pretty silly concept, now that I think about it, as lots of cards are discarded to combat checks).

 

I think internally, the game just processes that you have X incoming damage, stores the current amount of damage in a variable Y and shield spells subtract Z from Y, so I see why the game works that way, but you're correct that they would need to subtract Z from X (and therefore Y) instead.

 

Now.. they might just have to adjust the phrasing on the scenario power to include cards discarded to prevent damage, which is probably more their intent.

[Longshot11]

1) This doesn't feel like a "discard" to me - it feels like a cast.  So I don't think it should ever have been buried, even if cast by someone like Ezren.

2) Even if it should be buried, it feels like the "banish" should take precedence - I used the spell, I'm not an arcane caster, it should be gone.

You're correct on both accounts.

 

Incidentally, the Arcane Armor spells could benefit from being reworded as "Display this card to prevent X damage...". Otherwise, when you get the prompt "Discard X" due to damage, and then you select the Armor spell - you should get 2 separate buttons "Discard for damage" and "discard for effect" which is obviously not a good idea. 

Edited May 31, 2016 by Longshot11

[_Harwin_]

Good point that you should see both discards.

I might have wanted to discard for damage so that it wouldn't get banished and could be passed to an arcane caster after the scenario was over.

 

But I'm not sure "display" works.  With display - suppose I take 1 damage now and 1 damage later - can arcane add up to prevent both?

This isn't like Mirror Image.

[ArchSenex]

Good point that you should see both discards.

I might have wanted to discard for damage so that it wouldn't get banished and could be passed to an arcane caster after the scenario was over.

 

But I'm not sure "display" works.  With display - suppose I take 1 damage now and 1 damage later - can arcane add up to prevent both?

This isn't like Mirror Image.

Presumably at the end of the card process, the display would turn into a discard/banish/recharge, but overall it might make the most sense to split the "take damage" step into two steps, first is "Reduce Damage" where you can PLAY cards, be it to discard, banish, bury, recharge, etc. (spells and armor) and the second step is "Take Damage" where you discard cards because you are damaged.  That way, if you want to just use an armor/spell etc. as a Hit Point and not for effect, you skip the first.